AshC Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Anyone who believes their place in this is a div, As James Mason would run rings around all of us!" He'd also set up and take down those rings, he's that bloody good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rohpete Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 ^^^^^ Thanks, Ian (and others). Always nice to know my efforts are appreciated. Most of the research for the write-ups isn't done over the course of the year from visiting shows, though, it's just done from the internet at the time I'm actually writing the bios up (which is why it takes so long to get the bloody thing written up...)! I try to add some personal opinion here and there on matches I do happen to have seen (mainly GPW, IPW:UK, XWA and PCW this year), but this year I've gone with the option of adding YouTube links to the write-ups so that people can see the wrestlers for themselves. I'm probably only keeping doing this out of habit now. That said, it's supposed to be fun, and I hope people reading it (be they British wrestling fans, other UKFF members, or people involved in wrestling) treat it as such.  It was a bit disheartening to see only 60ish people take part this year (it's been up at about 120 for the past 3-4 years), but I still think that is 60 of the best placed people to actually have a go at such a project and make the results at least interesting. UKFF is, after all, typically going to be more of the types of people who do see various wrestlers on various shows from various promotions (thus having a basis of comparison) than those who maybe see a show in their local hall once a year. People will debate the effectiveness of this project, and have done since it started 8 years ago, but I don't think any other group or community of wrestling fans could do this to the same degree as we do.  The point about exposure (in that those wrestlers that wrestle in more parts of the country tend to be higher than those that only wrestle in one place) is a valid one - though it should be said that a wrestler has to be good in the first place for different promotions to go to the trouble of bringing them in. There are exceptions, but those that tend to be booked around the country in more places are getting booked because they are the best. A promotion in Kent isn't going to go to the effort of bringing Johnny Shitarse down from Yorkshire and, even if they did, it would only result in more people thinking he was crap.  Oh, and 'britishwrestlinglegends, I know who the two people who voted Dave Rayne their individual #1 are. Neither are Dave's family, but both are those who predominantly get to see FutureShock Wrestling. On that basis, I can justifiably see why, in their opinion, they could consider Rayne, the top heel in that promotion for a couple of years, to be at the very top. I was going to reply along the lines of "All your hard work would be more credible if you mainly had the opinions of those within the industry, Then by coincidence i got this text shortly after.  "Feel free to post this on my behalf. The issue is that the it is named the "UK top 50", When it should be the "UKFF's favourite 50" because that's all it is. Your guys favourite 50 workers. As a worker i appreciate the time Benny puts into it. It's nice to know what we do is appreciated, But this is not a top 50 by any means. It's your favourite 50.  As far as saying "it's someones opinion", Hiltler's opinion was that Jews should be killed, Does'nt make in correct though. The other issue that comes with this is half witted promoters who will book their talent souly based off this. There's certain guys who have had the likes of Rob Brookside, Rampage Brown & James Mason each turn & say they are good workers. Yet there's people on here who the same three have said are fucking rotten.  A top 50 should be pieced together by the ones with the most knowledge of the job. The actual wrestlers & promoters who are credible. This is a list of your favourite wrestlers. Anyone who believes their place in this is a div, As James Mason would run rings around all of us!"  Nathan Cruz.  Also i have apologised to Dave Rayne for using him as an example. I should have just bigged up Rampage & left Dave alone. As i have no axe to grind with him & he has done very well to turn the perception of him around.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Big Benny HG Posted September 14, 2012 Author Paid Members Share Posted September 14, 2012 The issue is that the it is named the "UK top 50" It isn't. Â It is, and has always been, called the 'UKFF 50' and then later (when I was toying with the idea of doing a worldwide version) the 'UKFF UK50'. That makes it pretty clear that it is just supposed to be the collective opinions of the UKFF members, not the be-all-and-end-all definitive list of the top UK workers. At no point in the 8 years this has been running has this project ever been called the UK Top 50. Â When it should be the "UKFF's favourite 50" because that's all it is. Your guys favourite 50 workers. As a worker i appreciate the time Benny puts into it. It's nice to know what we do is appreciated, But this is not a top 50 by any means. It's your favourite 50. Â Yes! That's the point! Our favourites, based on the criteria given. Â A top 50 should be pieced together by the ones with the most knowledge of the job. The actual wrestlers & promoters who are credible. This is a list of your favourite wrestlers. Anyone who believes their place in this is a div, As James Mason would run rings around all of us!" Again, see my earlier point. It should also be mentioned that a good proportion of people who vote in this (I estimate up to 40% in some years) are wrestlers, promoters and other people involved in wrestling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cum Doctor Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 It's rare to see such a massive missing of the point like we've seen here. Â Also, the suggestion that it's not actually the fans who judge is pretty funny as well. Guys should probably just try wrestling in front of a bunch of non-paying wrestlers if they feel that way. See where it gets them. The fans are the ones who are going to be paying to watch and enjoy the show. You might feel that the opinion wrong but that's your problem. Nobody else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Big Benny HG Posted September 14, 2012 Author Paid Members Share Posted September 14, 2012 It's rare to see such a massive missing of the point like we've seen here. Also, the suggestion that it's not actually the fans who judge is pretty funny as well. Guys should probably just try wrestling in front of a bunch of non-paying wrestlers if they feel that way. See where it gets them. The fans are the ones who are going to be paying to watch and enjoy the show. You might feel that the opinion wrong but that's your problem. Nobody else's. Exactly. The whole point is that the UKFF UK50 is supposed to be a fans' poll, compiling fans' opinions. It's also notable that those who seem to criticise it each year do so without actually having any idea of what the UKFF UK50 actually is. The whole "Don't call it the UK Top 50 then" illustrates that perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaaaaad! Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I was going to reply along the lines of "All your hard work would be more credible if you mainly had the opinions of those within the industry, Then by coincidence i got this text shortly after. "Feel free to post this on my behalf. The issue is that the it is named the "UK top 50", When it should be the "UKFF's favourite 50" because that's all it is. Your guys favourite 50 workers. As a worker i appreciate the time Benny puts into it. It's nice to know what we do is appreciated, But this is not a top 50 by any means. It's your favourite 50.  As far as saying "it's someones opinion", Hiltler's opinion was that Jews should be killed, Does'nt make in correct though. The other issue that comes with this is half witted promoters who will book their talent souly based off this. There's certain guys who have had the likes of Rob Brookside, Rampage Brown & James Mason each turn & say they are good workers. Yet there's people on here who the same three have said are fucking rotten.  A top 50 should be pieced together by the ones with the most knowledge of the job. The actual wrestlers & promoters who are credible. This is a list of your favourite wrestlers. Anyone who believes their place in this is a div, As James Mason would run rings around all of us!"  Nathan Cruz. I really get the feeling from your post that we were all supposed to be impressed and go 'Oooh' at the bolded bit, instead of not really caring. Anyway, I got a text off of Mad Man Manson* saying he writes his position on his wall every year in order to give him something to aim at, so that shows you, yeah?  *May be a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobystag Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Well my estimation of Cruz has gone down a little after reading that. I can get why someone incredibly loyal and passionate may miss the point of the list, but for a worker to do the complete same and have a little tizzy over it, is ridiculous. Especially by all accounts he's a young lad who should have a good head on his shoulders and y'know GET stuff like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarveyDale Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Seeing as people have been nagging at me to get an account on here I may aswell throw my 2 cents in aswell......  I like lamp  That is all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted September 14, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted September 14, 2012 Who are you? Introduce yourself. You made that post like Steve Austin has cracked under the pressure and decided to vent at the forum. It would be nice to know who has been doing the nagging and why they feel you would add to this fine forum. Â Omar on standby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarveyDale Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Who are you? Introduce yourself. You made that post like Steve Austin has cracked under the pressure and decided to vent at the forum. Â Â Ha ha, sorry man, i'm a nobody, ring announcer/voice of the 'House Of Pain' - just find it funny that people get so bent out of shape over other people's opinions. I get around and watch my fair share of stuff so can't agree completely with Nathan's opinion as I like the idea of people expressing who their favourite workers are etc as it gives a fan who hasn't had the chance to check some of these people out the chance to see their work when they may never have thought to look them up before. If people rank highly then they are obviously doing something right and entertaining people and that must be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPW Kristian Zane Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Sounds like Nathan Cruz wants to generate some interest in himself with a post like that, which is a shame because as has been said this is a Fans Poll for fun and I believe the fans views are 100% valid because they pay to see the wrestlers. Â Yes, workers will have their own Top 50 but its not like there can't be a list from the fans perspective and a list from the workers perspective, its ok to have both, Nathan seems to have forgotten that which is a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fye Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I think this is fun, I enjoy following it and voted in 2011, maybe 2010 too. I think Benny's commitment to this and the detail and quality of it is beyond anything else done as a tribute to british wrestling. It will always be swayed towards people in the popular promotions with UKFFers so the likes of PCW, Southside, Fight Club, etc should represent quite well. Â I think people involved in the industry who dont like it are the ones taking it too seriously or misunderstanding the point. I take it as fun and appreciate the amount of work put into it. I may now be blackballed by a lot of wrestlers who are anti UKFF 50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted September 14, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted September 14, 2012 This debate should have stopped automatically under Godwin's Law when BWL/Cruz decided to go down the "Reductio Ad Hitlerum" route (which is also a ridiculous comparison to make when discussing the nature of subjectivity and opinion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted September 14, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted September 14, 2012 The other issue that comes with this is half witted promoters who will book their talent souly based off this. Â So the source of the problem isn't this forum after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dart Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I was going to reply along the lines of "All your hard work would be more credible if you mainly had the opinions of those within the industry, Then by coincidence i got this text shortly after. "Feel free to post this on my behalf. The issue is that the it is named the "UK top 50", When it should be the "UKFF's favourite 50" because that's all it is. Your guys favourite 50 workers. As a worker i appreciate the time Benny puts into it. It's nice to know what we do is appreciated, But this is not a top 50 by any means. It's your favourite 50.  As far as saying "it's someones opinion", Hiltler's opinion was that Jews should be killed, Does'nt make in correct though. The other issue that comes with this is half witted promoters who will book their talent souly based off this. There's certain guys who have had the likes of Rob Brookside, Rampage Brown & James Mason each turn & say they are good workers. Yet there's people on here who the same three have said are fucking rotten.  A top 50 should be pieced together by the ones with the most knowledge of the job. The actual wrestlers & promoters who are credible. This is a list of your favourite wrestlers. Anyone who believes their place in this is a div, As James Mason would run rings around all of us!"  Nathan Cruz.  Also i have apologised to Dave Rayne for using him as an example. I should have just bigged up Rampage & left Dave alone. As i have no axe to grind with him & he has done very well to turn the perception of him around.  So, all you've just told us is that on top of being a pretty awful wrestler, Nathan Cruz is also a complete div? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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