UFC Fight Night: Overeem vs Arlovski - May 8th

[Egg Shen]

weird looking little card, the fights that where i recognise the names leap out and they should all be pretty sound. Heavyweight heavy cards can go one of two ways though, it could be a stinker.

 

If Rothwell beats JDS (and im favouring him), he has to get a title shot. A few years ago nobody would have given Rothwell a shot against JDS, and Rothwell's the older man. Crazy how this sport works.

 

Mairbek Taisumov buried down on the prelims too despite winning 3 in a row by KO, always worth watching. Some of these Russian fighters seem to stay on the undercards forever.

[wandshogun09]

I always forget about Taisumov. Probably because he's never off the prelims. A lot of the Russian fighters, I'm often impressed while I'm actually watching them fight, but their names all blend into each other in my head. The one who sticks out for me is Albert Tumenov, I really like him. But having a look at Taisumov now, I remember liking what I saw of him as well. But looking up his record, most of his fights have been on Fight Pass, and only once has he made the main card of a Fight Night. He's got a 4-1 UFC record and he's coming three wins in a row now with three finishes. Yet he still never advances up the card or gets bigger name opponents.

[Egg Shen]

Yeh its real hard for them to break away from the pack, seems to have to win twice as many fights as anyone to get noticed. They are rarely in a dull fight though, any of them.

[David]

No love for Scottish veteran Robert Whiteford, Wand? Fucking disgraceful.

[wandshogun09]

No love for Scottish veteran Robert Whiteford, Wand? Fucking disgraceful.

If it's not shortbread or Caty Cole, Scotland can fuck off.

 

Just kidding. Seriously, I completely overlooked Whiteford's fight there. I just kind of zone out the Fight Pass bit sometimes. It's a decent fight as well, Lucas Martins has had some good lower card fights the last couple of years. I can see this being a 'loser leaves' thing though. Martins is coming off two losses and Whiteford's got a 2-2 UFC record and lost his last fight as well.

[David]

Aye, unfortunately I see Rob getting the bullet if he loses here. Shame as well, as he's a nice enough guy.

 

I have a feeling that the explosion in popularity of the UFC in Europe has come along a little too late for him at 33 years old.

[jimufctna24]

If Rothwell beats JDS (and im favouring him), he has to get a title shot. A few years ago nobody would have given Rothwell a shot against JDS, and Rothwell's the older man. Crazy how this sport works.

The craziness of Heavyweight MMA.

 

Rothwell was lucky to be employed 2 years ago. He tested positive for elevated testosterone after a dull victory against a washed up Light Heavyweight. Before that, he was submitted by Gonzaga - another fighter who had seen better days -  and lost in one of the worst fights of all-time against Mark Hunt at high altitude. His only UFC wins were against Schaub and Yvel. Hardly anything to get excited about.

 

If Rothwell was in any other division I had that record, he would have been cut loose after the positive test. However, given that Heavyweights are a rare breed, he got gifted another chance. Fair play to him. He's had 3 quality wins in the past 18 months, and has probably improved his game. You don't beat Barnett and Overeem by stoppage if you don't have some talent. However, it's a sad reflection of Heavyweight MMA that he's a legit contender. Or perhaps a sad reflection of the durability of Cain and JDS. In terms of pure talent, this should be their time. Instead thanks to injuries and punishment, both appear to be on the scrap heap. 

[Gus Mears]

As a relatively casual MMA fan, how do any of you think Brock would have got on if he had returned?

 

I felt at the time he would likely be mullered, but the heavyweight division seems so poor at the moment that he might have been able to beat a fair few names.

[jimufctna24]

As a relatively casual MMA fan, how do any of you think Brock would have got on if he had returned?

 

I felt at the time he would likely be mullered, but the heavyweight division seems so poor at the moment that he might have been able to beat a fair few names.

Provided he returned something like - I think Mir, Big Foot, and Nelson would be winnable fights for him. Maybe at a stretch, he would have a shot against Rothwell, Hunt and Arlovski. I might add JDS to that list as well, provided he's as shot as we think he is. 

 

However, Werdum would give him fits. Barnett would be a terrible style match-up for him. I'd also favour Browne, Stipe, Overeem and Cain 2k15 to beat him fairly handily.

 

Matched carefully, he might have scored a few wins. However, I think he would have come unstuck against the top contenders, and would have little to no chance of regaining the title.

[David]

I can't agree when it comes to Nelson, Jim. I think Roy would have the gameplan required to beat Brock. He'd catch him with the big overhand and send Brock into his breakdancing routine eventually.

[lambyUK]

A Frank Mir Lesnar would make absolute mince meat out of Nelson. He would take Nelson down in about 3 seconds, and pound his face into oblivion. If that's anything like what a returning Lesnar would be like after overcoming his disease, then Nelson would be done in 1 round.

 

UFC 100 Lesnar is a freak of nature, the way he moved is pretty much unlike any heavyweight i've ever seen. 

 

Personally, I think a prime Lesnar before his diverticulitis could potentially be on top today, and a returning Lesnar, who knows?  Whilst he doesn't like taking a punch, if he moves like he did in his peak, then he could fuck up anyone. 

[jimufctna24]

David - I wouldn't be surprised if it went either way.

 

Frank Mir - who's a fairly modest wrestler - tossed Nelson around in 2011. Provided he was careful with his takedowns, Lesnar would have half a chance of keeping Nelson down for 15 mins. 

 

If the fight stayed standing for a prolonged period of time though, I would favour Nelson to get the stoppage.

[David]

A Frank Mir Lesnar would make absolute mince meat out of Nelson. He would take Nelson down in about 3 seconds, and pound his face into oblivion. If that's anything like what a returning Lesnar would be like after overcoming his disease, then Nelson would be done in 1 round.

 

UFC 100 is a freak of nature, the way he moved is pretty much unlike any heavyweight i've ever seen. 

 

Personally, I think a prime Lesnar before his diverticulitis could potentially be on top today, and a returning Lesnar, who knows?  Whilst he doesn't like taking a punch, if he moves like he did in his peak, then he could fuck up anyone. 

 

I think you're looking back with rose-tinted glasses there Lamby. Lesnar was good, but he lost handily to the two real top talent that he faced, and he lost badly. Both Overeem and Cain fucked him up big time, and would have done so regardless of any health issues he had I believe. Lesnar simply couldn't handle a punch, and he seemed to lose his composure when he got hit hard and often.

 

He basically beat Frank Mir, Heath Herring, Shane Carwin and Randy Couture. All of them decent enough, but not real elite top-level talent. Couture was elite at 205lbs, but we all know a win over Timmeh Sylvia and Gonzaga isn't the sign of an elite heavyweight.

 

Once you move beyond that mid-level talent you get to the real heavy-hitters, which is where Lesnar simply wasn't good enough to compete. Sure, he moved fast, he looked the part, and he could wrestle, but you know as well as most that such a narrow skillset can only get you so far.

 

That "so far" is possibly top five depending on the landscape of the division, but not top three.

 

And before the usual suspects dive in with their defence of the one guy who proved that pro wrasslers are "legit tough", I'm not saying Lesnar was shit. Far from it. He exceeded most expectations considering when he got into the game and the age he was.

 

David - I wouldn't be surprised if it went either way.

 

Frank Mir - who's a fairly modest wrestler - tossed Nelson around in 2011. Provided he was careful with his takedowns, Lesnar would have half a chance of keeping Nelson down for 15 mins. 

 

If the fight stayed standing for a prolonged period of time though, I would favour Nelson to get the stoppage.

 

At that point Mir was going through his purple patch though, wasn't he? He was breaking arms and KO'ing Croatian high-kick gurus en route to a heavyweight title shot. 

 

Nelson was contending with Mir's ground game more than his wrestling if I recall correctly, which added a different facet to the fight. That wouldn't be the case with Brock.

 

Different fight, different gameplan. Avoid the takedown, clobber the man who doesn't react well to being hit with possibly the hardest shot in the sport.

 

It's all conjecture of course, and fuck all to do with the discussion at hand, which maybe shows how appealing this card really is.

[d-d-d-dAz]

Brock Lesnar returning would probably have been underwhelming.

 

That said, I fully subscribe to Joe Rogans school of thought on Brock; if he'd have sought out a proper trainer early on, rather than use his wealth to create a training fiefdom (and an environment where his sparring partners were told not to punch him in the face and he could train on his own clock in whatever he wanted) he could have gone on to be the greatest of all time. Certainly at heavyweight. He's a legitimate, Grade A athletic freak.

[David]

Brock Lesnar returning would probably have been underwhelming.

 

That said, I fully subscribe to Joe Rogans school of thought on Brock; if he'd have sought out a proper trainer early on, rather than use his wealth to create a training fiefdom (and an environment where his sparring partners were told not to punch him in the face and he could train on his own clock in whatever he wanted) he could have gone on to be the greatest of all time. Certainly at heavyweight. He's a legitimate, Grade A athletic freak.

 

The thing with Brock is, he's a bit of a prick by all accounts. He's moody, he's antisocial, he's pretty stand-offish. Unlike Punk, who walked into a legit gym with the pro wrestling tag above his head, and proceeded to be humble, willing to learn, and show that he's not above the white belt status that he deserved, I doubt Brock would have done the same.

 

There's a good chance he'd not have settled at a legit gym in the same way as Punk has, and would have been subjected to those punches in the face. Guys who exhibit that kind of persona tend not to settle well. Look at the likes of Overeem as a prime example. Would Brock have stuck it out long enough to actually make it to the UFC?

 

After all, he's not an idiot. He'll have known that the best chance of success would come from attending a real gym with legit training partners, but he chose not to. there's a reason for that.