Paid Members LaGoosh Posted January 4, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 4, 2012 Personally I don't really buy into the whole ratings stuff about viewer figures dropping per segment argument and never have. It seems too erratic to be a proper measurement. You watch Raw or a PPV and usually half the crowd is wearing CM Punk t-shirts, going nuts for the guy and holding up CM Punk signs but then apparently the people watching at home (who will also be all the people that attend the live events) are turning over when he comes on TV...makes no sense. And the argument of "they have put Cena back in the ending spot because Punk's ending spots gets bad rating" doesn't fly with me either. If the quality of the show preceeding the ending spot is high then people will be most likely to hang on till the end. If everything before the final match/angle/segment is boring or shite then who's going to want to stay till the end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 People who think 'blimey, that Cena geezer who's motherfucking awesome's still to come, I wanna see what he does'? And while I'm not saying it's my view on Punk, since I haven't seen much RAW for a while, there's obviously a difference between being over with a live crowd and being enthralling enough to keep me tuned on the idiot box. That's obvious given the amount of British wrestlers who are fun to watch live but are as boring as buggeration on the old lantern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Personally I don't really buy into the whole ratings stuff about viewer figures dropping per segment argument and never have. It seems too erratic to be a proper measurement. You watch Raw or a PPV and usually half the crowd is wearing CM Punk t-shirts, going nuts for the guy and holding up CM Punk signs but then apparently the people watching at home (who will also be all the people that attend the live events) are turning over when he comes on TV...makes no sense. And the argument of "they have put Cena back in the ending spot because Punk's ending spots gets bad rating" doesn't fly with me either. If the quality of the show preceeding the ending spot is high then people will be most likely to hang on till the end. If everything before the final match/angle/segment is boring or shite then who's going to want to stay till the end? Â Yeah, I don't buy into this whole "facts" thing either. Â Thing is though, Punk's segments are high calibre, since they usually involve Lauranitis. Which tends to imply it's not Lauranitis who's causing the ratings to go down, it's more to do with Mr. Smug himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowball Fighter Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Punk doesn't resonate with the majority of people with a television in their house. He is just a guy in merch shirt and trunks like 80% of the rest of the roster. Â His promo delivery is AMAZING, but the content of his promos is generally weak and unrelatable (I am dee BEST! I know a cool REFERENCE! Err, ice cream BARS!) His stories have been weak. Why would some crappy no-consequences main-event with ALL the merch shirt and trunk snores in it rate well?! Obviously not gonna happen. Could have had a wedding angle with ANYBODY in it. Which would have out-performed that cobbled together nothingness... And that's not to say the wedding angle would have been 'good' or 'better' just more likely to rate well. Â So, not really his fault. He could easily be one of the top guys, with crossover potential, for years to come (if some creative tweaks were made etc. Better context for things. Less boring wrestling) But it is partly his fault... As he is essentially the equivalent of the TNA guys whining about their lack of push etc. Until he realises that the Heyman, ROH, MMA influenced niche thinking is leading him astray, he will underperform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepperPlunge Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Punk doesn't resonate with the majority of people with a television in their house. He is just a guy in merch shirt and trunks like 80% of the rest of the roster. Â His promo delivery is AMAZING, but the content of his promos is generally weak and unrelatable (I am dee BEST! I know a cool REFERENCE! Err, ice cream BARS!) His stories have been weak. Why would some crappy no-consequences main-event with ALL the merch shirt and trunk snores in it rate well?! Obviously not gonna happen. Could have had a wedding angle with ANYBODY in it. Which would have out-performed that cobbled together nothingness... And that's not to say the wedding angle would have been 'good' or 'better' just more likely to rate well. Â So, not really his fault. He could easily be one of the top guys, with crossover potential, for years to come (if some creative tweaks were made etc. Better context for things. Less boring wrestling) But it is partly his fault... As he is essentially the equivalent of the TNA guys whining about their lack of push etc. Until he realises that the Heyman, ROH, MMA influenced niche thinking is leading him astray, he will underperform. Â Yeah, absolutely. Good two first posts. Al Snow said about how if you ask a wrestling journalist what the best match of Wrestlemania III was, they'd likely say Steamboat/Savage. But his view of the best match was Andre/Hogan as that was the money match. 5 star matches mean nothing if they're doing nothing for business and I agree with that. Over the top characters in a soap opera story is what draws ratings. You need to have 'workrate' wrestlers to fill a role, usually in the midcard as it's a variety show. I never understood why wrestlers bought into the whole '5 star match' thing so much when they should be looking at themselves as a brand with USPs and catering themselves to the tried and tested formulas of what makes money. I mean, I'm sure Benoit made a lot of money as well as being a magnificent wrestler but he is one of a kind. He was one of the best wrestlers in the world. If you excel at being a great wrestler, you can make it to the top and make money. But it's a lot harder in the long run and you're more likely to accumulate injuries. Orton said on his DVD that Patterson told him to drop the dropkicks and cross bodies as he'd be more likely to get an injury and he didn't need to do that kind of thing. Â EDIT: Every time I see the thread title, this comes in my head: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaY8SZsIutk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted January 4, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 4, 2012 Who sees it as a failure? He gets huge face pops on TV and PPVs(bigger than Cena in most places), his t-shirts are selling like fucking mental (which is a huge deal) and all house show reports are saying that the fans are going absolutely crazy for him. Again, your asking questions already answered a million times. The WWE obviously see it as a failure. Have you not noticed that he WAS in the final portion of Raw every week and now ... isnt? The other night he was at the top of the hour. He's now being put in the TNA Knockouts portion of the show, so the least amount of fans turn off as possible. You say his t-shirts are selling like mental, but thats not true. He sells t-shirts, fair enough, but so does Zack Ryder and nobody in their right mind would think he's worthy as a champion. Santino does as well. There's one thing selling merchandise to the current audience and its another being a standout draw. And as far as crowd reaction, that has never meant anything ever. If you brought back Hacksaw Duggan as a regular character, he'd be far more over than most of the roster. But he'd mean very little. Â Its not even some agenda against him. The facts are there. The quarter hours featuring Punk are lower than they've been in well over a decade, and go up when he's not on screen, the house shows with Punk headlining dont do that well and the experiment of putting him as a PPV headliner died as well. Its why they are trying things like bringing back Jericho and a masked Kane. They need a quick fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tom Posted January 4, 2012 Author Paid Members Share Posted January 4, 2012 Again, your asking questions already answered a million times......They need a quick fix. Do you think, in that case they've got anyone asides Cena who could stimulate ratings as the main guy with the title? As much as I like Ziggler, I think he would face the exact same problems if he wins the title at the Rumble for example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepperPlunge Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 That's my problem with people saying 'future WWE champ!!!' He probably will be, but I doubt he'll be a successful one in terms of business. He's not entertaining enough. He doesn't have the character. He sounds like a high pitched nerd. He'll likely win it but I don't see him as a figurehead or merch shifter. He has #HEEL all over him. What relevance does that to have to anyone other than the internet fans who will watch, and a lot won't pay to watch, anyway? They're clearly trying to find him a character as is evidenced by him changing music, not being a show off, being a show off etc. Show off will not take off. It's a midcard gimmick. He'd likely be more successful as a face but they have enough of them at the moment. Â Unfortunately, I'm not sure who can turn business around. Cena still has years left in him. He's only about 33 isn't he? They need a very good heel. Skip Sheffield? He's younger than he looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted January 4, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 4, 2012 Do you think, in that case they've got anyone asides Cena who could stimulate ratings as the main guy with the title? As much as I like Ziggler, I think he would face the exact same problems if he wins the title at the Rumble for example Probably not, to be honest. Its Cena's company now. He such a massive part of WWE, and they've hammered the point home to the point that he's hard to replace. Nobody outsells his merch over the full year, nobody draws fans in, nobody does better at the house shows, nobody draws advertisers and sponsors. Thats why I cant see then turning him heel ever. Who could replace him on top? The Miz? Punk? R-Truth? If people think its bad with Cena on top, imagine what it would be like with the alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted January 4, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 4, 2012 The WWE obviously see it as a failure. Â Then why is he still the champion? If he was such a failure they would have chucked the belt back on Cena already. Â Have you not noticed that he WAS in the final portion of Raw every week and now ... isnt? Â I hadn't noticed actually, I'd be interested in seeing evidence of this. Cena is still the company figurehead in the companies eyes. They want to keep him in the main slot ready for The Rock at Wrestlemania. It makes sense to put him forward as the top guy ending the shows. Â There's one thing selling merchandise to the current audience and its another being a standout draw. Â But WWE don't have a standout draw and haven't done so for years. Even The Rock's first match in years makes no difference to pay per view buyrates anymore. Cena has been positioned as the standout draw but with him on top for the past 8 years or whatever it is TV ratings and PPV buyrates have steadily decreased. Â the experiment of putting him as a PPV headliner died as well. Â It takes more than one guy at the top of the card to sell a PPV. WWE have become spectacularly shit at promoting their PPV's for years now and they have more of them than ever. It's not like they were drawing 500,000 buys a month and as soon as Punk got to the top business dropped like a lead balloon. If The Rock can't draw a respectable PPV buyrate or TV audience then who the fuck can? It's a problem with the product, not with what CM Punk is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted January 4, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 4, 2012 You should pay more attention then LaGoosh, and you'll notice how these things work. I cant be arsed to answer questions that have already been answered a million times. If you want answers to your questions, read the thread. I will answer this though: Â Then why is he still the champion? If he was such a failure they would have chucked the belt back on Cena already. Â The belt isnt the thing that people are turning the TV off for. He'll lose that belt (just like Daniel Bryan will soon). But currently, they are just shifting him down the card and replacing him with a bigger star, so the main portions of the shows arent delt a hammer blow in viewership by putting someone in that position that people dont want to watch. Its how things have always worked. Why didnt they give the belt back to Hogan in 1990 when the Warrior bombed? Because they could easily just put Hogan in a highly promoted match on the card to paper over the cracks and not do anything drastic. In other words, Cena doesnt need the belt to draw high quarter hours, so why reshuffle the deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members CleetusVanDamme Posted January 4, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 4, 2012 I don't care about buyrates or tv ratings, it doesn't prove anything! Â I'll still bring up how buyrates and ratings have fallen during Cena's time at the top, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted January 4, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 4, 2012 Actually I said that I don't buy into quarterly rating breakdowns. I think the overall ratings of a show and PPV buyrates are definitely important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Its 2012, what about all the people downloading, youtubing and DVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Bellenda Carlisle Posted January 4, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 4, 2012 Its 2012, what about all the people downloading, youtubing and DVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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