Who Killed WCW?

[wandshogun09]

11 hours ago, LCJ said:

Pretty much my take on this. In Bischoff’s defence…

You lost me here fella. 

[Zaheer]

Might just be me and a slight tangent but I fail to understand how Bischoff's opinion is still relevant.

Yes, WCW was HUGE at one point. But they were on top for a year and a half, then fell apart. PLUS this was over 20 years ago. Impact/TNA have had more longevity!

I find it interesting people like him are still important figures when they arguably haven't done anything in years.

 

Edited June 12 by Zaheer

[Merzbow]

To be fair he's nothing but a grifter on the podcast circuit these days, spouting inflammatory AEW takes and right-wing nonsense lifted from Reddit or 4chan. The reason I stopped listening to him a long while back was mainly the latter, using imageboard buzz words no one over 20 should without feeling like a cunt.

[LCJ]

1 hour ago, Merzbow said:

Does Bret ever really talk about Russo? I'd imagine he wasn't a fan of his wrestling philosophy but liked him for his Hogan and Goldberg hate..

I don’t recall Bret saying much about Russo in recent years but I do recall Bret slagging off WCW in a shoot interview (while he was still working there and when Russo had the book). Russo said something to the effect of he was very disappointed in Bret at the time.

[Chris B]

I remember JBL throwing in a question to Bischoff during their 'Dinner for Three'. "What I don't understand is, with you being this mastermind behind WCW's success and the nWo thing, why weren't they getting you onto other shows or networks to do the same thing there?".

At the time, I took it as a genuine question, but in hindsight, it seems like an absolutely damning put-down. 

Bischoff is disappointing - his podcast wasn't bad at times, but he has nowhere near the insight he thinks he does. He did that TedX talk a few years back, where he tried to cut a heel promo at the start and it's just awkward and weird and doesn't work (and starts a disappointing talk as well). 

It's frustrating. He's clearly a smart guy and does have some genuine insights, but because he's marketing himself off one major victory decades ago, he doesn't have much else to offer. It comes across like you'd get everything of value from him as a consultant in the first meeting.

[Carbomb]

It seems to me that Bischoff probably has more value as on-screen talent - he's great as a sleazy corporate figure, he'd be a good manager too.

[Factotum]

2 hours ago, Merzbow said:

Does Bret ever really talk about Russo? I'd imagine he wasn't a fan of his wrestling philosophy but liked him for his Hogan and Goldberg hate..

 Think he said on a shoot interview that Russo was a magazine writer who never had a good idea in his life. But that's basically it.

Russo in WCW wanted to build the company around Bret and then he got injured, but he was definitely the focus of Russo at that time before then, and I think they had a fairly cordial relationship.

By the time Russo came in, WCW was fucked anyway and Bret had lost all heart so I don't see him having too much beef with Russo on his WCW time

Edited June 12 by Factotum

[The Gaffer]

I'm starting to think spite makes Bret younger. It was getting touch and go for awhile there in that hugging Shawn Michaels and doing crap sharpshooters in his t-shirts legacy era. It's good to see him slowly inching back to peak "I'd have just assumed blow my brains out in the middle of the ring" Bret Hart.  

[wandshogun09]

3 hours ago, Factotum said:

 Think he said on a shoot interview that Russo was a magazine writer who never had a good idea in his life. But that's basically it.

Russo in WCW wanted to build the company around Bret and then he got injured, but he was definitely the focus of Russo at that time before then, and I think they had a fairly cordial relationship.

By the time Russo came in, WCW was fucked anyway and Bret had lost all heart so I don't see him having too much beef with Russo on his WCW time

I think any trust Bret had in Russo died long before Russo came to WCW. Bret told a story on one interview that, not long after Montreal, he was trying to get Owen to get his release from the WWF so he could join him in (the) WCW. On one call they were talking to Russo and he was supposedly playing good cop and acting like he was trying to help, but he had Vince McMahon listening in on the conversation without either Bret or Owen’s knowledge.

Also, I’m not sure I’m with the theory that Bret was checked out and couldn’t be arsed when he got to WCW. He’s always claimed he was motivated to go there and really stick it to Vince by being successful there and helping WCW do well. I believe him because why wouldn’t he be? While I agree that Montreal probably took something out of him that never fully came back, I don’t think his ego would allow him to just half-arse it in WCW. Surely he’d have wanted nothing more than to prove Vince wrong and make him regret his decision to go with Shawn over him? I genuinely think he went to WCW with the best intentions initially but a combination of them being so inept, having no long term plans for him (and that was clear from very early after his arrival), having no real leadership and letting the inmates run the asylum meant he was always gonna be just another guy on a bloated roster and would only ever go as far as Hogan wanted him to. The way they handled Bret, almost from day one, was complete shite. So I don’t really get the narrative of blaming Bret or saying he went there unmotivated. He was given very little to work with. 

[Roy]

12 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

I think any trust Bret had in Russo died long before Russo came to WCW. Bret told a story on one interview that, not long after Montreal, he was trying to get Owen to get his release from the WWF so he could join him in (the) WCW. On one call they were talking to Russo and he was supposedly playing good cop and acting like he was trying to help, but he had Vince McMahon listening in on the conversation without either Bret or Owen’s knowledge.

Also, I’m not sure I’m with the theory that Bret was checked out and couldn’t be arsed when he got to WCW. He’s always claimed he was motivated to go there and really stick it to Vince by being successful there and helping WCW do well. I believe him because why wouldn’t he be? While I agree that Montreal probably took something out of him that never fully came back, I don’t think his ego would allow him to just half-arse it in WCW. Surely he’d have wanted nothing more than to prove Vince wrong and make him regret his decision to go with Shawn over him? I genuinely think he went to WCW with the best intentions initially but a combination of them being so inept, having no long term plans for him (and that was clear from very early after his arrival), having no real leadership and letting the inmates run the asylum meant he was always gonna be just another guy on a bloated roster and would only ever go as far as Hogan wanted him to. The way they handled Bret, almost from day one, was complete shite. So I don’t really get the narrative of blaming Bret or saying he went there unmotivated. He was given very little to work with. 

I think you're spot on here. Bret went motivated; that quickly dissapated for the reasons you've outlined. I recall Bret's columns in both the Calgary Sun and (the) WCW's official magazine reflecting how he was being used at the time. Initially, he would discuss storylines, matches and the like. Within a year or so, he was either ignoring the TV, dismissing it casually noting that he can't make sense of it so doesn't expect anyone else to, or talking about something completely random. There was one column in the magazine where he was lamenting what the water in his hotel might do to his hair, if I recall correctly.

Reading them 25 years later is interesting. In one, he briefly discusses chatting to Steve Austin when he first went back to WWF in April 1999 at a house show shortly before Owen died.

[SuperBacon]

Just now, Roy said:

I think you're spot on here. Bret went motivated; that quickly dissapated for the reasons you've outlined. I recall Bret's columns in both the Calgary Sun and (the) WCW's official magazine reflecting how he was being used at the time. Initially, he would discuss storylines, matches and the like. Within a year or so, he was either ignoring the TV, dismissing it casually noting that he can't make sense of it so doesn't expect anyone else to, or talking about something completely random. There was one column in the magazine where he was lamenting what the water in his hotel might do to his hair, if I recall correctly.

Reading them 25 years later is interesting. In one, he briefly discusses chatting to Steve Austin when he first went back to WWF in April 1999 at a house show shortly before Owen died.

Got a link to these online?

[Roy]

1 hour ago, SuperBacon said:

Got a link to these online?

Not to the WCW Magazine ones unfortunately. His Calgary Sun columns are a great read - they can be found via the Wayback Machine here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160118183258/http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Wrestling/Bios/hart-bret-columns.html

[SuperBacon]

4 minutes ago, Roy said:

Not to the WCW Magazine ones unfortunately. His Calgary Sun columns are a great read - they can be found via the Wayback Machine here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160118183258/http://slam.canoe.com/Slam/Wrestling/Bios/hart-bret-columns.html

Nice one!

[The Masked Poster]

2 hours ago, Roy said:

In one, he briefly discusses chatting to Steve Austin when he first went back to WWF in April 1999 at a house show shortly before Owen died.

Do you know any more about this? I didn’t think Bret had any contact with WWF until after Owen died - he met Vince at a park and was apparently offered the opportunity to return and become WWF champion. 

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Bret and the Undertaker after said WWF house show. Diana and Steve Austin were "together" at the show as well. As Davey Boy was in hospital with his back in a brace.