Boxing Thread

[Keith Houchen]

1 hour ago, David said:

My belief is that when you have someone who's simply ignorant through lack of education the right approach isn't to hammer them and force them further into their views. 

Same sort of situation as DA MELTZ, I guess.

[Egg Shen]

3 hours ago, boytoy said:

You are bang on about his fights usually being slow, plodding affairs though but he has the character that makes everyone overlook that. After the debacle of Seferi getting pulled out the lack of spite might have been deliberate. Fury needed rounds and this was always going to go the distance unless he got into trouble. It was more like a public spar than a boxing match.

It would be a phenomenal achievement for him to beat Wlad in Germany and then go to the states and win the WBC belt. I'd be pretty confident of 2015 Fury doing it but not sure about now. His game plan surely has to be to beat Wilder on points so makes sense to get 30 minutes under his belt first. In boxing, these kind of comebacks rarely end well though.

I understand the need to get rounds in, but Fury for me showed no kind of form or conditioning that leads me to believe hes ready for Wilder (not Joshua for that matter). I genuinely believe that Fury's team and Warren know that Fury's on borrowed time until he goes off the rails again and they are cashing in on a Wilder fight whilst its in their lap. 

Eddie Hearn detailed recently that the reason he didnt sign Fury on his return was because Wilder laid a couple of years plan where he would fight opponents of very low quality. Hearn said he would have been crucified by the fans if he'd followed through with Fury's plan. Eddie could be bullshitting but i dont think he is in this case... Fury himself claimed he offered to fight Joshua on his return fight which has to be bollocks. I think Fury's weight loss has probably gone faster than expected and they are cashing in whilst they can.

Both Wilder and Fury probably think they are getting a sweet deal here though. Wilder is getting a past it Fury and Fury is getting  an incredibly limited Champion that he probably thinks he can befuddle. 

They've filmed a face off today, Warren said its the best of it type thats ever been filmed. The build so far has been weird. I know fight hype is all done with a wink and nod because its all about selling the fight but Wilder and Fury are playing up on it hard but being friendly at the same time, on Saturday Fury got up in Wilders face got heated, got his photos and a soundbite then 10 seconds later they bumped fists and posed for photos. A bit half arsed for me.

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Egg Shen

[jimufctna24]

I liked Elliot Worsell's take on the fight:

It's similar to what EBB wrote on the previous page. Styles make fights and all that. 

Quote

 

Fury, on the other hand, has always been a fine talent, a man whose movement, composure and all-round skill-set belie the fact he’s six-nine and eighteen stone. Those who share a ring with him talk in glowing terms about his variety, his engine and his jab, and Wladimir Klitschko, the champion Fury dethroned in November 2015, would talk in similar terms if his defeat to Fury hadn’t been so demoralising. The problem is, by the time he fights Wilder, that breakout performance will have been three years ago. Worse, in that time, he will have boxed only Sefer Seferi (four rounds) and Francesco Pianeta (ten rounds).

To ignore this detail, or presume Fury is somehow immune to inactivity, ring rust or a lack of decent competition, is to overlook the thing that often decides close fights and, moreover, discard the very excuse offered for opponents like Seferi and Pianeta in the first place. Fury, after all, fought those fall guys not because he enjoys easy fights and easy wins, but because he wasn’t yet ready for tough ones. We were told this. It was made clear. “Be patient,” was the line. So, while Fury, 27-0 (19), might have the size, temperament and talent to beat Wilder, 40-0 (39), maybe even make him look silly and teach him a lesson, it will take a brave person to pick him on the limited post-Klitschko evidence available. We know he was once good enough; we don’t know if he’s still good enough.

Believers will remind you of the ease with which Fury defused Wladimir Klitschko’s power in Dusseldorf, and persuade you he’ll do similar to Wilder, but that’s the kind of skewed logic that never really works in boxing. It’s true, of course, that Fury, 30, shut the Ukrainian down. But it’s true, equally, that Wladimir Klitschko’s refusal to take chances and pull the trigger was as much a deciding factor as Deontay Wilder’s eagerness to do both could be in November or December.  Wanting to be sure, wanting to feel safe, Klitschko waited. He then waited some more. Yet Fury’s size and style introduced anxiety to the mind of a man who had long taken the feeling of being comfortable for granted; who always had his opponent within arm’s reach; who never had to punch up, much less take a risk. Alas, he didn’t let loose.

Deontay Wilder, in stark contrast, doesn’t think like that. Doesn’t do much thinking, full stop. Reckless and unruly, he punches when it’s time to punch (read: when gloves are on his hands), he pulls the trigger, even when the chamber’s empty, and he backs himself to land something, somehow, anywhere, knowing that should this happen, should his fist so much as glance the head of another human being, there’s a very good chance he ends up standing over them.This approach makes Wilder dangerous. It makes him the favourite to beat Tyson Fury. And it certainly makes him the antithesis to Wladimir Klitschko.

 

Full article is here - http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/deontay-wilder-vs-tyson-fury-who-wins/

[Egg Shen]

Yeh i agree with that. The In This Corner podcast isn't on board with Fury and they believe he beat Klitschko with 'smoke and mirrors', he beffudled Wlad that night and the Ukranian retreated into his shell and refused to come out, im feeling the same way. Wilder is not gonna do the same, he's gonna go after Fury and let em fly. It'll make for a bit of a mental contest but i cant see Wilder not chinning him. Fury's been over before, and been put over by guys who punch a lot less harder than Deontay Wilder.

Another thing i wanna touch is Fury talking up his resume like its some kind of stellar heavyweight record, yet outside of the Klitschko win there's not many world title level guys on his record, you've got an unmotivated Chisora, a blown up Cruiser in Steve Cunningham and a past it Kevin Johnson. The wools been pulled over a lot of peoples eyes here.

Im sounding overly negative but im actually a Fury fan, i just think the hyperbole surrounding him has gone a little nuts and thats hes getting chinned agaisnt Deontay.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Egg Shen

[Keith Houchen]

17 minutes ago, Egg Shen said:

Another thing i wanna touch is Fury

He isn't into that sort of thing, it's in the bible.

[Egg Shen]

?

[wandshogun09]

7 hours ago, David said:

Not that long ago I wouldn't have been surprised if I'd read that he'd topped himself.

Fury actually said at the post-fight press conference on Saturday that he was on the verge of committing suicide at his lowest. 

I don't know when it happened but somewhere along the line I've turned the corner, a bit, on Fury. I couldn't stand him a couple of years ago and I'm not going as far as to say I'm a fan now but...I don't know, he just stopped irritating me at some point. It must be something to do with his comeback story. Some of the comments he's made over the years like the homophobic stuff are indefensible. But in general, it's hard to not find some compassion for a guy fighting depression and going from where he was mentally and physically to seeing how he looks and sounds now is quite a story.  

I agree to some degree with Ebb's comments though. I think the fact that Fury is even fighting again at all at the moment is a moral victory of sorts. But I do think there are a lot of people overrating his résumé. Getting a decision off Klitschko in Germany was an amazing accomplishment whatever you thought of the fight itself or his performance. But the way that narrative has been retold over the years, you'd think Fury looked completely dominant. In reality it was a bit of a shit fight with neither man doing much and Fury doing just that bit more and hustling just enough to take more rounds than Wlad. He didn't school him like many retell it at all. That's not to take away from the achievement itself, but it just wasn't the Mayweather-esque domination it's been made out as. The second Chisora fight was one of the worst heavyweight fights I've ever endured as well. The times when Fury was exciting to watch was early in his career when he was more hittable and he was getting knocked on his arse by fat journeymen on Channel 5 and stuff. As he's got better, he's got better at avoiding that. But I certainly think the likes of Wilder and Joshua are more than equipped to land those shots. Tyson only wins those fights if he's able to spoil, move loads, hold a lot and fight really ugly. He's awkward to deal with and that helps him but 12 rounds is a long time to avoid a DW or AJ bomb. 

Anyway sod all that. The Pianeta fight was worthwhile just for Fury's little tribute to Muhammad Ali;

 

[Porkchopcash]

great little program on the fights from the other night. BT do these for all their big cards. Makes Fury look very impressive. 

Like most though, as much as i want him to best Wilder, i can see him getting knocked out. 

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

If you look back through this thread you will see a long history of incorrect predictions. That does not stop me though, so here goes. I think that Wilder v Fury will be the heavyweight version of Billy Joe Saunders v David Lemieux. Wilder is a terrible boxer who relies on his extraordinary power to get him out of trouble in fights. I just don't think he will see Fury or land a clean enough shot on him to beat him. 

 

Expect Fury to be sparked out in 3 rounds obviously. 

[David]

15 hours ago, Egg Shen said:

Im sounding overly negative but im actually a Fury fan, i just think the hyperbole surrounding him has gone a little nuts and thats hes getting chinned agaisnt Deontay.

What hyperbole? Aside from his promoter, team, and those who work for BT who are paid for the most part to say these things I've heard nothing of the sort. In fact, most people, just as they did when he faced Klitschko, are writing him off.

You were a fan during that time, Ebb, you know how it went. Most fans were actually incredulous that Fury even got the fight, so sure they were of him getting made to look silly.

We all know how that went.

I'm actually surprised that no one else in the previous eleven years and 22 fights didn't just employ the simple "smoke and mirrors" tactics to relieve Klitschko of his world title? 

The truth is, if Fury is anywhere close to being the same fighter who outboxed and negated the 10 year undefeated Heavyweight champion of the world he's going to beat Wilder pretty handily.

People saying that Wilder isn't like Wlad are correct, he has nowhere near the boxing acumen of the Ukrainian, and is far more wild. An in-shape, skilled boxer will eat that shit up for breakfast. Wilder would have the classic punchers chance.

The only real question going into this fight is which Fury we'll see. If his lifestyle and issues have taken their toll then he could very well go out on the floor, but if he's still got the skill and physical ability to implement the plan he'll have in his mind then it'll be another night of "smoke and mirrors" I reckon.

 

[Carbomb]

That's true. I remember, prior to the Klitschko fight, people being rather dismissive of Fury, that he'd basically been lucky thus far, and that the only thing he had going for him against Klitschko was his ability to switch-hit. As a casual fan, I must admit I was surprised at the time, because he'd been undefeated thus far, but also had a relatively high profile; the way everyone was talking about him, you'd think he was the Royston Wee of heavyweight boxing. Everyone I knew who ever talked about him either thought he was a half-decent chancer who was about to be found out, or thought he was completely shit and had been fed cans thus far.

[ColinBollocks]

Genuinely, from what I've read and heard, there are people that have a clue that truly rate Fury as the best HW boxer about, and fancy his chances against Wilder - who, let's not forget, has faced questions about his overall game every step of the way. 

The great Paulie Mallinagiaogiggiyyi, for example, fancies Fury (if fit for it) to school both Wilder and Joshua.

[Egg Shen]

52 minutes ago, David said:

What hyperbole? Aside from his promoter, team, and those who work for BT who are paid for the most part to say these things I've heard nothing of the sort. In fact, most people, just as they did when he faced Klitschko, are writing him off.

You were a fan during that time, Ebb, you know how it went. Most fans were actually incredulous that Fury even got the fight, so sure they were of him getting made to look silly.

We all know how that went.

I

 

Maybe im off with it, but i get the general feel that post-Klitschko a large portion of the fanbase even got on board with Fury and started to believe the hype, it was understandable given the what he handled Klitschko, but the smoke and mirrors bit makes me wonder if people got a little carried away, i was part of that crowd myself, ive just stepped back and re-assessed it. Its easily done, the promoter and his channel are pushing him huge and thats their job but i was feeling a definite shift in public opinion going off what i was reading online. 

The reaction to Saturday itself was a mixed bag, many hated it and thought he looked poor. The Wilder sales pitch directly afterward glossed over the actual fight and gave everyone something to sink their teeth into. If Wilder wasn't there and there was no fight in November i think we would have seen a huge backlash toward Fury. 

Hes a unique nut to crack there's absolutely no doubt. Im just shocked that people were positive about what they saw Saturday night is all.

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Egg Shen

[Egg Shen]

55 minutes ago, David said:

 An in-shape, skilled boxer will eat that shit up for breakfast. Wilder would have the classic punchers chance.

 

To be fair, i think thats what Wilder's had in the majority of his recent fights. Lets not forget he was getting handily outboxed by Gerald Washington. It's just a pretty special 'punchers chance' that hes got on him.

[PunkStep]

1 hour ago, David said:

What hyperbole?

I've seen so many fans that claim to be boxing 'experts' (not on here mind, but the glorious world of social media) talk about how Fury is untouchable and head & shoulders above the rest of the heavyweight division, also claiming AJ is a fraud and Fury would outbox him with ease and win on points.