WWE Clash in Paris 2025 Discussion

[RedTwoster]

7 minutes ago, Callum1993 said:

Yes in that wrestling isn’t the main priority anymore. It’s all about being mainstream, bringing in celebrities and making ‘moments’. The actual in-ring part has never been less important to them. 

I don’t agree with that at all. If anything, the in ring part hasn’t been as important to them in years. Gone are the days of people like Heidenreich, Snitsky and Khali leading cards - all of the wrestlers in top spots in WWE actually can wrestle. 

As far as bringing in celebrities is concerned, that’s always been a thing in wrestling and there’s nothing wrong with it. 

As for ‘booking around moments’ I don’t agree with that either - even if that was true though, it would be a booking choice as opposed to de-emphasising the wrestling. There’s nothing wrong matches clearly still matter, even if I’m not personally enjoying them right now.

[tiger_rick]

2 minutes ago, Callum1993 said:

Yes in that wrestling isn’t the main priority anymore. It’s all about being mainstream, bringing in celebrities and making ‘moments’. The actual in-ring part has never been less important to them. 

I agree with the point you are making but you could argue that this bit has always been true. This is a company whose two ACTUAL boom periods (fuck you @Supremo) were built on 3 minute matches on TV and blow-off matches on PPV and TV specials that rarely delivered anything that would be described as a "good match". The celebrity tie-ins, the TV production, the big angles were all more important than good wrestling matches.

The biggest difference is that it did still always feel like a sporting event being presented on TV and the people wrestling were the stars you tuned into watch, with the celebrities inflating their value and star aura. That was clearly tested as a concept when Papa Shango was setting jobbers on fire and the wrestlers were plumbers and bin men but it was always the case until the company because the star attraction and not the talent.

It's not the celebrities and the sponsorships that are the issue, it's that they're part of a tacky presentation that feels like an inauthentic reality TV show about pro-wrestling and not like a pro-wrestling show that's on TV. I've said it a few times but I just feel that's fundamentally their biggest problem and the easiest to fix.  

[DavidB6937]

6 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

It's not the celebrities and the sponsorships that are the issue, it's that they're part of a tacky presentation that feels like an inauthentic reality TV show about pro-wrestling and not like a pro-wrestling show that's on TV. I've said it a few times but I just feel that's fundamentally their biggest problem and the easiest to fix.  

Fix for who though? Is it actually a problem? Or is that just where they're at in 2025 and that's what works for a big chunk of their audience?

It's an interesting topic of discussion. If they experience a massive fall off in viewers of a certain age or whatever, then they'd need to sit down and work out why. But if they're not actually experiencing that, and they're still getting crazy gate money and TV deals etc etc, then is there actually a problem worth fixing? Or have things just shifted with the times?

For me, and I think I've said it before - as long as there's something worth tuning in for, then I'm not overly fussed about the presentation. I can deal with the Netflix stuff. I can deal with the sponsorships. All the rubbish surrounding it doesn't particularly bother me unlike some. It's when the characters aren't interesting or there isn't a decent feud to get invested in etc, and that's where I've struggled in recent times.

Admittedly it does tie in time-wise with the Netflix stuff and all that, so I suppose the main issue is actually them spending time business wise focusing on all the other stuff they've had going on. So yeah for me it's not really how they're presenting something but what they're presenting. That's definitely something I think they've struggled with once Roman lost the belts.

[tiger_rick]

22 minutes ago, DavidB6937 said:

Fix for who though? Is it actually a problem? Or is that just where they're at in 2025 and that's what works for a big chunk of their audience?

I think it's a problem. I think a lot of people who love wrestling don't watch their product. I also think they could easily present a product that feels like pro-wrestling without losing anything the existing audience recognises and loves. As always with this discussion, I'm not comparing WWE to AEW or anything else, just to themselves, back when they products a show that I and many others loved.

WWE brilliantly monetise a small audience. I could never knock them for that, it's incredible business. The TV rights deals, now the streaming rights deals, the fucking scandalous ticket prices, the merch. They do a great job. Nick Khan is the most successful carny of them all.

Would it hurt to attract more people? To tap in to an audience that has already been there? Would it extend the life-cycle of most casual wrestling fans beyond the year or so most of them seem to be interested before they drop it? 

I don't know the answer to any of the questions but I do know that tweaking it to present the show and the matches as a wrestling TV show with wrestling matches that matter and have consequences can easily be done by a change of production and emphasis that wouldn't upset the existing audience. We know that from history. They have an audience who sat through the most soulless TV you'd ever find outside the test card because they are so in love with the company. Those people will never go anywhere. Kids will always give it a shot. There's no reason why it has to be so tacky and one dimensional. I mean, they think they're writing Emmy award winning stuff, ffs. There's clearly the energy to produce something good. Just not the ability.

Edited September 1, 2025 by tiger_rick

[AshC]

Bloody fell asleep and it was a 7pm start!

From what I saw before and after though, there were at least three good matches on this, which is a decent return.

[Supremo]

Check out the graphic they put up during Punk’s entrance. “21st match with Seth Rollins as opponent.”

If this isn’t a troll then I don’t know what is.

Everyone else hoping for AJ Lee, and I’m sitting here praying for Danhausen.

Edited September 1, 2025 by Supremo

[DavidB6937]

To be fair, since Ziggler left they needed to replace the never ending Kofi stuff somehow.

[NeverYield]

I didn't actually see any of this beyond the opener, which i thought was a good match to be honest and Reigns and Reed both pulled it out of the bag, if you like that style of working I think they did it well.

[Supremo]

More fool Punk for doing so many dates in the first place. The real workers would never.

Roman Reigns after doing two consecutive pay per views:

[FUM]

3 hours ago, RedTwoster said:

I don’t agree with that at all. If anything, the in ring part hasn’t been as important to them in years. Gone are the days of people like Heidenreich, Snitsky and Khali leading cards - all of the wrestlers in top spots in WWE actually can wrestle. 

And wrestling is poorer for it.

There’s no characters. Just wrestlers.

[WyattSheepMask]

Fucking hell. If AJ Lee turns up for a mixed tag match I’m done

Edited September 1, 2025 by WyattSheepMask

[SuperBacon]

I dunno, have you seen AJ Lee recently? 

BONK!

[Supremo]

If nothing else, at least Becky left some CLUES that she was going to interfere in Jey Uso’s match later on that night. Excellent foreshadowing.

 

[The King of Old School]

Has there been any signs of dissention between The Street Profits leading up to this event?

I can't watch any segments with the tag team division on Smackdown so might have missed something, pretty sure I would have read about it though?!

Edited September 2, 2025 by The King of Old School