The Why Don't You Get a Job Thread

[SpursRiot2012]

So my on again, off again relationship with my sales role came to a head this week when I found out that a coworker who does the exact same job I do was getting paid a fair emount more than I was.

I have been operating under basically a zero hours contract, although with a substantial day rate. The benefits on my side was the flexibility - I work one to three days a week - and the lack of notice period I would have to give to leave The downside was that I was on an essentially freelance day rate, I was not entitled to acurre holiday. Meaning, any time time I wanted to fuck off for two weeks on holiday meant zero pay.

In the last month or so, they hired an office manager who was aghast we at the level of record keeping within the company and is keen as hell to get us all to sign contacts that would include no compete clauses for 90 days or more meaning we couldn't go work somewhere doing similar role until that time had elapsed. Since I was working on a handshake agreement with my MD, I never signed any contract on my return to the company.

The office manager is keen to sign everyone down to contacts but that fact was I wasn't signing shit until my pay was on par with the aforementioned coworker. Also, I wanted holiday pay.

After a number of weeks going back and forth, it was agreed I would get a pay rise, holiday pay, the whole shebang.

Then, towards the end of the day, I was brought into a meeting and informed the "business change manager" (her duties were to make our CRM fit for purpose) had left or been forced out and I was asked to take over management duties for the CRM, but also still making sales calls a couple times a.week.

Thing is, the earlier discussions with my MD re: pay and holiday accrument, didn't mention anything about taking over CRM management for the entire company. Now I'm wondering if I should take my MD aside and say that given the extra responsibilities that entails, I shouldn't be asking for yet another bump in pay. Not a huge amount but I feel if I am going to be doing essentially two different jobs within the business, I should be compensated accordingly.

Was wondering if anyone had any advice on this. I secured a pay rise for my sales role on Tuesday but it wasn't until Tuesday evening that I was informed that the women they specifically hired "a 'Business Change consultant" had been unceremoniously turfed out. I know for a fact she was being paid, basic salary wise, more than almost all the sales sfaff.

We have a CRM strategy meeting booking between the MD, the head of BD and myself but would I be out of line, considering how quickly they've thrown the CRM my way, I should ask for a further rise in pay. That is my predicament

 

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by SpursRiot2012

[Carbomb]

I don't think it's out of line. You've got a pay rise to match the job you were doing, not the one they're asking you to do now. But it seems to me the best thing to do would be to ask them directly if these extra duties mean extra hours and extra responsibility/liability, just to get them to say it outright, so there's no ambiguity. I've often seen for myself or heard about from a lot of people that it's quite common for employers to try to pull a fast one by gradually phasing a "grunt"-level employee into a management-level job, in order to avoid having to pay management-level pay and/or bestow management-level benefits.

There is the possibility that the company maybe in difficulties right now, hence the laying off of the consultant, etc., so it might be best to wait a while, to show you're a team player. But, ultimately, you should be paid commensurately for the job you're being asked to do.

[Retro Red]

If it's additional responsibilities then you could ask if they see this as a permanent transition. As Carb says, if you get them to outright tell you if you are covering your sales job a couple of days a week to lessen the impact until they back fill your old role, or to ensure that you are still performing your key role and cause less impact on you when the temporary additional responsibilities are finished. If it's the former then you can ask what sort of pay progression would be included as you skill up and transition permanently, if it's the latter then you can ask if there is any scope for an additional responsibilities allowance.

[SpursRiot2012]

Thanks for the tips guys.

I was only working in my sales role three days a week. My new contract is being drawn up but I haven't signed anything yet. But it was always going to be a three day role. What they're asking me to do is come in the extra two days a week to manage the CRM at the same day rate. This may be my downfall. I agreed to a day rate. Whether that day is full of sales calls, CRM management or mooching around drinking coffee, I get the feeling that they will justify it as, "well, it's your day rate." However, there is no way that my CRM responsibilities won't bleed into my sales days because what they really need is somebody there five days a week to deal with any CRM issues.

As I say, I haven't signed anything yet and I will still have a chance to discuss with my MD all these issues, but I think if I get myself switched from a day rate (which made sense when I made what was supposed to be a temporary, two days a week return to the job in February) to a salaried position, working five days a week, with a reduced sales target taking into account my CRM duties, I can probably finagle another rise into that.

Thing is, it isn't just managing the CRM as it currently stands. It's improving upon it and making it as fit for purpose for what we do as is possibly. And with very little time to familiarise myself with what's gone on before me (the changes the consultant made, by request of whom, what are the ultimate objectives we want to achieve, what does the sales staff feel would be useful etc).

It most likely will end up being a permanent transition, assuming I can do the job. But everyone - from the MD on down - still has to make sales calls. Granted, the MD is speaking with incredibly warm prospects that we are trying to bring on board as clients for ourselves, and the Head of BD (who happens to be a good buddy of mine) tends to make the calls he wants to make, as opposed to dialling a hundred numbers a day to reach the right DM (and I also have a similar amount of leeway due to my tenure with the company and the fact that I produce very high quality meetings for our clients, not the wishy washy stuff newbies tend to pursue since they're out to prove how much effort they'll put into the role - something I don't need to worry about just so long as my lead quality remains good).

Edited September 24, 2018 by SpursRiot2012

[FLips]

As some of you may know I changed careers recently from a well paying, sociable hours office job that I hated to a shift-work, unsociable hours job that pays less but I thought I'd enjoy.

I've been there a couple of weeks now and the job itself is much more exciting but the hours are killing me and it's a slog trying to see anyone or do anything. I'm working 5 days a week, constant 8-10 hour shifts but finishing 9-10.30pm every night.

I'm not sure what to do. I sacrificed a lot to try this and I've no shame in giving it a go, and I do enjoy it. The sad fact is I feel I don't enjoy it enough that I mind having no social life or free time. I've swang the opposite way to my last job which gave me good sociable hours but I wasn't a fan of the job to enjoying the job but losing all my time.

I can just feel I won't stick it out and it's bumming me out because everyone was so happy for me giving it a go.

[Keith Houchen]

I remember a few saying how kitchen work isn't "Social hours" and I thought the woman rang up to clarify the questions you had?  I don't think anyone can tell you how to live your life but don't be stubborn and stay there BECAUSE you gave stuff up for it.  Do you work to live or live to work?

[gmoney]

@Ralphy How did that new job go, if you don't mind me asking? 

[FLips]

17 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

I remember a few saying how kitchen work isn't "Social hours" and I thought the woman rang up to clarify the questions you had?  I don't think anyone can tell you how to live your life but don't be stubborn and stay there BECAUSE you gave stuff up for it.  Do you work to live or live to work?

I knew it'd be shift work, and my issue was guaranteeing 35 hours a week, however every shift I'm on is all day and night or just the night. I would be fine if there was variety, some mornings and afternoons, or some shorter shifts, but it's constantly long shifts all day and night. 

You're right there Keith. The reason I left my old job was because I'd spent 4 years stagnating there and I don't want to do the same here. I need to weigh up my options.

[Keith Houchen]

Ah, that was it.  Apologies.

Try and remember one thing.  Most of us think about giving up the daily grind and trying our hand at something else that we actually want to try.  The fact is, even if it didn't work out, you tried.  You did it.  97% of people won't have the guts to repost th...I mean make that change, but you did.

Regardless of how it pans out, you should be proud of yourself for having to courage to try.

[FLips]

Thanks Keith, that's nice to hear.

[gmoney]

I'm sure you'll be fine mate, as it sounds like genuine and fairly common bureaucratic issues rather than anything else. Plus you've had them tell you it in the bag, and they've got no reason to string you along. Hope it gets sorted soon though. 

Edited September 30, 2018 by gmoney

[Gus Mears]

I've got the final interview/presentation for the job I interviewed for just under a month ago and am shitting it for the first time in an interview for years. It's a tough presentation in terms of the amount of technical stuff I've had to digest and I'm still not 100% sure I'm on the right track with it (not that there necessarily is a right answer), but I think it's more because the place I'm working currently has fallen to pieces, I really want this job and it's a really significant pay increase. 

It's far from the end of the world if I don't get it, I'm on decent money and not on the way out here. But I know it's going to get even more miserable going forward due to the entire team apart from me leaving within the past few months (shit management). 

[unfitfinlay]

On 9/29/2018 at 3:21 PM, FelatioLips said:

I knew it'd be shift work, and my issue was guaranteeing 35 hours a week, however every shift I'm on is all day and night or just the night. I would be fine if there was variety, some mornings and afternoons, or some shorter shifts, but it's constantly long shifts all day and night. 

You're right there Keith. The reason I left my old job was because I'd spent 4 years stagnating there and I don't want to do the same here. I need to weigh up my options.

Working in Restaurants doesn't get much better, unfortunately. Some of the stories my Chefs at college used to tell were really quite depressing. Stuff like "My kids grew up without me but they seem to have turned out okay" or talking about an old Pastry tutor who retired and kept hanging about the college, writing recipes, because he had nothing else in his life.

The good thing about cooking though is there are more places to work than just restaurants or hotels. If it's something you are interested in then maybe have a look at care homes, schools, hospitals etc? It's still busy but there's a far better work/life balance.

On a related note, it looks like I might be done as a Chef. I applied for a KP job in a five star hotel, mainly because of my own insecurity about whether I could cut it at that level but they offered me a job in their canteen instead. After a month of working relatively normal hours, and actually having a proper contract, I don't know if I can ever go back to the way I've been living for the past few years. I can't remember the last time I've been able to definitively say "I'm off that day" or know exactly how much I'm going to be paid at the end of the month. It's fucking great. There's talk about moving me up at some point but I think I'll say no if I'm offered.

[SpursRiot2012]

So now I'm working four days a week, two days of sales and two days of CRM management, and I have to say that I am not enjoying it. On paper, taking away a day of sales is great, except my target isn't much changed and, while the consultant before me got two days of training at the CRM company, I'm supposed to just learn how to do stuff on the fly. It's an extra headache for no extra money. And in any case, I've hated working here for a lonnnnng time in general. I think I just need a fresh start somewhere else doing something I actually enjoy. That's it.

[Carbomb]

7 minutes ago, SpursRiot2012 said:

So now I'm working four days a week, two days of sales and two days of CRM management, and I have to say that I am not enjoying it. On paper, taking away a day of sales is great, except my target isn't much changed and, while the consultant before me got two days of training at the CRM company, I'm supposed to just learn how to do stuff on the fly. It's an extra headache for no extra money. And in any case, I've hated working here for a lonnnnng time in general. I think I just need a fresh start somewhere else doing something I actually enjoy. That's it.

What I said to you before, dude. You have time to build a career in a field you like. You don't have the extra commitment of family yet, and you're not yet at that age when you'll be pipped to the post by graduates, so you really should take advantage of this time to go for what you want, instead of sticking in a job you hate until it's too late. Let go of the balloon now, or hold onto it until you reach where it's hard to breathe.