Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted March 4, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted March 4, 2012 I don't think he's planning on sticking round for long, he's not even bothered to pick an avatar. Â Yeah, but Kiffy's still here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Maestro Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I was trying to think of WWE matches from recent years that would fit into this category and can't really think of anything off the top of my head. Are there any wrestlers on the current roster that have a reputation for stiffing opponents? Â I liked that Benoit/Regal match from No Mercy 2006 where Regal gets proper drilled with quite a few headbutts to the face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Halitosis Romantic Posted March 4, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted March 4, 2012 Kana had a reputation for being stiff with her kicks. Here, she kicks Hiroyo Matsumoto square in the face, and just knows she's going to receive a receipt for her trouble. And sure enough... Â That's fucking horrible... there's no need for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUNQ Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I miss the days when kicks in the face was expected. It's so rare today, so it's lovely seeing Kana do that from time to time. But then again the girls are not trained in the same way as they used to. Before AJW used to do extensive fight training including giving their trainees experience in Shootboxing to build a good 'chin' (to use a fighting expression) so they'd be more prepared to take the punishment without getting injured. But not many girls are that professional now-a-days to having a rounded training to take the beating joshi puroresu was famous for. Â One of my more modern stiff moments that stick with me was when Takayama defended the Triple Crown Title against Suwama on August 30, 2009. The 'headbutt from hell' I called it, leading up to the end, was amazingly brutal. Well, the entire match was hard as hell, but that's hardly surprising considering the two wrestlers in the match. Â Â Â --PUNQ-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsClobberingTime Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Surely wrestling isn't about that though? Â If you want to go kick someone in the face, there are plenty of other legal or non legal sports where you can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Joe Joe Jr Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Petey Williams art of wrestling podcast has some great Steiner stories from when they worked together in tna  "Gimma the Destroyer!"  I wish I could have witnessed that in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUNQ Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Surely wrestling isn't about that though? If you want to go kick someone in the face, there are plenty of other legal or non legal sports where you can do that. I'm probable a different generation wrestling fan then you. I see more and more people have that attitude about wrestling now. Being able to both give and take punishment is essential for top caliber wrestling. Stiffness is part of the game. An important part. It separates the mice from the men and real women in wrestling in a way. Don't get me wrong. It isn't all about stiffness. You got to be put in context and combine it with the other wrestling qualities. The way it was in the old days. When wrestling was at least a little bit real. Now it's so damn weak a lot of the time that it comes across as pretenders pretending to pretend fight. Too embarrassing for me. Before it was at least professional tough guys/gals having doing that.....   --PUNQ-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Aren't a large number of that generation of wrestlers either dead, broken down or drug addicts? Â As much as I enjoy the tales of older wrestlers kicking the shit out of each other and generally being tough guys, I can see why the younger generation might look at their crippled asses and think "hmmm". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsClobberingTime Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Just seems like a liability to me. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy perceived stiffness, and I enjoy other sports where they do kick the shit out of each other, but professional wrestling is just that - something that should be a softer and more sensible/safe version of the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members CleetusVanDamme Posted March 4, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted March 4, 2012 I was trying to think of WWE matches from recent years that would fit into this category and can't really think of anything off the top of my head. Are there any wrestlers on the current roster that have a reputation for stiffing opponents? Â I definitely wouldn't say he has the reputation of stiffing people, but Goldust had some really hard hitting matches with Sheamus on ECW in the summer of 2009, there was one he had with Regal on Superstars a couple of years ago that was pretty brutal, too. And there was a Smackdown match between Undertaker and Finlay that they both must have felt the next morning! I can't even think of a rough time frame when that was though, let's say 2006? Â I've been wanting to rewatch a Cat vs Jerry Flynn kickboxing/Karate match from one of the Georgia Dome Nitro's for years, they alternated between throwing piss-weak punches and then kicking each other full blast in the face. I think they got confused by the term "worked shoot" and decided to just go half and half. It was brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted March 4, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted March 4, 2012 Being able to both give and take punishment is essential for top caliber wrestling. Stiffness is part of the game. An important part. It separates the mice from the men and real women in wrestling in a way. Not often I quote Lance Storm, but I'd say he's bang on here: While I could see where people would love the All Japan style made famous by guys like Musawa, Kobashi, Kawada, etc I always thought it was too stiff and dangerous and therefore didn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUNQ Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Aren't a large number of that generation of wrestlers either dead, broken down or drug addicts? As much as I enjoy the tales of older wrestlers kicking the shit out of each other and generally being tough guys, I can see why the younger generation might look at their crippled asses and think "hmmm". Yeah, but the current 'safer' way hasn't exactly turned out revolutionary wrestling. It is a clear step (or many steps) backward as far as tallent developement goes letting weaker wrestlers set the standard. It's become a little too sissy-like compared to previous generations. It's difficult to buy the wrestlers as credible in a ring. Surely there is some kind of middle way solution where the new wrestlers can learn, but limit the damage the legendary generations did with their style.  Most of the deaths in wrestling was stupid out-of-the-ring culture of drugs and partying anyway, instead of using that time to recuperate and train to limit their injuries. And the deaths/broken down bodies that relates to the tougher styles could easily have been avoided with a minor adjustment in medical understanding/clearance from management/wrestlers. And that's where one can learn a lot from the mistakes of the golden age of wrestling. Of course bodies will break down at some point in any kind of fighting sport, but it can be limited if they learn to regulate a little.  And that's where that Misawa death is a perfect example of what I just said. Misawa was a accident waiting to happen. Anyone who followed the last 3 years of his career could see he was not fit to be in the ring. He was a hazard to himself and equally so to his opponents. I continually kept saying that in my review threads. But since he was the boss NOBODY dared to stop him and he felt he had to take responsability and step up since nobody else was able to. He took too much responsability and kept wrestling 'main event style' matches when he was way passed his prime and and most important while injured. And that's where a better understanding and a more critical view on medical clearance comes in. It was a death that could easily been prevented.  And for someone who's not a Jap-o-phobe and want to see 'Japs', or any other ethnicity for that matter, reach their highest possible potential so that we can get international wrestling buzzing again, I hope we get a tougher mentality with future generations in this game.   --PUNQ-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraserbee Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Being able to both give and take punishment is essential for top caliber wrestling. Stiffness is part of the game. An important part. It separates the mice from the men and real women in wrestling in a way. Not often I quote Lance Storm, but I'd say he's bang on here: While I could see where people would love the All Japan style made famous by guys like Musawa, Kobashi, Kawada, etc I always thought it was too stiff and dangerous and therefore didn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 That match where John Cena got a massive stotty on, while tagging with Trish Stratus is definitely up there. I couldnt blame him either. Â Â According a recent Keiji Mutoh interview it appears stiffness is an issue in All Japan, though they seem to have a remedy in place.... Â Pardon my ignorance but what do those things he's holding do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reznor Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Whats the point in such stiffness in wrestling to enhance realism, when matches are full of tonnes of shit that's completely unrealistic anyway? Any impact that legit strikes brings is surely negated when you then watch them do irish whips and suchlike? Â You can see why it would become an issue with the Bushido/UWfi type stuff, but it's all a bit silly and self-defeating in normal pro wrestling imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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