FourtyTwo Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Liam O'Rourke said: See, I think my perspective is a little different to most, in that I don't see this massive need to put the belt on Braun. It would be cool, and I'm not against it either, but to me Braun is a guy like Kane - he's the guy that gets the awesome build, but he's not the top star because his makeup make it impossible for him to be. The unstoppable machine is never the top guy, he's the guy that gets fed to the top guy. So much of Braun is that he's a product of great booking, being paired with Roman at the right time and being good in the role. I just don't know that if you strip that away and make him the centrepiece that he's got enough on his own as champion. Because what does he do once he's got it? The only new match he has that's top guy worthy is Joe. For the feeding of the monster to the top guy to really be effective, don't you need the monster to be champion and the top guy to (at that point) be the challenger? Otherwise, you end up with a situation where no-on cares about the next monster, as the top guy will just topple them as well.  Heel champ, face chasing = WM moment IMO. Edit - or what Pat said Edited September 19, 2017 by FourtyTwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted September 19, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted September 19, 2017 45 minutes ago, Liam O'Rourke said: Because what does he do once he's got it? Become a top main event level superstar champion that makes the company loads of money. Why would that be a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator Onyx2 Posted September 19, 2017 Awards Moderator Share Posted September 19, 2017 40 minutes ago, BomberPat said: It's going to be a weird non-finish that protects both men, but I don't think it'll screw Strowman over like Ryback, if only because Lesnar's not a guy they're going to do that kind of screwjob ending with - far more likely we get an elaborate ring breaking spot, or both of them taking a huge bump to make it a no contest or whatever. I'm curious how we get there, whatever the result. That's a key factor, that Lesnar 2.0 has never been shy to demand a finish booked a certain way to leave money on the table for a rematch. See Goldberg or Undertaker. I see Lesnar retaining but by a technicality - double count-out (a good one, hopefully), or ref stoppage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam O'Rourke Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, FourtyTwo said: For the feeding of the monster to the top guy to really be effective, don't you need the monster to be champion and the top guy to (at that point) be the challenger? Otherwise, you end up with a situation where no-on cares about the next monster, as the top guy will just topple them as well. Heel champ, face chasing = WM moment IMO. Edit - or what Pat said That's the scenario that can work (as I said, I'm not against it), but they've done such a weird job with this that I don't think people are going to see him as the heel. And you know who that face chasing is going to be... 2 hours ago, LaGoosh said: Become a top main event level superstar champion that makes the company loads of money. Why would that be a bad thing? That's a different role though. Right now, Strowman is the guy the top main event level superstars have to deal with that smashes through people until he gets stopped. Once he becomes the centrepiece, the dynamic changes. Not saying it's bad, but it's not going to be what it is right now, which is what's got him over to this degree. Guys challenging him, not him being the challenge, isn't that appetizing if they don't have the opponents to face him. Joe is there, so there's that. I just think that when people talk about Strowman being a big star that can break out, they might be missing that this entire build isn't to position him as the star, it's to position the guy that beats him. While I don't oppose the idea of going with the hot hand, they better have a plan if they do because the tools they used to get him to this point can't be used with the top star. Strowman is hyper-protected to destroy everyone, come out on top in every angle, destroy and make people look like they have no chance. That's great as the rising threat, the feared challenger, it's shit for the top guy to do to challengers in terms of creating intrigue, and once you have other people doing it to him, does it hurt his whole allure? It's not like he's going to be able to talk his way out of bad booking - until the big push started he was dead in the water. Edited September 19, 2017 by Liam O'Rourke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted September 19, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) I don't think it's shit. What's more exciting than an unbeatable monster champion that everyone on the roster has to attempt to conquer? That creates intrigue. Its wrestling booking 101. Look at Mark Henry's fucking brilliant title reign from (I think) 2011 for an example of how it can work. Them perhaps not having enough challengers at the moment is the wrong reason not to make him Champion. He's a main event wrestler and main event wrestlers need to win the title. And at the moment, what better options are there? Edited September 19, 2017 by LaGoosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam O'Rourke Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 As a short term thing it's fine, but the example you give I think fits my reasoning - Henry's actual title run was only three months, and the best part of it was having the perfect underdog challenger in Daniel Bryan, or a 'superfight' style challenger like Big Show where you can do unique things. 20 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: Them perhaps not having enough challengers at the moment is the wrong reason not to make him Champion. He's a main event wrestler and main event wrestlers need to win the title. And at the moment, what better options are there? For most people, that's right, if you're pushing a star to carry the promotion, then that guy should hold the title. But that's where I have my doubts because that's not Braun, he's been pushed so strong because you pay it off with a loss. He absolutely needs the right challengers because the booking is so important to the character. Henry's case is the perfect example. The monster champion could be cool with him killing everyone, few people having a chance, the right underdogs coming close but failing. But Booking 101, as you put it, has the right babyface in the right place to climb this mountain, and they aren't close to having that either. Point is, even the best argument for Braun winning the title is for him to put somebody else over in the end, not the guy to be the next big star, and if that's all he'll be, does it mean more to beat Braun than Brock? If so, do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted September 19, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) But I think Braun is the next big star. And a big title reign is the way to cement it. Perhaps that's where our opinions differ. What other options are there? Except to continue with a part time Brock who drops it to Roman in a few months and no one gives a shit? Edited September 19, 2017 by LaGoosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourtyTwo Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Liam O'Rourke said: Right now, Strowman is the guy the top main event level superstars have to deal with that smashes through people until he gets stopped. Once he becomes the centrepiece, the dynamic changes. Not saying it's bad, but it's not going to be what it is right now, which is what's got him over to this degree. I would agree that the dynamic changes, but the alternative come Monday is that he's lost to Lesnar, loses the aura and momentum, and needs to be "repaired" in some way to get people behind him again. And in that scenario, there is a big shift in dynamic, as well as potentially pissing off fans who have gotten behind the push.  The only way out of this is, as others have said, some kind of controversial finish, but if Lesnar is off PPV duty until the Rumble, can you really justify keeping the belt on him that long without him being around? As LaGoosh says, the alternative appears to be dropping the belt to Reigns - is that really a better option as thing stand now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted September 20, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) 17 hours ago, FourtyTwo said: The only way out of this is, as others have said, some kind of controversial finish, but if Lesnar is off PPV duty until the Rumble, can you really justify keeping the belt on him that long without him being around? As LaGoosh says, the alternative appears to be dropping the belt to Reigns - is that really a better option as thing stand now? For me, and although I despise controversial finishes when they aren't required, sometimes they are needed for the bigger picture. Preference - Braun wins the title on Sunday, Brock fucks off for a while due to Braun nacking him. Reigns can beat Braun at WM next year, possible interference from a returning Brock. (Doesn't have to have that ending though). If Brock is due to keep the belt this weekend he realistically should keep it until Reigns at WM. This means something important needs to happen with Braun in the meantime. Either another high level feud starts in time for survivor series, or Braun is off TV for a while. Either he attempts a high risk move which backfires against Brock, or he loses, kicks off with GM and gets suspended etc. He then returns possibly at the rumble and causes shit. I honestly don't know for sure, however, I just don't want him bouncing about ultimately doing nowt while we all wait for Brock Reigns at WM. Edited September 20, 2017 by Kaz Hayashi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybgoode82 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 I think the middle ground may be Braun winning the belt by absolutely destroying Lesnar on Sunday, stretcher job, the works. Brock returns for the Rumble and has his rematch against Heyman's wishes and wins the belt back. I would prefer AJ to win the Rumble and face Nakamura and Reigns wins perhaps Elimination Chamber to get the title shot at Mania. Braun gets to either win the battle royal at Mania or they do a cross-promotional stinker with Baron Corbin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members GlennCullen Posted September 20, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted September 20, 2017 Lucha Underground has the blueprint for how to book your monster as champion. Hoping WWE pull the trigger on Strowman and borrow liberally from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonworden Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 For me Braun should win and take lesnar out for a few months. In the mean time he could take on Baylor at survivor series (do non demon Balor the pov before if they have one). Perhaps a multi man Tlc and a rematch with Roman. Have the announcers hype up the impossible odds against any challenger but the rewards of doing so. You could possibly have Roman take the belt off him and then revers champ challenger rules at a Mania with a Brock Rumble win (maybe less impactful) Or Braun loses in a way that doesn't hurt him then either at the end or on Raw take it out on Cena to write him off until Mania season.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted September 20, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) Thing with Braun is he's something completely unique in modern WWE, and that's someone they've decided to push from the off that managed to get over to an acceptable level. This is no Daniel Bryan story where, for a time, the company quite clearly resented how over he was, so I'm hopeful Vince goes all the way with this - during the recent 'rebuilding years' Braun is one of his very few success stories. He's just so stubborn with Reigns that it's buggered their product up. Edited September 20, 2017 by ColinBollocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted September 20, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted September 20, 2017 The real irony is that Roman would probably be a huge success if they just turned him heel. A heel Roman would be my ideal choice to eventually take the belt from Braun six to twelve months down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted September 20, 2017 Paid Members Share Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) 100%. Reigns was on fire during the 'Taker feud, where he was allowed to play up to the boos; it's the best and coolest version of solo Reigns. I'm still annoyed they didn't go all the way the moment they heard the HEAT he received the night after 'Mania. To hell with this half-hearted tweener bollocks. I'm still (foolishly) hopeful Cena exposing him so badly is part of Vince's grand plan of turning him in the near future. Otherwise, they've had another brilliant year making a complete balls up of their 'new' top babyface. In a better world, a heel version of The Shield reunite to batter Cena into an extended sabbatical. Or Reigns teases a Shield reunion, only to batter the pair of them. Plus, who better to take down a monster like Braun than The Shield. They can even do a Monster Powers tag team with Lesnar/Braun v The Shield - the possibilities are endless. Vince just needs to stop being such a stubborn tit about it. Edited September 20, 2017 by ColinBollocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts