xear Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I thought Raw was really good this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted January 17, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 There was never any danger of the crowd turning on Punk. Punk's done nothing wrong. Ace has been in the wrong all along. He was the one aligned with McMahon, he was the one pulling the strings to get Triple H fired and he's been the one antagonising Punk every week. They did a great job of always leaving a little bit of doubt but Punk has never been the heel in the feud. His promo was absolutely brilliant. He didn't come across like a twat, he was very cool, like Steve Austin. As he should've been all along. People loved Punk when he was a knob, been all nicey doesn't suit him. Agreed. To add to this, Punk has been screwed out of wins and titles by Ace for months now, so he has every right to go off on him. Ace is playing the sleazy corporate type, that is all smiles to your face but is trying to plot a sneaky Ace Crusher when you're out of the room. Ace even confirmed what Punk has been saying for months, he is out to get him, blatantly saying he is going to screw Punk out of the title at the Royal Rumble. I'd side with Ace if he hadn't spent months plotting the demise of certain wrestlers. Plus he had a cheap shot at King Moob himself, 'loveable' Mick Foley. The crowd were lapping it up.  Anyway, Raw was indeed fantastic and that final segment was gold. Punk was back to his blistering best (it's been a while since he's been that good) and Ace gave his best performance yet.  It's a shame Kane sucks so much, as he's kind of killing this "embrace the hate" thing. Cena was terrific embracing the dark side.  I agree with whoever said the terrible acting of Zack Ryder is killing him. WWE did, however, make him look like a big deal when he kicked out of two Gutwrench Powerbombs, shame the commentators and the crowd don't care for Swagger or his finish.  Funk is still on a roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moofasa Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Completely agree. Anyone bitching that "Punk is the heel" is just someone who (for whatever reason) has just decided they don't like Punk's character, and that's that! Steve Austin was a massive bastard to loads of people, didn't stop his character being Face, likewise with The Rock. Â Its different in that Austin and the Rock were massively likeable characters, Austin was never a smart arse, and when the Rock was he was comical and enteraining. Punk is not on that level of likeability by any stretch. And when he's a makes smart comments to Laurinaitis though amusing, the way he does is not likeable. Got no problem with Punk just feel in 2012 his personality will not allow him to be babyface. Would you really want to go for a pint with him? No. you wouldn't and neither would he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 17, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Would you really want to go for a pint with him? Fair play if that was deliberate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Its different in that Austin and the Rock were massively likeable characters, Austin was never a smart arse, and when the Rock was he was comical and enteraining. Punk is not on that level of likeability by any stretch. And when he's a makes smart comments to Laurinaitis though amusing, the way he does is not likeable. Got no problem with Punk just feel in 2012 his personality will not allow him to be babyface. Would you really want to go for a pint with him? No. you wouldn't and neither would he. Â Â Steve Austin was a massive cunt to almost everyone wasn't he? Likeable in a completely fucked up way - yeah, but not exactly "go for a pint with" material either. Half of the time he ended up stunnering whoever happened to be in the ring with him at the end of a segment, didn't matter who it was, male/female, wrestler/commentator whatever... Â Steve Austin didn't have any friends, cared for no-one (with the occasional exception of JR) and beat up whoever he wanted. Yeah, sounds a great bloke to have a pint with! Â I don't think CM Punk wants to go for a pint with anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig The Hunter Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 So, the first Raw in weeks I haven't been able to watch live and it's the best in bloody ages. Glad I recorded it. Â The main event and the stuff after was fantastic. I shat all over the Jericho return at first, but that was excellent tonight. And then Punk and Ace were brilliant at the end. Really enjoyed that. Â Plus the Funkosaurus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moofasa Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Austin was throwing beer bashes and driving monster trucks with Debra or some other blond. Â Punk drinks pepsi and goes on cycle rides with Colt Cabana. Â One's a bastard or SOB and ones a snivelly little cunt. Theres a difference and you couldn't describe Austin as snivelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members WWFChilli Posted January 17, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 I don't feel Punk is the heel, Big John has been shown to an absolute political stooge throughout his run and he dipped Triple H on his job as well. I love Big John as the Mr. Nicey Nice GM who's secretly a fucking shit. It's brilliant. Sure Punk isn't Austin or Hogan as a face, but he is the face in the storyline. I wonder if people would feel the same if it was someone else playing Punk's role in the same way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members WWFChilli Posted January 17, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Austin was throwing beer bashes and driving monster trucks with Debra or some other blond. Punk drinks pepsi and goes on cycle rides with Colt Cabana.  One's a bastard or SOB and ones a snivelly little cunt. Theres a difference and you couldn't describe Austin as snivelly.  Wait he doesn't drink beer so he's a heel? And why the fuck would CM Punk be driving a monster truck. if he did people would say that's shit because Austin did it. Punk isn't a cunt, he's smart enough to know Johnny Ace is a two faced shit who just plain doesn't like Punk from all the way back to July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 17, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Austin was throwing beer bashes and driving monster trucks with Debra or some other blond. Punk drinks pepsi and goes on cycle rides with Colt Cabana. Must've missed that episode of Raw. If we're talking real life though, Austin is a wife beater and the lowest of the low. So Punk wins.  One's a bastard or SOB and ones a snivelly little cunt. Theres a difference and you couldn't describe Austin as snivelly. Nor Punk last night. He was a bastard SOB. Wasn't that the complaint in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Up Chuck Posted January 17, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Anyone bitching that "Punk is the heel" is just someone who (for whatever reason) has just decided they don't like Punk's character, and that's that! Â Except that I've been a huge Punk fan for almost a decade, and when he started out like this, I loved it. I have his t-shirt, for god's sake! And I was singing his praises when he was consistently being great last year. Â I just feel like he's nowhere near as likeable a bastard as Austin or Rock - he has an element of smarminess sometimes. As I said the other week, his charisma has an arrogant streak to it, and he has to moderate it carefully. And with some of the stuff he throws at Laurinaitis, he sounds like a bit of a dickhead to me. The guy was a not-so-great wrestler in the 80s, so switched career paths to stay in the business - what does that prove for Punk? And pulling the jealousy card is a classic heel promo tool. Clearly my opinion isn't shared by a great many people, though, including most of those going to the shows, so it's not a big deal. Â More generally, what I would like is if they just made it a bit more clear-cut. I feel like every week Punk is dressing down Laurinaitis, always getting one up on him verbally, then getting screwed out of matches in ways that are too easy to explain away from Laurinaitis' perspective (ejecting Vickie and Swagger, fixing the turnbuckle pad that's been the cause of screwy finishes in the past, etc). There's no heat for me. Ace kinda-sorta screws Punk, Punk rants at him next week, so Ace kinda-sorta screws him again, wash, rinse, repeat. The ambiguity of Ace's interference is a level of subtlety that's not needed and hampers the feud. I think the reason it's succeeded is because the babyface vs authority figure setup has been so deeply ingrained into their storylines ever since Austin was around. WWE have to be glad that they set up that context. Â And I think the reason it bugs me so much is that I WANT to get into this feud. If you'd told me last year we'd be getting anti-authority Punk vs corporate stooge Laurinaitis kicking off the run-up to Wrestlemania, I'd have been ecstatic. But now it's happening, I just can't get into it, because I feel like it could be so much simpler and so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyUK Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Yeah, that was a good RAW. They've got multiple storylines going on at once for a change, which is one of the reasons the Attitude Era was so entertaining. Â The opening segment with Ziggler, Foley and Punk was great. Ziggler cut a great heel promo and Foley showed that he's still got it when it comes to being great on the mic. Looking forward to a Ziggler/Foley feud if that is where they're going and with Foley also putting himself in the main event, it seemed a bit like they're going for a grizzled veteran that can't accept his career is over character but that might not have been their intention. Â Cena snapping was an interesting development in this Kane storyline and the main event was very well done . It continued all of the major storylines. Punk's promo was really good and Johnny Ace snapping was also great. I do have to agree a bit with the poster above though that Ace did come across as a bit sympathetic. If they actually manage to finish the conspiracy storyline they had and reveal him as the mastermind then maybe I'd feel a bit differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted January 17, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 They've run a nice slow burning Authority vs. Babyface feud that doesn't follow the same formula as all the others but sets the ground nicely. This week they turned it up a notch, established both sides properly, given both an undisputed reason to hate the other and given fans even more reason to get behind CM Punk. Punk was ace last night. Ace was ace last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vice Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Excellent Raw. Â Ziggler and Foley were both great in the opening segment. I'd love to see those two feud, especially if it's the climax of a storyline in which Foley keeps coming just short of his Wrestlemania dream. Have they done that with him before? Â R-Truth was funny and a real treat. As said earlier in this thread, they've got the balance pretty much right with him at the minute. Â Daniel Bryan's pulling off the more gradual heel turn marvellously. Â Jericho continues to amaze. It's funny, original and clever, and for me the highlight of the show 3 weeks running. Â Hokiness aside, Cena's vaguely Luke Skywalker-style storyline is intriguing and refreshing. Â I did feel some sympathy for Big Johnny, but nonetheless terrific, heated stuff from both him and Punk in the final segment. But tiger_rick is right; the ambiguity in this feud was definitely a better way to go. Â And, after being quite critical of him last week, I actually didn't mind Brodus Clay this week, which is a good sign considering that I dislike those sort of gimmicks. I don't think The Funkasaurus has a very long shelf-life, though. Â Looks like we're on the top quality road to Wrestlemania again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tom Posted January 17, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 The end of RAW was fucking brilliant with Punk delivering his best promo in a long time, Foley at his typical old best and Ace producing a brilliant pay off to weeks of subtle attempts to anger Punk. It's difficult to properly put into words just how good it all was and how much you just didn't want it to end. After Jericho continued the intriguing storyline and garnered even more boos by sodding off when everyone was desperate to share in a feel good moment of in-ring return, you didn't want the angles to stop there, after Foley beat Otunga you didn't want it to stop there, when Ace reversed the decision you didn't want it to stop there, when Punk exploded you didn't want it to stop there and when Ace lit a flame underneath himself and battered Foley with the mic you wanted them to roll right in to next week's show. Â A lot of people have been wondering for months now why Punk wasn't reproducing his pre-MITB level of promos and the simple truth is that he hasn't really had much to say in his promos without coming across as either trying too hard or even appearing to be a bit of a moaner. Punk seems to work best in terms of promos when something has been eating away at him over a period of time and he's tried to not let it get him pissed but he reaches a point where he can't keep it in any more and he explodes into a heartfelt promo. Â The brilliance of the promo that started it all last year was that Punk seemed to genuinely believe every word he said and you could see that he had wanted to say it for the longest time, and up until the last few weeks he had no reason to cut a promo like that. WWE have done a brilliant job of slowly building up Punk's grievances and annoyance to a level where you could be led, with a little persuasion, to believe that they hate each others guts for real and that arguments like this have gone on previously between Punk and management. Ace is perfectly under-stated most of the time to the extent that you could slowly see weeks of anger and annoyance bubbling to the surface as the show went on and the way he finally lost it really was brilliantly done. Â I really enjoyed the stuff with Cena and the weeks of every-increasing hokey segments involving Kane have nicely set up the whole premise of this feud which is Cena slowly becoming consumed with hatred without even realising it. Cena was pretty much spot on with everything he did this week from berating Ace, to delivering a convincing fucking battering to Swagger and finishing it off with his reaction to Kane's celebration of Cena's anger. I don't see that this will lead to a heel Cena but instead a more aggressive and violent version of him ready to go through the evils of the Elimination Chamber on route to the biggest match of his life at WrestleMania. Â I'm not sure how it was possible but the Funkasaurus was even bloody better than last week. I demand that if Swagger keeps the US title that he has to feud with Clay over the strap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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