raw Discussion Thread

[RepoMan]

If Punk had stormed the ring during Cena's title presentation (possibly with Colbana in tow) and security chasing him down you would believe it. If a taped interview had aired during a match (with the storyline that he had broke into the production truck nWo style) you believe it. Last night's segment just made things a bit flat for the section of fans watching who thought that this was a ground breaking moment in wrestling.

Why would you have believed it? Sitting in the crowd with a ticket, or having a run in, or endless other 'outside interference' moments are just as 'fake' as anything else in wrestling. Punk doing that would clearly have solidified his return under contract just as much as any other way he came back. All these 'cool' ideas are simply and obviously wrestling-based booking, and would not have added to the realism.

 

Yes, I agree some off-screen antics would have added to the mystery, but when a guy is that hot, you want him on your show. Especially if you're building up to something.

 

And I don't see why Cabana ever needs to be involved, other than the random name dropping. I mean seriously, they had him IN CHICAGO and did nothing with him. They did not mention him by name, even though he was shown a few times. If you want to bring in a guy like him, then do it then. He'd have zero impact just being 'in tow' because the majority either don't know him, or don't care about him.

[DJ Kris]

The problem is that the indy/internet stuff was only ever going to appeal to a small minority. To keep it going for too long could've actually killed Punk's momentum that he picked up around MITB. I mean he got over based on what he did on TV after all.

But that's simply not true. So many people use social networking such as Twitter or Facebook, I barely know anyone who doesn't. The stuff Punk was doing has spread around such places and with access to youtube and so many people having camera phones, the internet is no longer a small number of the fan base.

 

 

I imagine the inevitable Unification match will spawn the new belt.

Not a chance. If they had any intention of replacing the ugly piece of shit they'd have done it when they had to make a new belt to replace the one Punk walked out with.

 

A lot of people agree that keeping him of TV longer could have built him up better but for me it wasn't the fact that he was brought back so soon but in the style it was done. The way he came to the ring in his wrestling gear, down the ramp and to music (even if it was his ROH music) just screamed "Wrestling Angle!!!" in a storyline that seemed to be breaking new ground.

I just assumed this meant Triple H had resigned him rather than a continuation of the unsigned champ angle. Very disappointing to me. They're gonna need to pull something out the bag to keep me tuning in between SummerSlam and Royal Rumble!

[RepoMan]

But that's simply not true. So many people use social networking such as Twitter or Facebook, I barely know anyone who doesn't. The stuff Punk was doing has spread around such places and with access to youtube and so many people having camera phones, the internet is no longer a small number of the fan base.

I don't use 'internet' as a casual reference to people who use the internet. Of course the internet is used by a huge amount of people. However, I think we all understand that there is a section of fans who use the internet far more in terms of wrestling discussion, news, insider references etc than other casual viewers. It's why fan booking is always so shit and never makes it to TV - because the majority of audiences would shit all over it, and not have a clue what was going on.

 

If the 'internet' fans want to throw Cabana out there and expect him to have any kind of impact, they're completely wrong.

[PepperPlunge]

Why would you have believed it? Sitting in the crowd with a ticket, or having a run in, or endless other 'outside interference' moments are just as 'fake' as anything else in wrestling. Punk doing that would clearly have solidified his return under contract just as much as any other way he came back. All these 'cool' ideas are simply and obviously wrestling-based booking, and would not have added to the realism.

 

Yes, I agree some off-screen antics would have added to the mystery, but when a guy is that hot, you want him on your show. Especially if you're building up to something.

 

And I don't see why Cabana ever needs to be involved, other than the random name dropping. I mean seriously, they had him IN CHICAGO and did nothing with him. They did not mention him by name, even though he was shown a few times. If you want to bring in a guy like him, then do it then. He'd have zero impact just being 'in tow' because the majority either don't know him, or don't care about him.

 

I think perhaps people would be able to suspend their disbelief more if they'd have done it that way. A lot will be explained next week but I'm presuming Triple H has given Punk a good deal where he gets a lot of what he wants.

 

Without knowing where they're going with the story line, it's hard to say anything. I'd have preferred CM Punk coming in through the crowd and using social network sites to keep his name about but he'd have to have had a match sorted by Summerslam. It feels rushed but they're in an unfortunate position. They had to do the storyline when they did because of the contract situation and the last match needing to be in Chicago to get that reaction. So the Punk vs. Cena match had to be at Money In The Bank yet Punk needed to be back for Summerslam or else that PPV would have felt flat and they've hardly announced matches at the moment as it is. If they'd have had him come back at Survivor Series, The Rock would overshadow him and if he'd have come back at Royal Rumble it'd have been predictable and may have become stale by then. Maybe they could have brought him back the Raw after Summerslam but that storyline is distracting from Summerslam and that's where all the focus needs to be. They had to bring him back now rather than next week as they needed the headline match stated sooner rather than later. The image of the two with the belt was a good way of stating that it was the main event of Summerslam without having to say anything.

 

Raw got a 3.2 rating by the way. Not sure if it's been said yet or not.

[PepperPlunge]

I don't use 'internet' as a casual reference to people who use the internet. Of course the internet is used by a huge amount of people. However, I think we all understand that there is a section of fans who use the internet far more in terms of wrestling discussion, news, insider references etc than other casual viewers. It's why fan booking is always so shit and never makes it to TV - because the majority of audiences would shit all over it, and not have a clue what was going on.

 

If the 'internet' fans want to throw Cabana out there and expect him to have any kind of impact, they're completely wrong.

 

I'm not sure how they would use Cabana, but I've always thought it was a mistake getting rid of him (unless he asked for his release). He'd be an entertaining comedy wrestler along the lines of Santino and on top of that he can wrestle. I rarely watch indy wrestling but he's always stood out to me.

[RepoMan]

I think Cabana has his place, but as you say, he's generally a comedy wrestler and how would they have had a debut of a guy you're meant to laugh at alongside Punk who, at that time, was an all-out heel (even if the crowd were behind him). Perhaps there's room for Colt going forward depending on how Punk develops but who knows. I like their association off-screen, but that works for the fanbase.

[DJ Kris]

I don't use 'internet' as a casual reference to people who use the internet. Of course the internet is used by a huge amount of people. However, I think we all understand that there is a section of fans who use the internet far more in terms of wrestling discussion, news, insider references etc than other casual viewers. It's why fan booking is always so shit and never makes it to TV - because the majority of audiences would shit all over it, and not have a clue what was going on.

You're missing the point. Someone didn't need to come online and go looking for wrestling related stuff. Al they needed to do was log onto their Facebook or Twitter. I found out about the Comic Con and the Indie show through stuff friends posted on Facebook. Fair enough if you're the only wrestling fan among your group of friends, you probably won't find out.

[RepoMan]

It hasn't been hugely mainstream though, and to be honest, unless you already have an interest you probably wouldn't take any notice of the Comic Con stuff, for example. I'm not missing the point, I just disagree.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

My brother and my Dad casually watch it and if there is something they dont understand on the show they are either confused or ignore it. If I was watching Burn Notice or something I watch occassionally but not religiously and they made reference to a previous I'm never compelled to do any research on it. Its been proven since the internet got popular, unless your a hardcore follower wrestling fans are not to arsed to hunt the internet for inside information. Everyone uses the internet, but not every wrestling fan looks at wrestling on the internet. A small percentage of the whole viewing audience will even be bothered to research something like that. I could never imagine a situation where my Dad or someone would actively search the internet because someone on TV has debuted they havent heard of. Wrestling fans have short attention spans when it comes to watching wrestling. They needed the Montreal Screwjob explained to them when Bret Hart came back. Little Archie isnt going to care about looking on Facebook to find out who Colt Cabana is. He just wants to play with his figures and play on the WWE Allstars game.

[ColinBollocks]

My brother and my Dad casually watch it and if there is something they dont understand on the show they are either confused or ignore it. If I was watching Burn Notice or something I watch occassionally but not religiously and they made reference to a previous I'm never compelled to do any research on it. Its been proven since the internet got popular, unless your a hardcore follower wrestling fans are not to arsed to hunt the internet for inside information. Everyone uses the internet, but not every wrestling fan looks at wrestling on the internet. A small percentage of the whole viewing audience will even be bothered to research something like that. I could never imagine a situation where my Dad or someone would actively search the internet because someone on TV has debuted they havent heard of. Wrestling fans have short attention spans when it comes to watching wrestling. They needed the Montreal Screwjob explained to them when Bret Hart came back. Little Archie isnt going to care about looking on Facebook to find out who Colt Cabana is. He just wants to play with his figures and play on the WWE Allstars game.

I have a few mates that watch more WWE than me, but they never go on the internet to find stuff out or post on forums. If I was to mention Dave Meltzer, they'd not have a clue who he is. In fact, if it wasn't for me telling them about the CM Punk/Comic-Con thing they would never have known about it. Again these are people that watch as much weekly WWE as they can.

[Mr.Showtime]

Not a chance. If they had any intention of replacing the ugly piece of shit they'd have done it when they had to make a new belt to replace the one Punk walked out with.

If Punk wins a 'unification' match he may have it in his 'contract' that he'll be changing the title, he did say on TV a while back he probably would.

 

I can't believe the amount of folk here arguing over pops and reactions to certain parts of the show. Nothing, nothing was ever going to compare to MITB. Zack Ryder didn't get a big pop because it was a 'surprise' entrance and people would need to remind themselves whose music that is when it hits. CM Punk didn't get a pop as big as other times because it was the debut of a new song and people had no idea who was coming out, from where, and more importantly when. How do you get a massive burst of a pop in those circumstances? You don't.

 

As someone who's been actively avoiding news sites and spoilers before shows now due to the CM Punk story, I've found the majority of shows much more entertaining than if I knew what 'might' happen. Friends of mine who have started watching again since the CM Punk stuff began were begging for him to show up on Monday - therefore, it was the right decision.

 

And, as mentioned just above while I typed, some have to remember that WWE need to cater to their majority of fans - those who might not be old enough to even be allowed their own Facebook pages yet, not be allowed to trawl through YouTube, and who wouldn't know who Colt Cabana was if he came up to them and threw a fake punch to the face.

[RepoMan]

The Ryder thing was a bit weird, as were JR and Morrison's returns. I think with it being HHH announcing them, a lot of the crowd expected someone big. Now, JR seemed to get a decent reaction, but I doubt anyone was anticipating him. And then Morrison, no one seemed to care about.

 

I liked Ryder getting HHH's support but, even though I have been wanting to see him on TV, I must admit I was a bit 'oh, him?' about him being the surprise opponent.

[d-d-d-dAz]

The last episode of Long Island Iced Z! has had 44,000 views. The episode before has had 107,056 and I believe the most watched episode of the series had just over 400,000 views.

 

Even at the very top end of the scale, if we assume that those views only came from the US then that would mean, on average, 8000 viewers per state. Assuming all of those viewers bought tickets to the show, only half the arena would be aware of Zack Ryder. Considering those maths are nonsense, and the figure is probably far, far lower it is not surprising that he's not getting killer pops.

 

One day, soon, people will start to realise just what a small, at times insignificant, fraction of the audience the internet makes up.

[LaGoosh]

This seemed to be the first time in awhile that they had a sell out for Raw as they turned the house lights all the way up and the show looked alot better for it.

[1SinN6]

They could have talked about punk more often. Even if 'vince' doenst want the name to me mentioned. It seemed strange that Cole for instance didnt defend punk as the rightfull owner of the belt.

 

Everything happend waaaay to soon anyway, months of storyline gone in weeks. I don't care how hot punk is. You could have done more with this angle. Ratings prob wont change with him gone for weeks and i dont' see summerslam doing a million buys just because of Punk and a semihot angle.