King Coconut Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 And the " we, the people" shit is similar to the " Matt Damon" line from Team America. I thought exactly the same thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Arch Stanton Posted March 18, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted March 18, 2013 I know I'm in the minority on here, but I've always liked Swagger and still do. I notice most of the criticisms leveled at him are for things that you're supposed to hate about his character, what with him being an arrogant jock. His biggest flaw has always been his speech impediment, but now that he has Zeb to talk for him he's sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Paul's Bin Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 I know I'm in the minority on here, but I've always liked Swagger and still do. I notice most of the criticisms leveled at him are for things that you're supposed to hate about his character, what with him being an arrogant jock. His biggest flaw has always been his speech impediment, but now that he has Zeb to talk for him he's sorted. Â Most of the criticisms are that he is the shit at everything he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I actually think that Swagger's biggest flaw is his complete inability to connect with the audience once the bell rings. He's like Shelton Benjamin but without the springboard spots. He's clearly a great athlete, he does all the moves well and his timing and positioning are great - but no-one ever gives a shit. Â For quite a long time I considered him to be one of those who "creative never does anything good with" and that he was a good wrestler who deserved better. The problem is, I can't actually place any really good matches he's been in. I can't answer "what's my favourite match of his" because they are all very forgettable. The most memorable thing I can recall involving him was when they aired they hilarious video of him working out with "his Dad", Bunkhouse Buck. Â Once the match starts he just doesn't do enough to keep the audience interested, and really if you can't do that, you're fucked! All the well delivered lines from Zeb won't change that. His in-ring stuff has barely altered from when he first turned up years ago. Bland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Butternut Squash Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Has he wrestled as a babyface before? I thought Del Rio was just as bland in ring before but he's real good at the baby stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I know I'm in the minority on here, but I've always liked Swagger and still do. I notice most of the criticisms leveled at him are for things that you're supposed to hate about his character, what with him being an arrogant jock. His biggest flaw has always been his speech impediment, but now that he has Zeb to talk for him he's sorted. I don't think a lisp is that big an issue. It hasn't held Cody Rhodes or Sheamus back. I like Swagger as well, but he is pretty boring. I don't think he's ever quite wrestled the way he should, and his interviews have never been much cop. The arrogant jock thing had a lot of potential, and for me he lost something when he dropped that part of his act the second he won the World title. He turned into a bigger, mongier-looking version of 2008 Jericho and it flopped. After that, Swagger was just a guy who was there who didn't have anything about him anymore. This patriot thing was novel when it started but it's died on its arse a bit now and probably doesn't work that well as a wrestling gimmick. Although Swagger's done nothing to raise his game with it so he might be the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Has he wrestled as a babyface before? I thought Del Rio was just as bland in ring before but he's real good at the baby stuff. Not that I know of, but possibly before he got called up? Â I thought Del Rio was much better at the in-ring heelishness and character work than Swagger. In Del Rio's case I'd put far more of the blame on dull feuds and giving him nothing interesting or new to do, rather than the actual in-ring work. He came out looking and acting the smug bastard, had a solid "work over the shoulder/arm" repertoire and I loved it when he'd get the tap from the armbreaker and just kick his opponents away from him, before jumping up and celebrating. He had some schtick, at least! It was the lack of hot angles and feuds that made him boring as a heel. Swagger just seems to be intrinsically dull to the core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSeaTiger Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 The thing with Swagger though, is are we actually meant to dislike him with the monkey-arms pose and stupid scream? Or are we meant to be intimidated? Either way, all I think when he does that is "twat". It's neither scary or heelish. The exact same as when Barrett does his " Boom" thing. Utterly embarrassing when they do it and not at all convincingly hard. It's like they are playing at being hard rather than actually being handy. And both are bland as shit once the bell rings. They are both over 6'3 or so and are totally unrealistic in everything they do. I do like the gut wrench powerbomb though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey_Jim Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 The point I believe your all missing with Swagger is heel heat isnt subjective. As long as you dislike him thats all that matters. Many of you will jump on the assault at me saying this because a lot of internet fans believe that 'X-Pac heat' is actually a real thing and not just an internet created term (along with 'rest hold' as well). Â Swagger and Zeb are getting a stack load of heat at the moment and have a fued with Del Rio that makes sense given their respective characters. He is having a good run at the moment and given where he was twelve months ago I cant see the need to pan him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAFKAC Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Surely, you want 'heat' in that you want fans to pay to see him get beat. As opposed to 'heat' where people change the channel/don't buy the show if he is in the main event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey_Jim Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Surely, you want 'heat' in that you want fans to pay to see him get beat. As opposed to 'heat' where people change the channel/don't buy the show if he is in the main event. and they do, most wrestling fans are kids and hate him and want to see him lose. The things said about him on a wrestling forum mean very little. If they did, John Cena wouldnt still be the biggest and best selling name in wrestling/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotlightmagnet1 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Jack Swagger is someone I just don't care about, but I thought Dutch Mantel would help him alot. But doing the bigot gimmick just smacks of desperation. Â At this point I just can't feign any interest in Swagger. His mop hair looks weak, his promo skills are pretty boring, his matches aren't very memorable and now he's a racist. None of the above is any reason to care in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Duke Posted March 18, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted March 18, 2013 and they do, most wrestling fans are kids and hate him and want to see him lose. Do they? What basis have you for that? Is it the apathy he's still mostly greeted by? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm29195 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I actually think that Swagger's biggest flaw is his complete inability to connect with the audience once the bell rings. He's like Shelton Benjamin but without the springboard spots. He's clearly a great athlete, he does all the moves well and his timing and positioning are great - but no-one ever gives a shit. Â For quite a long time I considered him to be one of those who "creative never does anything good with" and that he was a good wrestler who deserved better. The problem is, I can't actually place any really good matches he's been in. I can't answer "what's my favourite match of his" because they are all very forgettable. The most memorable thing I can recall involving him was when they aired they hilarious video of him working out with "his Dad", Bunkhouse Buck. Â Once the match starts he just doesn't do enough to keep the audience interested, and really if you can't do that, you're fucked! All the well delivered lines from Zeb won't change that. His in-ring stuff has barely altered from when he first turned up years ago. Bland. Â Not sure if Swagger hasn't actually regressed as a worker - I recall his ECW stuff against Dreamer and Christian in particular in 2008/2009 being really good. Best match of his is easily Backlash 2009 vs Christian IMO but that is probably more down to Christian than anything else.... his 2010 match against Taker and a couple of singles against Mysterio were also really good. Not much since then really, although I loved his match against Jericho from Smackdown from last week, but again, Jericho has been on a real tear of good matches since his latest return.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Paul's Bin Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Surely, you want 'heat' in that you want fans to pay to see him get beat. As opposed to 'heat' where people change the channel/don't buy the show if he is in the main event. and they do, most wrestling fans are kids and hate him and want to see him lose. The things said about him on a wrestling forum mean very little. If they did, John Cena wouldnt still be the biggest and best selling name in wrestling/ Â It's a completely different subject. Also I very much doubt the children who watch WWE understand the issues which Zeb brings up and boo Swagger because of it. Kids will boo any heels because they are heels. Â A good example of the crowd not giving a shit about Swagger is when he defeated Ryder for the US title in 2012. The crowd didn't react at all and didn't give a flying fuck. It's not heat which Swagger got then it was just "oh..". I still don't feel that Swagger isn't getting much heat for his current gimmick which is a pretty difficult gimmick not to go over well with US crowds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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