Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted January 2, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 2, 2012 So Monday Night Football at the ass-end of the NFL regular season has had nothing to do with it? No. Because the reason his reign is being seen as a faliure is because the regular viewing audience is turning off during his segments. And the overrun with CM Punk involved is gaining the lowest its ever been. If you have a champion on top and people arent watching Raw thats one thing. But to have your regular viewers switching off during the champions segments is a completely different problem. He isnt chasing people off who want to watch NFL. He's chasing off people who want to watching wrestling, but not him. Thats why Cena is now in the final segment of Raw again. Because the highest spike of the night (the overrun) has been drawing embarrassingly low numbers ever week since Survivor Series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members unfitfinlay Posted January 2, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 2, 2012 First one that popped into my head was Kennedy but for a different reason than already mentioned. Â WWE were so high on him that they planned a massive storyline (two, really, if you include the Vince dying angle) that would've made Kennedy not only a focal point of the company but a MCMAHON, which could realistically have made him a Main Eventer for the rest of his career. Â ....and then he volunteered to go on TV and talk about how tough the companies steroid testing was, which would've been awesome if hadn't actually been taking steroids at the time. He got busted and exposed so WWE HAD to suspend him, put Hornswoggle in the spot and turn the whole thing into a comedy storyline (the payoff of which, I'm fairly sure, ended up being Finlay vs JBL). I think he got injured after his suspension but even if he hadn't, there was no way they could've used him in a prominent position while the Benoit story was still in the news. Â Maybe not a "push" as such but I still find it hilarious that Amy Zidian got a job in WWE and fucked it up by insulting Vickie Guerrero and then asking Stephanie McMahon who the fuck she was to give her advice on promos. Â Also wasn't Nailz supposed to feud with The Undertaker before he got fired for attacking Vince? If so that's a pretty spectacular one. Â Has anyone mentioned the Shockmaster yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted January 2, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 2, 2012 NEWM got in there before me, CM Punk definatly. He was given the rare responsibility of writing his own promo's, got an immense amount of screen time and has just bottled it really. Looking at the ratings, it seems the folks at home agree. Â So Monday Night Football at the ass-end of the NFL regular season has had nothing to do with it? Nah, some of Punk's worst numbers have been when the Monday game has had low figures. Â It's also worth noting that Punk doesn't universally drive people away. He's had overruns that have done ok, but not John Cena-type numbers and Raw has been doing crap in the second hour for months (I remember Cena v Henry, with Kane's return not doing nearly as well as you would expect). His recent numbers ARE terrible though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Comparing Punk to Cena as a top guy is a bit unfair at this point. Cena has had about 8 years of the WWE promotional machine solidly behind him as a main event star. Punk hit the main event scene for the first time in mid 2008, against JBL. Some may say Cena's start in the main event scene was against JBL as well, but as early as 2003, Cena was having feuds with Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle and Undertaker, so he had a strong basis before becoming champion, being portrayed as hanging with the best of the best. But, for the sake of comparison, we'll take Cena's first title win in 2005, and fast forward 3 years to 2008. Cena was feuding with Triple H, Randy Orton, JBL and Batista. Then, we'll take Punk's first title win in 2008, and fast forward 3 years, bringing us roughly to now. Punk's feuding with The Miz and Alberto Del Rio, two guys who aren't quite established themselves yet, and now appears to be entering a feud with... Johnny Ace? It appears on the surface that WWE are giving Punk a chance to run with the ball, but when you look at Cena's rise and run at the top, it's apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Foale Posted January 3, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 3, 2012 Scott Hall fudged up in 2002 when he showed up at Insurrexion drunk out of his skull. He could've stayed there for years, maybe win the title finally, put some new stars over and been a valuable asset to the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 To be fair to Hall, given the reasons behind his addiction, I think it's a little harsh to blame him for it. Hall's just one of those cases where there doesn't seem to be very much that can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Foale Posted January 3, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 3, 2012 True, it's just a shame to think of what could have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepperPlunge Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I think NEWM is being well harsh by calling his matches 'midcard', he's had some right belters this year. For me, it's the one area where he has looked up to it. Â I don't mean to be harsh, I'm just feel like I'm watching an IC Title match instead of a topliner. It's not a criticism as such, because they're entertaining in their own way, they're just not the sort of match I expect from a WWE headliner. The closest he's got to that is with (not at all coincidentally) John Cena and HHH, because he slows shit down, does less springboards out of bastard nowhere, and pays more attention to his facials and whether the crowd are into it or not. At the risk of sounding like a miserable old cunt, I just feel like he needs to watch some old tapes. It comes back to my original point of crowd connection. Though, I totally agree that he's turned a corner a bit on that front since Survivor Series. Â He gets some flack on here, but I reckon The Miz is WAYYY underrated at having these matches. His Lawler and Orton matches earlier this year were good examples of him belonging up there with the guys who can do it already, and he's got a million more in him. Dolph Ziggler is a fucking blast at the moment, but he too needs to pull some of it back a bit when it comes to the big stage. He's compared a lot to Mr Perfect, and most people accept he was a perfect midcarder and only fodder at Main Event level. Dolph will fall into that if he's not careful. I, shockingly, disagree. For me, wrestling is about variety and it's part of the problem WWE have at the minute. When business was super hot those couple of times, the top talent had different styles that stood out. A Hogan match was different to a Savage match, for example. I'm sure some folk back in the day were saying "slow shit down and less top rope axe handles from out of bastard nowhere" too. I'd also use his matches at 'Mania, Money In The Bank, Summer Slam, Survivor Series and TLC as evidence against you saying 'he needs to listen to the crowd more'. The fans lapped all that up and some were the most heated bouts this year. Â I agree completely with NEWM and have felt exactly the same way. Part of his problem is the GTS isn't a great finish. The Anaconda Vice is alright. I remember him doing GTSs on Kane in 2008 and thinking 'hold on...'. He went through a phase earlier this year where he was missing half of them. He's got better with them now but it's still not a great finish. That's also part of the reason why Dolph doesn't come across as a main eventer. Â And you're right - The Miz might not know all of the holds (neither does Punk to be fair), but he generally places emphasis on facial expressions, doing the OTT heel sell job, pacing matches and listening to the crowd. I just think he has his priorities right. Rey wrestles a different style to the other main eventers but he places emphasis on the fundamentals - selling, body language and knowing when to pull the trigger on his big moves. He's been injured for a while but he still managed to put on great matches just doing that. They're fundamentals and mastering them is crucial to being a successful main eventer. Personally, I think a big problem is Punk's references (films and insider references). However, that's what makes him different and got him to where he is. It's a double edged sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members gmoney Posted January 4, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 4, 2012 Sin Cara. He was HHH's baby, but fuck up, after botch, after injury has meant his position is in jeopardy. Not to mention his alleged attitude backstage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Galt Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 And the t-shirt with a dick on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insert_name_here Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Wasn't the British Bulldog supposed to be in line for a World title run when he signed with WCW only to fuck it up by beating up a copper and getting arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalaxyV.2 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Wel '97 was my favourite year of wrestling in the WWF, ratings dont' always dictate quality. I get he's hardly been a roaring success but I wouldn't say he's 'fucked up' as of yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted January 4, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 4, 2012 So Monday Night Football at the ass-end of the NFL regular season has had nothing to do with it? No. Because the reason his reign is being seen as a faliure  Who sees it as a failure? He gets huge face pops on TV and PPVs(bigger than Cena in most places), his t-shirts are selling like fucking mental (which is a huge deal) and all house show reports are saying that the fans are going absolutely crazy for him.  The guy's performance isn't perfect but one of if not the overwhelming biggest problem to his babyface run at the top (because he is now a genuine main eventer in the company and the fans eyes) is he doesn't have a geuine heel to face off against. Every good guy needs a mortal enemy and there isn't a single heel established enough to make the fans rally behind Punk that much more. As exciting as Dolph Ziggler is, I'm not paticularly intrigued by his fued with Punk because I know it's not going to lead anywhere and I know that Dolph isn't a threat to Punk's belt. Why is anyone going to go out of their way to watch or pay for something they already know the result too?  And all this talk of ratings and PPV buys is boring as fuck and none of it should be put on Punk's shoulders. When the return of The Rock does barely anything to raise ratings of PPV buyrates it shows a problem with the whole product, not just one person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowball Fighter Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'd elect a different group of wrestlers, who really need to blame themselves more (than they realise) for their current lack of main-event status etc. Â Samoa Joe and his ilk. Guys who think having a technically impressive match is where it's at. Guys who care more about the star-rating their matches get, than how over they can be with the average potential viewer. Â Remember, Joe HAS been pushed. He has been in the spotlight, and main-evented PPVs etc. Yet he apparently doesn't care enough about the entertainment aspect. He doesn't care about his image enough, or his promos enough, or ANYTHING BESIDE HIS MATCHES enough. Hence why he has inadvertently doomed himself to be a mid-card smark-pleaser. Â Joe COULD have taken off bigtime, and been a much more relevant fixture in TNA if he'd done things differently along the way. Have to remember, the creative process is collaborative. If guys can show that they really 'get it' then they get more and more opportunities to speak for themselves and subsequently get over. Â That's kinda what's happening with Storm right now. He apparently gets it, he has worked on himself, so TNA are more inclined to go somewhere with him. IF, on the other hand, Storm had made little progress personawise, and was alllllll about his Meltzer-approved in-ring performance, he'd still be one of the "poor me!" TNA originals irked by his lack of push, wondering why guys like Hogan, Angle and Sting have been permitted to hog so much airtime the last few years etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 And all this talk of ratings and PPV buys is boring as fuck and none of it should be put on Punk's shoulders. When the return of The Rock does barely anything to raise ratings of PPV buyrates it shows a problem with the whole product, not just one person. Â Whilst your point about the PPV buys is somewhat valid, if Raw viewers are actively switching off the show when Punk comes on (as they are) then that must be blamed upon him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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