King Pitcos Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 Aye, he did, but everyone decent is immune to the Heyman Disease anyway. Cesaro can do his half of a TV cracker with a main eventer that people care about, and he can have a great inconsequential match with a Sheamus, but he's shown nothing that warrants him being above his current level. John Morrison could do a "fuck me, how does he do it" spot every match as well if they'd wanted, and it didn't make him an interesting character either. For two and a half years, they've been on a cycle where they try to get Cesaro over with something, then he's a boring fucker and it doesn't work so they give up and have him do nothing, then they think of something new and the same thing happens. The best thing to do is probably to get him back in a tag team as soon as they can. It made sense to split him and Swagger up when it seemed like he was getting it, but at this point, it's clear he's not cut out for solo stardom and every appearance only drives him further down the interest rankings. I can't help but think that his previous status as an independent wrestling favourite is colouring your judgement at least a little bit.
Moderators PowerButchi Posted October 4, 2014 Moderators Posted October 4, 2014 But Cesaro was interesting for that short period earlier this year running up to Wrestlemania. Crowds were reacting, he seemed primed for the turn babyface which he really needed with his crowd pleasing spots, and he came out of Elimination Chamber looking like he could be worth a go. Not everyone decent is immune to The Heyman Disease. Punk wasn't, Ryback wasn't. The only person who is is Brock Lesnar and he's teflon to be fair.
King Pitcos Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 Cesaro was interesting in that period, but it was all Emperor's New Clothes in the end. Tremendous performers like John Cena and Zeb Colter making him look a million bucks. Six months later and he's back to being the same boring wrestler, hoping entrance gear will connect, coming to the ring in gear that Tensai and Tazz left out. Just like when he was wearing Sgt Slaughter's hats before he joined the Real Americans. Timing is important in wrestling, and in that sense WWE has to share the blame, but a dull performer is a dull performer, even if they have a purple patch around WrestleMania time. The Interesting Version of Cesaro seems to be working the same schedule as Undertaker and the good writers. Punk was never harmed by Heyman until they were feuding against each other, though; side by side, they were a great act. Ryback I'd grant you easier, but he was drafted into Heyman's stable solely to play whipping boy for Punk because shitty Axel couldn't carry that role. Ryback's career was destroyed by Punk twice moreso than Heyman once.
Moderators PowerButchi Posted October 4, 2014 Moderators Posted October 4, 2014 I always thought Heyman with Punk was the start of Punk's decline to be honest, a decline only steepened and hurried by the following feud. Wasn't a fan of their shit. Your post also reminded me that the world is greatly unfair and that Ryback should be the fucking man by now. He's dreamy.
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted October 4, 2014 Author Paid Members Posted October 4, 2014 I always thought Heyman with Punk was the start of Punk's decline to be honest, a decline only steepened and hurried by the following feud. Wasn't a fan of their shit.Nah, completely unfair IMO. He enhanced Punk's act. Heyman is at his best with someone like Punk or Lesnar. His great delivery and smarminess work best when what he is saying is true. It makes the truth horrible to hear and that produces emotion from the crowd. Even though Punk didn't need Heyman to talk for him, it did three things. It made it seem like Punk was the best in the world rather than the usual delusional heel. It stopped Punk's act getting tiresome because there was someone else to share the screen. And it kept Punk heel when crowds would probably have cheered for him otherwise. Your post also reminded me that the world is greatly unfair and that Ryback should be the fucking man by now. He's dreamy.Ryback is tremendous and I still think they could rebuild him. Pitcos is right though, ruined long before Heyman. They could have recovered Ryback under Heyman if they'd had the patience to start from scratch with him and build him again with wins over progressively better opponents. Unfortunately they wanted Ryback as cannon fodder for Punk NOW. I know (hope) you're joking about the "Heyman disease" but that's as absurd as people thinking that you stick someone with Heyman and if he says they're good, it makes them good. Heyman could have cut the most impassioned promo you ever heard but once the bell rung - the guy is still Curtis Axel. Cesaro is an odd one. Firstly because there was absolutely no reason to put him with Heyman (or anyone). The crowd turned him babyface so they should have stuck with what they were doing. I think he's a boring cunt but if the crowd are into what he's doing - you do that. Plus he wasn't Heyman's focus. Heyman was focused on rubbing in Lesnar's breaking of the streak every two minutes to keep Brock's name in the frame for a title reign. So Cesaro is back doing what he was doing a couple of years ago. Having matches that might be technically good but are completely irrelevant.
CavemanLynn Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 Cesaro was boss in those training vignettes ages ago in the run-up to Mania - it was like he was Ivan Drago if he was trained at Cobra Kai, the smug intellectual who trained like a methodical animal. If they showed more of that instead of relying on awkward 'live' backstage segments with no sense of pacing, he'd be much bigger than he is. Everyone looks shit, ignoring the camera and pausing for a crowd reaction they're told is there but isn't. And Cesaro's sleeper-to-cradle-move Minoru Suzuki homage was awesome.
Dirty Eddie Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 For two and a half years, they've been on a cycle where they try to get Cesaro over with something, then he's a boring fucker and it doesn't work so they give up and have him do nothing, If you can't accept the fact that he was over, then this discussion is utterly pointless. Here's an idea, replace the name Cesaro with Ryback and you can go back to having a good old cry about how badly they screwed him.
King Pitcos Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) If you think that giving someone the Goldberg push and then killing them in their first real match isn't screwing them, you're best off sticking to your indie DVDs where "Claudio isn't misused" and crying about Triple H's shovel, DiROHty 03ddie. Edited October 4, 2014 by King Pitcos
Dirty Eddie Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 If you think that giving someone the Goldberg push and then killing them in their first real match isn't screwing them, you're best off sticking to your indie DVDs where "Claudio isn't misused" and crying about Triple H's shovel, DiROHty 03ddie. Of course they wasted Ryback. But it's mad how you can see straight past all of his faults "because he was over, and you keep pushing over people" yet you don't hold the same opinion for others? Surely by your standards an unbeaten streak and jobber matches is just an "Emperor's new clothes" situation, after all Ryback had tons of failed gimmicks and years in developmental where mostly looked awful before that. If you treated Ryback the same as you do Cesaro then you'k think Ryback was the shittest wrestler ever (based on his previous and current incarnations) who had that one "lucky run" where they just happened to protect him, push him and hide his weaknesses.
King Pitcos Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 I'm more than happy to admit that Ryback was a severely limited performer that was utterly reliant on creative making him win all the time to be a big star. Can you admit that about Cesaro?
Sphinx Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 Cesaro had more mileage in him post-Mania. Keeping him heel when the crowd were begging to cheer him waa odd. You don't know how he'll adapt. People were saying Daniel Bryan was just a goof when he first came in. I, and a lot of others, knew he had more to him. He'd shown as recently as NXT that he could be compelling and had a personality. I don't really watch indy wrestling, but I remember thinking Cesaro stood out when I saw him then. I couldn't comment on his promos on the indy circuit as I didn't see any, but maybe it's similar to the Daniel Bryan situation. His awful music (makes a big difference), being a side focus to Lesnar and his booking has impacted him. Maybe he needs an ideal set of circumstances for him to click, but that's not to say there's nothing more to him.
King Pitcos Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) Two and a half years after his debut, Daniel Bryan was a former World champion consistently getting great reactions and just about to form the greatest tag team since Miz and Morrison. He wasn't going to the lost and found digging out old entrance gear to make up for a lack of personality. Cesaro isn't in the "first came in" category -- suggesting he is makes you sound like the sort of idiot who was crying out for them to push "rookie" Shelton Benjamin who had been on the roster for about eight years. The Shield and the Wyatts all debuted after Cesaro, over a year later in the Wyatts' case. Edited October 4, 2014 by King Pitcos
Paid Members Arch Stanton Posted October 4, 2014 Paid Members Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) Check out this promo from Cesaro from this week's Main Event... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nTcp5PO_7g#t=106 He's the worst in the company. I'd probably include NXT in that statement too. Edited October 4, 2014 by Arch Stanton
Daaaaaad! Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 It almost certainly doesn't help that Cesaro's music is the worst in the company. Rollins and Ambrose both have something fairly generic (although I weirdly find myself humming the intro drum riff to Rollins' music after he's been on) but that dull European ambulance siren on the start of Cesaro's is the fucking pits.
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted October 4, 2014 Paid Members Posted October 4, 2014 Check out this promo from Cesaro from this week's Main Event... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nTcp5PO_7g#t=106 He's the worst in the company. I'd probably include NXT in that statement too. Not defending it but those 15 second split screen during entrances promos are always terrible no matter who's doing them.
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