Raw discussion 16/1/12 thread *spoilers*

[PunkStep]

Anyway, I didn't think USA Network gave a shit about the ratings? So does it make that much of a difference? Or is it a case that they are looking so low that the network might start getting involved?

[tiger_rick]

Anyway, I didn't think USA Network gave a shit about the ratings? So does it make that much of a difference? Or is it a case that they are looking so low that the network might start getting involved?

I think a 3.0 is a decent cable rating for anything other than a football match. Historically the problem with low ratings has always been that it meant less advertising revenue but I'm not sure if that's still the case.

[moofasa]

Not the network the shareholders. The bigger the ratings the more people watching the more people to sell product. merch, live events. Ratings down, business down.

[tiger_rick]

Not the network the shareholders. The bigger the ratings the more people watching the more people to sell product. merch, live events. Ratings down, business down.

Ratings have been down for years. Not this low generally but well down. That's why they've looked at other ways of making money. Touring, making relationships with sponsors and merch'ing partners more profitable, producing varied merchandise and DVD's and cutting costs.

 

The company have to keep finding ways to be profitable. It's not as heavily reliant on TV ratings and buyrates as it was years ago. The domestic economic situation makes it important for them to exploit the emerging markets.

 

The only way to improve ratings though is to produce good, consistently entertaining, episodic television. There is no short term fix. It doesn't matter who the World Champion is, there are no genuine superstars.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Its been a bad year for WWE on that front as well though. The magazines are dying a death, the figures aren't selling as well as they had been last year and PPV business is lower than its been since the 90s. Merchandise in general is down from a year ago. Business is bad at the minute compared to their usual standards. WWE are still highly profitable business, but its been a bad year for them in terms of the overall business.

 

I dont think its the quality of the shows personally, because there have been some awful shows over the years that have drawn money for them. Its just that people want to see stars, and they've lost a load in the last 2 years. Batista, Jeff Hardy, The Undertaker, Edge, Triple H, Shawn Michaels (and DX as a unit, because they were selling a shit load of stuff), Rey Mysterio were all hugely popular with the kids, as well as the grown ups who would pay to see them on PPV. They seem to be aware of this, because they've tried to make CM Punk a big star, they've bought back names like Nash, Bret, Triple H, Booker T and Mick Foley, but it doesnt seem to have worked with some of those names. And The Rock's been their biggest draw this year, when it comes to making a difference at the box office (if you dont count how bad Survivor Series did). WrestleMania should be telling. Its hard to see a lot of the roster at the minute actually making it on the card, what with Cena, Rock, Undertaker, Triple H, Michaels, Shaq, Big Show, Jericho, maybe Austin, possibly (but not probably) Lesnar in some role and a load of other old boys, like Rob Van Dam and there's even talk of fucking Ric Flair being set for the event. There definitely seems to be a mentality where they are desperate to protect the old names when they come in, but dont seem to bothered about your Punks, Zigglers and Daniel Bryan's for the rest of the year.

[tiger_rick]

Agree with all of that Ian. I think the principle is the same though. They've missed the boat when it came to using stars to make stars. so the only way to do it going forward is to continue to book them like stars week after week after week. Get people tuning in every week and then get them telling their friends to tune in every week. It's going to be a slow process. Looking at quarter hours and booking on the fly isn't the answer and hasn't been for a long time.

[crazyshady]

The USA Network will only get involved if they personally aren't happy with the ratings and the ratings have been low for years now so i don't see that being a problem. I'm sure advertising time during WWE Raw costs a lot so if the day comes where WWE's loyal sponsors start questioning just how much they wanna pay for that advertising space then the USA Network will step in. As for the number of people watching, it really doesn't matter. Everyone is replacable, including all of you. All those fans they have lost over the years are gone, they ain't coming back, the only hope they have now is gaining new fans and with regards to there not being any superstars you can put that blame on WWE aswell. WWE made the exact same mistake they did in the 90's, they relied on the same people to front the shows rather than continue to create new stars adn that's another problem.........WWE being the creators, WWE are not very good at creating their own stars. Some of the biggest stars in this business were not created by one man sitting at a desk, they are extensions of that person's real personality. You can't create talent. You can't create a star.

 

In the mid 90's the young talent just weren't that good and like today's young talent.....they're just not that good. Very boring and bland and of course this whole PG thing is just a big farce. PG doesn't mean aimed at childs but WWE certainly do that. They don't try and do that because quite frankly they don't want to, that's a bitter pill to swallow for some of the long term fans, they're not the target WWE audience anymore. It's not the PG rating that's the problem or the hinderence, it's just that WWE don't want to have a mature program with storylines and violent content. PG is a hard rating for American networks, they would rather a G rating or TV14 or in extreme cases TVMA, there is very little difference between TVPG and TV14 infact, all those cuss words you could say on TV14 you can still say on TVPG, aslong as they network puts 'L' below it which warns the viewers of 'course language'. Blood? Blood is fine on TVPG. Smackdown, apart from the first few months on air has always been PG, Raw was PG until mid 1999. Blood's not a problem. TV14 always has been and always will be a 'cautionary' rating. It doesn't mean there will be anything offensive or shocking everytime you watch but in the offchance anything does happen it will cover the show and broadcaster and WWE certainly had angles where a PG rating would not have cut it

 

So just accept it. WWE is aiming for a family audience, PG is something that helps them out a little, most people automatically assume PG means a child friendly family audience anyway so that's good, WWE would not want you to think otherwise or God forbid start thinking for yourself. The warning signs have been there since around 2006, angles like DX and The Spirit Squad, Shawn Michaels vs Vince McMahon, John Cena, JBL, all those people were in feuds with similarly placed talent. No young stars got over or helped, Jeff Hardy didn't get pushed till late 2008/early 2009. Do you really think if WWE liked Jeff Hardy they would have waited all that time to give him a push? I think some of you really do sit with rose tinted spectacles on when watching WWE. Yous really can't see that WWE has made the exact same mistakes they always have, any bad situation they are in money wise or creatively is their own fault. Vince McMahon isn't a genius, maybe 20 years ago he was, maybe 20 years ago he came up with a few good ideas but in 2012? Vince is just an old joke who's only fond memories anyone over the age of 20 will have of him is him whoring his family out on TV for 3 years and blading himself during his matches and just me personally speaking here....i loved all that stuff and i'm pretty sure it wont be long before i see WWE superstars cutting their heads open with blades again. Be a nice change to the absolute shit that they churn out on TV now. Cody Rhodes? Ted Dibiase? The Usos? Absolute shite. And then this other idiot Daniel Bryan and CM Punk, good grief and the refs have earpieces in talking them through the matches pfft.......a sad sad sad state of affairs right there when you need a jabroni trainer in the back, who's only a trainer because they didn't have what it took to draw any money send instructions to the ref for the ref to pass onto the 'wrestlers' so they know what the fuck theiy're doing. I'm not gonna waste anymore time talking about this. And you Ian, sitting there saying 'oh WWE's lost so many stars these past few years', did you bother mentioning the fact that they're all still alive, they're not 6 foot under the ground yet. Most of them aren't there cause they don't wanna be there, even Flair doesn't wanna be there and Ric Flair is a real wrestler, not one of these young actor wrestlers like Cody Rhodes that needs a script and someone to talk him through his scenes. And as for Ric Flair being at the Hall of Fame, he is Ric Flair the legend, you don't tell Ric Flair he can't show up at his own induction ceremoney, TNA did the right thing letting him go in April and if Ric's got any sense left in him he'll walk right back out the door 12am Sunday night after Wrestlemania finishes back to TNA where real wrestling still exists.

[WWFChilli]

The USA Network will only get involved if they personally aren't happy with the ratings and the ratings have been low for years now so i don't see that being a problem. I'm sure advertising time during WWE Raw costs a lot so if the day comes where WWE's loyal sponsors start questioning just how much they wanna pay for that advertising space then the USA Network will step in. As for the number of people watching, it really doesn't matter. Everyone is replacable, including all of you. All those fans they have lost over the years are gone, they ain't coming back, the only hope they have now is gaining new fans and with regards to there not being any superstars you can put that blame on WWE aswell. WWE made the exact same mistake they did in the 90's, they relied on the same people to front the shows rather than continue to create new stars adn that's another problem.........WWE being the creators, WWE are not very good at creating their own stars. Some of the biggest stars in this business were not created by one man sitting at a desk, they are extensions of that person's real personality. You can't create talent. You can't create a star.

 

In the mid 90's the young talent just weren't that good and like today's young talent.....they're just not that good. Very boring and bland and of course this whole PG thing is just a big farce. PG doesn't mean aimed at childs but WWE certainly do that. They don't try and do that because quite frankly they don't want to, that's a bitter pill to swallow for some of the long term fans, they're not the target WWE audience anymore. It's not the PG rating that's the problem or the hinderence, it's just that WWE don't want to have a mature program with storylines and violent content. PG is a hard rating for American networks, they would rather a G rating or TV14 or in extreme cases TVMA, there is very little difference between TVPG and TV14 infact, all those cuss words you could say on TV14 you can still say on TVPG, aslong as they network puts 'L' below it which warns the viewers of 'course language'. Blood? Blood is fine on TVPG. Smackdown, apart from the first few months on air has always been PG, Raw was PG until mid 1999. Blood's not a problem. TV14 always has been and always will be a 'cautionary' rating. It doesn't mean there will be anything offensive or shocking everytime you watch but in the offchance anything does happen it will cover the show and broadcaster and WWE certainly had angles where a PG rating would not have cut it

 

So just accept it. WWE is aiming for a family audience, PG is something that helps them out a little, most people automatically assume PG means a child friendly family audience anyway so that's good, WWE would not want you to think otherwise or God forbid start thinking for yourself. The warning signs have been there since around 2006, angles like DX and The Spirit Squad, Shawn Michaels vs Vince McMahon, John Cena, JBL, all those people were in feuds with similarly placed talent. No young stars got over or helped, Jeff Hardy didn't get pushed till late 2008/early 2009. Do you really think if WWE liked Jeff Hardy they would have waited all that time to give him a push? I think some of you really do sit with rose tinted spectacles on when watching WWE. Yous really can't see that WWE has made the exact same mistakes they always have, any bad situation they are in money wise or creatively is their own fault. Vince McMahon isn't a genius, maybe 20 years ago he was, maybe 20 years ago he came up with a few good ideas but in 2012? Vince is just an old joke who's only fond memories anyone over the age of 20 will have of him is him whoring his family out on TV for 3 years and blading himself during his matches and just me personally speaking here....i loved all that stuff and i'm pretty sure it wont be long before i see WWE superstars cutting their heads open with blades again. Be a nice change to the absolute shit that they churn out on TV now. Cody Rhodes? Ted Dibiase? The Usos? Absolute shite. And then this other idiot Daniel Bryan and CM Punk, good grief and the refs have earpieces in talking them through the matches pfft.......a sad sad sad state of affairs right there when you need a jabroni trainer in the back, who's only a trainer because they didn't have what it took to draw any money send instructions to the ref for the ref to pass onto the 'wrestlers' so they know what the fuck theiy're doing. I'm not gonna waste anymore time talking about this. And you Ian, sitting there saying 'oh WWE's lost so many stars these past few years', did you bother mentioning the fact that they're all still alive, they're not 6 foot under the ground yet. Most of them aren't there cause they don't wanna be there, even Flair doesn't wanna be there and Ric Flair is a real wrestler, not one of these young actor wrestlers like Cody Rhodes that needs a script and someone to talk him through his scenes. And as for Ric Flair being at the Hall of Fame, he is Ric Flair the legend, you don't tell Ric Flair he can't show up at his own induction ceremoney, TNA did the right thing letting him go in April and if Ric's got any sense left in him he'll walk right back out the door 12am Sunday night after Wrestlemania finishes back to TNA where real wrestling still exists.

 

It was going 'Ok' until the third paragraph then I thought you veered into 'Twat'.

 

[simonworden]

I was having a think about this the other day and might start a topic on its own when I have more time. Now I dont think this is the only reason or the main reason, more just part of the issue with TV ratings and knowing how popular the product is. Technology has grown allowing more and more entertainment options to be available.

 

How many of us tune it at the same time to watch RAW, SD, IMPACT every week that it airs first time. With Sky Plus, Youtube and various streams and multiple repeats people watch the shows in many ways some more legal than others and of course changes the game. Something WWE and the networks are of course aware of. It's not like the 90s where if you miss the one showing without the use of a VCR you missed it

 

Advertising and new outlets can help to offset this risk and I would be interested to see if WWE use figues on how many people watch RAW/SD videos online to appeal to sponsors on extra viewers.

 

There are of course many more entertainment options out there for people as well these days and I could get into arguing the relevancy against wrestling and other factors but I will skip that for now.

 

To sum up keeping ratings steady is important but a decline shouldn't be a red alert situation if they can see people tuning in through other means. The key then is to make it more accessible, measurable and of course profitable down those means. If one day TV is fully replace with online streaming I would like to think if it made business sense and wouldnt only raise profit that WWE would be one of the first to become a fully online only TV show/ company on a big scale.

 

Im sure I have gone off on a tangent a bit but thought it was worth bringing up based on previous posts and it was in my head and I wanted to write it down (which makes me sound like a douche EDIT - but the chap above has deflected most of that away!)

[PepperPlunge]

YEAH! YOU TELL 'EM! TNA = WHERE REAL WRESTLING STILL EXISTS! FUCK YEAH!

 

If they start blading themselves, it'll be much better than watching someone like Cody. That's the solution, isn't it? Blood!

 

You're a goon. Stop trying to do promos on the forum.

[tiger_rick]

I was thinking, on top of the technology issue, about the economics in the US. Raw isn't free to air, it's on cable TV. So how many people can't afford cable anymore? To counter that, in times of economic gloom, don't people stay in more?

 

On technology, I'm sure that plenty of people watch "illegally". (That's in quotes because some people might pay for cable and watch in an "illegal" way. Like I pay for Sky and sometimes download it because my Sky+ doesn't record it. So I wouldn't count as a viewer but i wouldn't consider myself to be doing anything wrong.) However, I still think that comes back to the quality of programming. If the quality is there and the stars are there, people are less likely to wait to see it, they'll want to see it first run and in all it's glory. not two days later when they've had it spoiled.

[crazyshady]

YEAH! YOU TELL 'EM! TNA = WHERE REAL WRESTLING STILL EXISTS! FUCK YEAH!

 

If they start blading themselves, it'll be much better than watching someone like Cody. That's the solution, isn't it? Blood!

 

You're a goon. Stop trying to do promos on the forum.

 

Wonderful post tiger rick, it will win an award some day but excuse me just a minute, another hater of mine has decided to once again abuse me on here and try and bully me and this needs to be stamped out. I'll have my say here and then begone.

 

I couldn't give two shits about Cody Rhodes. I'm not trying to do 'promos's anywhere, I just say what I think and PepperPlunge? Isn't that a take on the Pepsi Plunge which just happens to be a move CM Punk used to do so yeah.......the day I start taking advice from marks like you is gonna be a sad sad day indeed. I couldn't care less about you either infact I was only giving my opinion and some cold hard facts on why the WWE is the way it is today, you know why? And this isn't a promo young man, this is me telling you the absolute truth. Wrestling is just a TV show. I watch to be entertained. I couldn't give a shit about any of them, i really don't. They're actors, entertainers, drug abuse? Their own fault. Suicide? Cowards way out. Weak weak weaknesses and i don't deal in weaknesses. Do any of them pay my bills? Are they related to me? Do they do me any favours? Naw no no they don't. They are performers on a scripted television show that is way past it's sell by date and everyone in the whole entire world apart from a small number of marks like you know that.

 

You just can't let go. Like an old battered wife that keeps running back to her man, she just can't say no to those black eyes he gives her. But you know what! My life isn't defined by the internet. I don't allow myself to get too caught up in all this so called drama, if it can even be called that, I already know I can talk rings around you and near everyone else i come in contact with, I've nothing to gain by putting you in your place i mean...I'm a good guy, I don't like to pick on the vulnerable, the mentally challenged ya know. It's not nice and quite frankly my big dinner this evening which is almost ready by the way, I don't wanna ruin it by thinking about you or spending anymore time replying to you. So if you don't mind and i know you wont, i'm gonna go set my table up for din dins, nice big meal, big cold drink, sit down and relax and eat dinner the way it should be ate. That's how i roll! I bet the only dilemma you have at dinner time or what is it you call it in England, supper time? Suppa tam innit, am gonna eat me suppa like innit looks well nice a fink. Nom nom nom eat me yorkshire pudding 'n' gravy love 'n'n a bit a mashed potato, mmmmm yummy gravy innit lol. The only dilemma you got is which knee to balance the plate on. I jest, I jest! There's nothing wrong with eating potatoes every night of the week. Keep you healthy!....I think. Well that's what they teach in schools. The same schools that teach religion and how to be model citizens. I'm sure they wouldn't lie.

 

Anyways i can smell the lovely food as I type. I'd offer you all a bit but......if you can afford to pay an internet bill then you can afford to feed yourselves.

[WWFChilli]

YEAH! YOU TELL 'EM! TNA = WHERE REAL WRESTLING STILL EXISTS! FUCK YEAH!

 

If they start blading themselves, it'll be much better than watching someone like Cody. That's the solution, isn't it? Blood!

 

You're a goon. Stop trying to do promos on the forum.

 

Wonderful post tiger rick, it will win an award some day but excuse me just a minute, another hater of mine has decided to once again abuse me on here and try and bully me and this needs to be stamped out. I'll have my say here and then begone.

 

I couldn't give two shits about Cody Rhodes. I'm not trying to do 'promos's anywhere, I just say what I think and PepperPlunge? Isn't that a take on the Pepsi Plunge which just happens to be a move CM Punk used to do so yeah.......the day I start taking advice from marks like you is gonna be a sad sad day indeed. I couldn't care less about you either infact I was only giving my opinion and some cold hard facts on why the WWE is the way it is today, you know why? And this isn't a promo young man, this is me telling you the absolute truth. Wrestling is just a TV show. I watch to be entertained. I couldn't give a shit about any of them, i really don't. They're actors, entertainers, drug abuse? Their own fault. Suicide? Cowards way out. Weak weak weaknesses and i don't deal in weaknesses. Do any of them pay my bills? Are they related to me? Do they do me any favours? Naw no no they don't. They are performers on a scripted television show that is way past it's sell by date and everyone in the whole entire world apart from a small number of marks like you know that.

 

You just can't let go. Like an old battered wife that keeps running back to her man, she just can't say no to those black eyes he gives her. But you know what! My life isn't defined by the internet. I don't allow myself to get too caught up in all this so called drama, if it can even be called that, I already know I can talk rings around you and near everyone else i come in contact with, I've nothing to gain by putting you in your place i mean...I'm a good guy, I don't like to pick on the vulnerable, the mentally challenged ya know. It's not nice and quite frankly my big dinner this evening which is almost ready by the way, I don't wanna ruin it by thinking about you or spending anymore time replying to you. So if you don't mind and i know you wont, i'm gonna go set my table up for din dins, nice big meal, big cold drink, sit down and relax and eat dinner the way it should be ate. That's how i roll! I bet the only dilemma you have at dinner time or what is it you call it in England, supper time? Suppa tam innit, am gonna eat me suppa like innit looks well nice a fink. Nom nom nom eat me yorkshire pudding 'n' gravy love 'n'n a bit a mashed potato, mmmmm yummy gravy innit lol. The only dilemma you got is which knee to balance the plate on. I jest, I jest! There's nothing wrong with eating potatoes every night of the week. Keep you healthy!....I think. Well that's what they teach in schools. The same schools that teach religion and how to be model citizens. I'm sure they wouldn't lie.

 

Anyways i can smell the lovely food as I type. I'd offer you all a bit but......if you can afford to pay an internet bill then you can afford to feed yourselves.

 

WANK

 

Sorry everyone, but on this occasion it's hard not to justify it.

[PepperPlunge]

YEAH! YOU TELL 'EM! TNA = WHERE REAL WRESTLING STILL EXISTS! FUCK YEAH!

 

If they start blading themselves, it'll be much better than watching someone like Cody. That's the solution, isn't it? Blood!

 

You're a goon. Stop trying to do promos on the forum.

 

Wonderful post tiger rick, it will win an award some day but excuse me just a minute, another hater of mine has decided to once again abuse me on here and try and bully me and this needs to be stamped out. I'll have my say here and then begone.

 

I couldn't give two shits about Cody Rhodes. I'm not trying to do 'promos's anywhere, I just say what I think and PepperPlunge? Isn't that a take on the Pepsi Plunge which just happens to be a move CM Punk used to do so yeah.......the day I start taking advice from marks like you is gonna be a sad sad day indeed. I couldn't care less about you either infact I was only giving my opinion and some cold hard facts on why the WWE is the way it is today, you know why? And this isn't a promo young man, this is me telling you the absolute truth. Wrestling is just a TV show. I watch to be entertained. I couldn't give a shit about any of them, i really don't. They're actors, entertainers, drug abuse? Their own fault. Suicide? Cowards way out. Weak weak weaknesses and i don't deal in weaknesses. Do any of them pay my bills? Are they related to me? Do they do me any favours? Naw no no they don't. They are performers on a scripted television show that is way past it's sell by date and everyone in the whole entire world apart from a small number of marks like you know that.

 

You just can't let go. Like an old battered wife that keeps running back to her man, she just can't say no to those black eyes he gives her. But you know what! My life isn't defined by the internet. I don't allow myself to get too caught up in all this so called drama, if it can even be called that, I already know I can talk rings around you and near everyone else i come in contact with, I've nothing to gain by putting you in your place i mean...I'm a good guy, I don't like to pick on the vulnerable, the mentally challenged ya know. It's not nice and quite frankly my big dinner this evening which is almost ready by the way, I don't wanna ruin it by thinking about you or spending anymore time replying to you. So if you don't mind and i know you wont, i'm gonna go set my table up for din dins, nice big meal, big cold drink, sit down and relax and eat dinner the way it should be ate. That's how i roll! I bet the only dilemma you have at dinner time or what is it you call it in England, supper time? Suppa tam innit, am gonna eat me suppa like innit looks well nice a fink. Nom nom nom eat me yorkshire pudding 'n' gravy love 'n'n a bit a mashed potato, mmmmm yummy gravy innit lol. The only dilemma you got is which knee to balance the plate on. I jest, I jest! There's nothing wrong with eating potatoes every night of the week. Keep you healthy!....I think. Well that's what they teach in schools. The same schools that teach religion and how to be model citizens. I'm sure they wouldn't lie.

 

Anyways i can smell the lovely food as I type. I'd offer you all a bit but......if you can afford to pay an internet bill then you can afford to feed yourselves.

 

I can't be bothered to read past the lines I read on the first paragraph. What the fuck are you on about? "You know why? And this isn't a promo young man, this is me telling you the truth." - WHY ARE YOU SPEAKING LIKE THIS ON A FORUM, YOU MUG? And do you know my age?

 

And why are you so bothered about whether we watch WWE? You write these big replies about...in fact, I've just glanced at the first line of the second paragraph about 'not allowing yourself to get caught up in all this drama' and how your 'life isn't defined by the internet'. Why are you posting such long responses to such a trivial thing then? You're awful at trying to be holier than thou.

 

EDIT: I like Dr. Pepper a lot. That's the main reason for my username. I haven't watched ROH regularly since it was on TWC and even then I didn't keep up to date with it much. Not that it matters...

[Duke]

Stop trying to cut promos you waste of human life. You'll sit there and say you aren't, but you are. It's evident from your terrible writing style. Your sub-sub-average intelligence and odious demeanour mean you'll never be good at it. For someone who doesn't care you spend a shit load of time writing (probably planned, because let's face it, you're an idiot) responses on the internet to a load of people you apparently don't care about. Have a fucking word with yourself.