Paid Members Chilly McFreeze Posted April 16, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted April 16, 2012 Blair Witch would be my number 1. The only film that has ever scared me. Infact, it would be in my top 5 films of all time. Â It's easy to forget the impact that film had when it came out. It was such an original concept for a mainstream movie, shame that it's been done to death ever since, and never had the same impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members chokeout Posted April 16, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted April 16, 2012 The promotion of Blair Witch was marketing genius and had some pure William Castle style carny tricks going on with it (reports of people passing out and throwing up, The websites that 'confirmed' it was true) but it just doesn't hold up to repeat viewing. Fantastic ending though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Astro Hollywood Posted April 16, 2012 Moderators Share Posted April 16, 2012 The promotion of Blair Witch was marketing genius and had some pure William Castle style carny tricks going on with it (reports of people passing out and throwing up, The websites that 'confirmed' it was true) Â You'll never get the like of the footage that came out of the first showings at Cannes again, with people having panic attacks and violently shaking in the street outside because their worldview got so shook. A ton of the first people who saw it genuinely thought it was real, and suddenly, witches were real, and they were retching with fear as they came out of the film. Â If there's an imaginary line in history, of the Zero Point when the internet became so widespread you could never fool anyone again, Blair Witch snuck out about two inches behind it. In 2012, it's be about 3 seconds before someone in line pulled up one of the 'missing' actor's headshots on a phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Ive been reading these Friday the 13th comments about the first one being rubbish thinking to myself "I thought that was pretty good", and realised I'd mistaken it for Nightmare On Elm Street  So did I! I genuinely don't think I've ever seen a Friday 13th movie, and it sounds like I'm not missing out. Nightmare On Elm Street is great, hopefully we can all agree on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted April 16, 2012 Author Paid Members Share Posted April 16, 2012 Ive been reading these Friday the 13th comments about the first one being rubbish thinking to myself "I thought that was pretty good", and realised I'd mistaken it for Nightmare On Elm Street  So did I! I genuinely don't think I've ever seen a Friday 13th movie, and it sounds like I'm not missing out.  Most things from part 5 onwards are a good laugh in a 'they are shit' way. Except for part 8, which is just awesome full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members chokeout Posted April 16, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted April 16, 2012 Friday 13th became self aware and realised that a)People were going for Jason rather than storyline and b) it just needed stupid kills and tits and everyone would be happy. In that respect it did it far better than the Nightmare on Elm Street sequels  Part 4 shouldn't be overlooked purely for this  Part 8 should have been done for false advertising. Its promises Jason rampaging through New York and what do we get? 2/3 of it is set on a boat and when they get off they are in Canada! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted April 16, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted April 16, 2012 Friday The 13th Part 5 is my favorite comedy of all time. It's like a ridiculously violent episode of Scooby Doo. Apart from Jason Goes To Hell I love all the Friday 13th movies.  High points of the series:  - In 5, where a guy suffering from mental problems is bullied by a jock at breakfast, the guy in response (probably the msot over the top response to anything ever) gives the jock an Attitude Adjustment through the breakfast table.  - When Jason beheads 3 paintballers with one slice.  - The girl with telekinesis in number 6.  - The guy from Back To The Future's crazy ninja dancemoves in number 3.  - Jason kicking the hip hoppers stereo over in Jason Takes New York  - The fact that even though he is unmasked in pretty much every film, his face changes every single time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members chokeout Posted April 16, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted April 16, 2012 When you finally see him without his stupid sack on his face in 2 and he just looks like a slightly melted version of Spudgun from Bottom and by Part 8 he looks like Sloth from the Goonies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members DEF Posted April 16, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted April 16, 2012 The idea that Friday The 13th took something Halloween started and perfected it makes me ill.  Nobody even remotely said Friday the 13th is a better film than Halloween. The point I was making is that it was as influential on the genre. Friday really has more in common with A Bay of Blood than Halloween, Peeping Tom, Psycho, TCM etc. Halloween gets a nod as much as its success got Friday the 13th green lit and was responsible for genesis of the title.  Also for the record I'm not trying to argue that Halloween or TCM weren't influential. That would be madness. I'm just also giving Friday the 13th its rightful due. All three of these slashers share basic conventions of the genre but they are still quite different films and Friday is responsible for its clones of which there are many.  Essentially what it was, was the manifestation of Hollywood institutional envy at independent success. Paramount saw what Halloween created and saw a franchising opportunity. The film lacked any intelligence, any creativity, any meaningful vision in terms of conception and lacked any talent on-screen. It really is the fucking shits. Thing is, Halloween isn't the first slasher film. You've got films like TCM and Black Christmas that pre-date it, and even use the final girl element. But, Halloween created a whole new raft of horror tropes that became so well accepted, so used, that Scream's success came off the back of deconstructing the tight-knit genre that Halloween created. In the same way (to nick a conversation from another thread) that Scream, and to a lesser extent Saw, with initial creativity, skill and vision created a framework of 'horror' that other studios worked within and used to slowly homogenise the genre until something came along as a reaction (again, i'm talking about mainstream US cinema); Halloween did the same, and rather than being creator or innovator, Friday The 13th was just a mainstream studio operating within a framework Halloween created.   The elements that Friday the 13th added to the genre are just as creative and important as the elements found in Halloween. As you mention Halloween didn't invent those conventions in the same way that Friday the 13th didn't in invent the conventions that it uniquely added to the Halloween formula. Whether you value those conventions is irrelevant they ARE there and they ARE massively influential.  Frankly its a insult to Tom Savini to suggest that it lacks creativity. Shame on you.  Agreed, Daz. You could go back even further to Psycho and Peeping Tom as influences, as well as Mario Bava's films. Like I said, I think that Friday the 13th was influential in SOME way, but in no way was it a good influence. It influenced a whole bunch of countryside set slashers, none of which were any good at all, but even that influence is decidedly questionable as Bay Of Blood got there first almost a decade earlier.  As I said before obviously Friday the 13th owes a debt to A Bay of Blood but Friday is way more influential purely because a heck of lot more people saw it. Friday made just under $40 million domestic in its first year which got producers all frothy and a ton more were made off its back just as Friday was made off Halloween's success.  Halloween is the daddy but the explosion of films had as much to do with Friday the 13th.  EDIT - Friday The 13th Part 5 is my favorite comedy of all time. It's like a ridiculously violent episode of Scooby Doo. Apart from Jason Goes To Hell I love all the Friday 13th movies.  Couldn't agree more. Jason Goes to Hell is the really truly terrible movie in the franchise. It boarders on irredeemable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 The elements that Friday the 13th added to the genre are just as creative and important as the elements found in Halloween. As you mention Halloween didn't invent those conventions in the same way that Friday the 13th didn't in invent the conventions that it uniquely added to the Halloween formula. Whether you value those conventions is irrelevant they ARE there and they ARE massively influential. Frankly its a insult to Tom Savini to suggest that it lacks creativity. Shame on you.  Thing is, you've misquoted me.  Films like BC/TCM were slasher movies, yes, and the final girl trope was not a Halloween invention but Halloween did pioneer a tonne of Horror tropes. Friday the 13th didn't necessarily. Sure, as Gladders has done, you could argue that it has the 'out in the sticks' schtick but i've always thought that that was to concepts what the deux ex machina is to endings. It gave the writer the ability to bypass any creativity or any serious thought process. There was no need to overcome the obstacles of daily life, of greater human interaction, when you can just stick them in the woods and make them sitting ducks.  Having that as your influence on the horror genre is like bragging about being the first human to contract AIDS from a monkey.  I mean, sure, fucking a monkey is all well and good. Fun, some might say. But, if you'd stop to think about the consequences for human kind; would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members DEF Posted April 16, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted April 16, 2012 The elements that Friday the 13th added to the genre are just as creative and important as the elements found in Halloween. As you mention Halloween didn't invent those conventions in the same way that Friday the 13th didn't in invent the conventions that it uniquely added to the Halloween formula. Whether you value those conventions is irrelevant they ARE there and they ARE massively influential. Frankly its a insult to Tom Savini to suggest that it lacks creativity. Shame on you.  Thing is, you've misquoted me.  Films like BC/TCM were slasher movies, yes, and the final girl trope was not a Halloween invention but Halloween did pioneer a tonne of Horror tropes. Friday the 13th didn't necessarily. Sure, as Gladders has done, you could argue that it has the 'out in the sticks' schtick but i've always thought that that was to concepts what the deux ex machina is to endings. It gave the writer the ability to bypass any creativity or any serious thought process. There was no need to overcome the obstacles of daily life, of greater human interaction, when you can just stick them in the woods and make them sitting ducks.  Having that as your influence on the horror genre is like bragging about being the first human to contract AIDS from a monkey.  I mean, sure, fucking a monkey is all well and good. Fun, some might say. But, if you'd stop to think about the consequences for human kind; would you?  How have I miss quoted you?  What are these Horror tropes Halloween apparently invented? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Chest Rockwell Posted April 16, 2012 Moderators Share Posted April 16, 2012 The elements that Friday the 13th added to the genre are just as creative and important as the elements found in Halloween. As you mention Halloween didn't invent those conventions in the same way that Friday the 13th didn't in invent the conventions that it uniquely added to the Halloween formula. Whether you value those conventions is irrelevant they ARE there and they ARE massively influential. Frankly its a insult to Tom Savini to suggest that it lacks creativity. Shame on you.  What were the elements that it added to the genre? Daz has named what Halloween brought to the table - what specifically is the influence of F13?  Trying to follow the discussion here but I don't know a great deal about horror films.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JohnnyChimpo Posted April 16, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted April 16, 2012 What were the elements that it added to the genre? Daz has named what Halloween brought to the table - what specifically is the influence of F13? The first Friday the 13th movie made a shedload of money, and therefore spawned a bunch of sequels and inspired loads more people in the movie industry to copy the formula of "mysterious killer butchers a bunch of teenagers in an isolated environment, with some tits" and fuck all creativity or imagination going into the process. Thats its influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 How have I miss quoted you? What are these Horror tropes Halloween apparently invented?  In my initial post I said that whilst Halloween owes certain things to TCM/BC it invented a raft of horror tropes, whereas Halloween didn't to the same degree (or with the same positivity). You then replied saying i'd said 'Halloween didn't invent conventions'. It did. But it wasn't without certain influences. Nothing in the arts can exist without some influence but Halloween innovated, whilst Friday 13th capitalised on Halloween's success. Halloween is Scream and Friday the 13th is I Know What You Did Last Summer.  Because I'm of limited time, i'll do this instead;  Carpenter’s Halloween is a widely influential film within the horror genre; it was largely responsible for the popularization of slasher films in the 1980s. Halloween popularized many tropes that have become completely synonymous with the slasher genre. Halloween helped to popularize the final girl trope, killing off characters who are substance abusers or sexually promiscuous, as well as the use of a theme song for the killer. Carpenter also shot many scenes from the perspective of the killer in order to build tension. These elements have become so established that many historians argue that Halloween is responsible for the new wave of horror that emerged during the 1980s. Due to its popularity, Halloween became a blueprint for success that many other horror films, such as Friday the 13th and A Nightmare on Elm Street, would follow. The major themes present in Halloween would also become common in the slasher films it inspired. Film scholar Pat Gill notes that in Halloween, there is a theme of absentee parents but films such as A Nightmare on Elm Street and Friday the 13th feature the parents becoming directly responsible for the creation of the killer.  There are slasher films that predated Halloween, such as The Texas Chain Saw Massacre and Black Christmas which contained prominent elements of the slasher genre; both involving a group of teenagers being murdered by a stranger as well having the final girl trope. Halloween, however, is seen by historians as being responsible for the new wave of horror films because it not only used these tropes but also pioneered many others.  The 1981 horror movie spoof Student Bodies parodied these plot devices; characters are slain when about to engage in sex. Director Wes Craven's Scream (1996) details the "rules" for surviving a horror movie, even using Halloween as the primary example: no sex, no alcohol or illicit drugs, and never say "I'll be right back". [edit]  and, this, for shits and giggles;  Leonard Maltin initially awarded the film one star, or 'BOMB', but later changed his mind and awarded the film a star and-a-half stating "...simply because it's slightly better than Part 2." and called it a "...gory, cardboard thriller...one more clue to why SAT scores continue to decline."  and, this...  Variety claimed the film was "low-budget in the worst sense—with no apparent talent or intelligence to offset its technical inadequacies—Friday the 13th has nothing to exploit but its title." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members DEF Posted April 16, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted April 16, 2012 The elements that Friday the 13th added to the genre are just as creative and important as the elements found in Halloween. As you mention Halloween didn't invent those conventions in the same way that Friday the 13th didn't in invent the conventions that it uniquely added to the Halloween formula. Whether you value those conventions is irrelevant they ARE there and they ARE massively influential. Frankly its a insult to Tom Savini to suggest that it lacks creativity. Shame on you.  What were the elements that it added to the genre? Daz has named what Halloween brought to the table - what specifically is the influence of F13?  Trying to follow the discussion here but I don't know a great deal about horror films..  The special effects and the kills in F13 are certainly not unique to it but it was the first film to hit US pop culture they were then the template for many future Slashers.  The shock coda ending in the same way was recycled plenty after F13.  As has been mentioned the backwoods environment. Daz sites that it as negative which which is nonsense of the highest order. If isolation wasn't in Horror then the world would be a far worse place.  Then there's the who dunnit POV aspect of it. The importance of which can't be underestimated to the Genre.  I'm not suggesting at any point suggesting Friday the 13th invented these conventions I'm suggesting it popularized them. In the same way I believe Halloweens conventions were take from previous influences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.