Boxing Thread

[ColinBollocks]

As an aside, this thread made me remember this:

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by ColinBollocks

[David]

52 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

That probably factors in, but Klitschko looked beyond disinterested that night. 

I re-read a tweet earlier on from the time and it said "its as if Klitschko woke up this morning and decided he didn't want to be world champion anymore".

So you'd rather believe that a guy who'd went unbeaten for over ten years, soundly beating all before him during that time and who was recognised as the lineal world heavyweight champion just decided that night "fuck it, I can't be arsed no more" than give the guy who beat him the credit he deserves for carrying out the job?

You want to know why he lost? Because he went in there with someone who, despite being a bit simple, just so happens to have a really good head for boxing and who carried out the game plan for beating him perfectly. Not only did he beat him, but he hardly even broke a fucking sweat. 

Let's face it, if that was an American fighter who'd done that after all those years he'd be lauded as a fucking national hero, bringing the Heavyweight title back to where it belongs and all that jazz.

But over here? Nah, it was smoke and mirrors mate. The champion wasn't interested. Least amount of punches thrown in a fight ever etc etc.

I'm fully prepared to hear exactly the same excuses if Fury beats Wilder. "Nah, he wasn't all that good anyway mate," "one-trick pony, was never gonna win it," "not a patch on Joshua, AJ woulda killed 'im"

 

[Egg Shen]

Its not that at all Dave, i gave Tyson props for winning the fight, as terrible as it was, he got the job done. You also seem to be forgetting that im the one who brought up the fact that i believed public opinion of Tyson's abilities had swayed post-Klitschko and that people were maybe getting a little carried away. 

Again though, i think he looked bad Saturday and if hes not improved drastically by fight night hes getting ironed out by Wilder.

[wandshogun09]

I definitely think Fury beat Klitschko on merit and not because Wlad was disinterested. I just think Wlad was flustered by Fury's style. And I was giving Tyson almost no chance going in. But I should've. Wlad isn't used to fighting someone as big as him. He was usually always the bigger man and was able to dictate the range because of the reach advantage he enjoyed. So he'd just work behind that barge pole jab and occasionally throw that big straight right down the pipe. And it worked for fucking years. But looking back I think Fury being so big, moving so much and so well and constantly switching stances and stuff, it bamboozled Wlad to a point where he didn't know how to tackle this big nutter and just stood watching Fury for large spells. And Fury nicked what turned out to be crucial rounds that ended up winning him the fight. That's how I see the fight anyway. Also, Wlad fighting how he did against Joshua shits all over the theory that he was disinterested and just going through the motions. You can't switch it on and off like that. If he didn't care anymore against Fury he wouldn't suddenly get that desire back to the point he's going to war with Joshua. 

I do feel like Fury's résumé has been slightly overrated and I'm not having that he dominated Klitschko like a lot of people say now. But even still it was a performance I didn't think he had in him, and like he keeps saying, he "finds a way to win". In the end, that's the most important thing. If he wasn't the character he is it'd be more of a problem but Fury being Fury, I don't think it matters so much that his fights aren't the best to watch because he does enough between fights to keep his name in the headlines and entertain people. 

Over the last couple of days I've heard a fair bit of criticism of Fury's performance on Saturday. I think it's kind of harsh. The consensus from people I've spoken to seems to be "It was shit. He'll get battered by Wilder". But if you know anything about Tyson Fury you don't go in expecting Gatti vs Ward. He's never been that type of fighter. I understand people saying he should've got Pianeta out of there. I feel like he could've put Pianeta away with a sustained attack, and when he upped the aggression a bit in one of the later rounds I thought the end was near but he stepped off. I genuinely think he wanted to get the rounds in. But I don't think he looked bad at all. He was moving well, was never hit with anything meaningful, he didn't look particularly tired later on etc. The only thing he didn't do was finish. But this is the problem with these kind of 'blow off the cobwebs' fights. You treat them like a jobber like Fury did to Seferi and you get criticised for fighting a joke opponent, people say you 'need to get proper rounds in' and all that. But if you go the distance, get that much needed ring time in, work on ironing out the kinks and knocking the rust off, you get shat on for going the distance with a bum. You're kind of damned whatever you do in these kind of fights but I think they're really necessary for a fighter coming back off a significant layoff. It's why I had no problem with Haye's couple of can fights on Dave, or Amir Khan fighting Lo Greco. The critics love to moan about these squash matches but the alternative, coming back and going straight in with a 'real' opponent, VERY rarely works out. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by wandshogun09

[Egg Shen]

Thats fair game wand. I understand the need to go the rounds, but even so i wasnt overly impressed with what i saw, Tyson post fight said he felt it was one of his greatest ever performances, i honestly scratch my head at that. 

I still dont feel Tysons boxing skillset is his main attribute as some people try to convince us of, its that he takes what he does have and combines it with his massive frame and clumsy un-athletic abillity to form one big awkward fucker. Hes a unique case no doubt.

[jimufctna24]

24 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

Wlad isn't used to fighting someone as big as him. He was usually always the bigger man and was able to dictate the range because of the reach advantage he enjoyed. So he'd just work behind that barge pole jab and occasionally throw that big straight right down the pipe. And it worked for fucking years. But looking back I think Fury being so big, moving so much and so well and constantly switching stances and stuff, it bamboozled Wlad to a point where he didn't know how to tackle this big nutter and just stood watching Fury for large spells.

That's my read on that fight. I think Fury would have always given Wlad problems. A lot of people didn't recognise it beforehand but it was a great style match-up for Fury. 

If they did a super series of boxing for the best heavyweights (Wilder, Fury, Joshua, Whyte, Parker, etc) and had to bet my life on the victory, I would pick Fury. I just think the Wilder fight might be coming a bit too soon for him and he might get caught. 

[David]

2 hours ago, Egg Shen said:

Thats fair game wand. I understand the need to go the rounds, but even so i wasnt overly impressed with what i saw, Tyson post fight said he felt it was one of his greatest ever performances, i honestly scratch my head at that. 

I still dont feel Tysons boxing skillset is his main attribute as some people try to convince us of, its that he takes what he does have and combines it with his massive frame and clumsy un-athletic abillity to form one big awkward fucker. Hes a unique case no doubt.

Oh come on, Ebb. You can't understand why a boxer who prides himself on being able to outbox his opponent, his ability to throw punches and not take any in return would see a 12 rounder in his 2nd comeback fight after a layoff where he outboxed his opponent and took virtually no punches as one of his greatest performances?

What would constitute a greatest ever performance in your opinion? A right tear up where both guys are on the floor, busted open and just swinging like maniacs?

As for his main attributes, there have been lots of tall, awkward, weird-looking boxers over the years. Why haven't they seen the success he has? It's because while most guys his size are lumbering goons with two left feet who rely on a knock out punch, he's got the size coupled with the ability to box. His hand speed is vastly underrated, his footwork is second to none, especially in the heavyweight division.

You've seen enough boxing to know that Ebb, come on man.

[HeavyT]

Fury is a good boxer but looks to have lost a few steps in his comeback. 2 wins over chisora, thr ko of Cunningham  aand Wlad are some decent wins. I'd say wilder has a more impressive record if you miss out wlad  but the guys been around forever and only caught up recently. 

He looks more laboured now, was going back in straight lines and his speed and power are a tad off. I like him but Wilder will catch him if they fight next. Another 2 fights time? Way more of a chance.

AJ is hardly a fraud, overrated a bit but the guy has unified titles and built an impresaive CV pretty quick.

[Egg Shen]

I think i'll leave it there, we'll go back and forth on this all night.

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

I might have asked this before but who is considered the best name on Wilder's record? Chris Arreola, Bermane Stiverne, Audley? 

[David]

9 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

I think i'll leave it there, we'll go back and forth on this all night.

Away and have a think about it, Ebb. Seriously. 

I'm not saying Wilder can't win, but the stuff about smoke and mirrors and Wlad not being arsed is the kind of stuff I expect from a boxing novice, not a hardened vet of the squared circle like yourself.

[Gooner]

5 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said:

I might have asked this before but who is considered the best name on Wilder's record? Chris Arreola, Bermane Stiverne, Audley? 

Luis Ortiz.

[Keith Houchen]

15 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

I think i'll leave it there, we'll go back and forth on this all night.

Unlike Tyson Fury who just goes back AMIRITE??!!

[wandshogun09]

@Lion_of_the_Midlands Without looking up his record, Luis Ortiz springs to mind. It's probably him and Stiverne for me. But even Ortiz, wasn't there something with his blood pressure being sky-high? 

This is the thing with Wilder. I like him but we just don't know how good he is because he's not been in with a Klitschko type. That's a good thing with this fight coming up. If Wilder beats Fury it's a big scalp. The biggest, by far, of his career to date. 

Edited August 21, 2018 by wandshogun09

[Carbomb]

1 hour ago, David said:

As for his main attributes, there have been lots of tall, awkward, weird-looking boxers over the years. Why haven't they seen the success he has? It's because while most guys his size are lumbering goons with two left feet who rely on a knock out punch, he's got the size coupled with the ability to box. His hand speed is vastly underrated, his footwork is second to none, especially in the heavyweight division.

Pretty much this. The only other similar guy I can think of who had anywhere near a comparable record (and apart from a win over an ancient Holyfield, I don't know most of his opponents' names) is Nikolai Valuev.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Carbomb