Age in big-time US wrestling ; shifting perceptions

[Carbomb]

Also, with all the advancements in sports science, there's probably either a lot more expertise in treatment, whether it's in-house or simply the wrestlers having more self-knowledge about which injuries they can't afford to leave and how to address them.

[air_raid]

10 minutes ago, Carbomb said:

Also, with all the advancements in sports science, there's probably either a lot more expertise in treatment, whether it's in-house or simply the wrestlers having more self-knowledge about which injuries they can't afford to leave and how to address them.

It's interesting because at the time of the (first) prime of E&C when both had moved into singles careers, I wondered if the 250 nights a year bumping on WWE rings was fucking people up as long after they banned piledrivers you still had Benoit, Edge, Rhino and Kurt fucking their necks up and far more people going on long-term d/l than on the indy circuit where every fucker was finding the most intricate piledriver or brainbuster variant they could imagine - Red literally called one of his "Brain Damage" for Christ's sake, But even within those few years you had Edge get the fusion surgery and be told "that's it for you for a year" then Kurt shortly after getting different surgery, not needing his vertebrae fused and being back in the ring within a couple of months, to then carry on wrestling fairly regularly for more than ten years.

[Version1.0]

Mickie James was 37 at WrestleMania 33 in the 6-Pac challenge for the SmackDown Women's title. She'd been out of WWE for 6 1/2 years and was treated as a blast from the past. In the same match was Becky Lynch, who will also be 37 when she takes on Rhea Ripley at WrestleMania 40.

[Loki]

1 hour ago, air_raid said:

then Kurt shortly after getting different surgery, not needing his vertebrae fused and being back in the ring within a couple of months, to then carry on wrestling fairly regularly for more than ten years.

Here’s the thing though, he almost certainly shouldn’t have and he got through it by popping insane amounts of painkillers.

I remember about a year before he left WWE reading an “article” about how modern Kurt’s fitness regime was, how he’d learnt all this stuff in the Olympics about ice baths and warm downs and was teaching it to the WWE locker room.

 Except it was all bullshit, someone had a good hookup and they were all mainlining HGH and percocets.  That whole Guerrero/Benoit/Angle Smackdown locker room might have been the most fucked up of all time drugs-wise and that’s saying something. Everyone was dropping dead either on the road or just after leaving it (Hennig for e.g).  The Plane Ride from Hell was in the middle of all that too.

Angle is lucky to be alive.  There’s a reason WWE never really wanted him back in a ring, because for a while there he was on death watch.

 

 

 

 

[Chili]

3 minutes ago, Loki said:

Here’s the thing though, he almost certainly shouldn’t have and he got through it by popping insane amounts of painkillers.

I remember about a year before he left WWE reading an “article” about how modern Kurt’s fitness regime was, how he’d learnt all this stuff in the Olympics about ice baths and warm downs and was teaching it to the WWE locker room.

 Except it was all bullshit, someone had a good hookup and they were all mainlining HGH and percocets.  That whole Guerrero/Benoit/Angle Smackdown locker room might have been the most fucked up of all time drugs-wise and that’s saying something. Everyone was dropping dead either on the road or just after leaving it (Hennig for e.g).  The Plane Ride from Hell was in the middle of all that too.

Angle is lucky to be alive.  There’s a reason WWE never really wanted him back in a ring, because for a while there he was on death watch.

 

 

 

 

Got anymore about the Smackdown locker room being HGH off their faces, not something I've read much before?!

[Loki]

It was the whole Signature Pharmacy scandal wasn’t it, they were all getting steroids and HGH over the internet. Benoit was on huge doses of testosterone too from Dr Astin.

 Loads of them were implicated, including Edge, Rey Mysterio and other Smackdown guys plus Helms, Holly and many others.

Edited April 2 by Loki
Astin not Aster. Dr Feelgood anyway.

[Chili]

15 minutes ago, Loki said:

It was the whole Signature Pharmacy scandal wasn’t it, they were all getting steroids and HGH over the internet. Benoit was on huge doses of testosterone too from Dr Astin.

 Loads of them were implicated, including Edge, Rey Mysterio and other Smackdown guys plus Helms, Holly and many others.

AHH I think I'm confusing years, that was 2006-2007 and my brain is going to 2002-03.

Edited April 2 by Chili
Yvonne McGruder. 12 minutes and that includes to the time to eat the pizza

[Carbomb]

22 minutes ago, Loki said:

It was the whole Signature Pharmacy scandal wasn’t it, they were all getting steroids and HGH over the internet. Benoit was on huge doses of testosterone too from Dr Astin.

 Loads of them were implicated, including Edge, Rey Mysterio and other Smackdown guys plus Helms, Holly and many others.

Yeh, it was what did for Kennedy's career - he'd gone all-in on slagging off everyone talking about it, defending WWE to the hilt. Then he got done, and looked ridiculous.

[gmoney]

5 hours ago, Carbomb said:

Yeh, it was what did for Kennedy's career - he'd gone all-in on slagging off everyone talking about it, defending WWE to the hilt. Then he got done, and looked ridiculous.

Wasn't it Orton and Michaels and probably others complaining that he was reckless that got him canned? It was 2 years after the pharmacy scandal that they let him go. Then he worked for years in TNA. 

[Carbomb]

2 hours ago, gmoney said:

Wasn't it Orton and Michaels and probably others complaining that he was reckless that got him canned? It was 2 years after the pharmacy scandal that they let him go. Then he worked for years in TNA. 

Yeh, that got him fired, but remember they were pushing him hard first, even planning to make him Vince's illegitimate son - then he got done and they gave that to Hornswoggle instead. After the scandal, he was essentially a midcard jobber.

[air_raid]

12 hours ago, Carbomb said:

Yeh, it was what did for Kennedy's career - he'd gone all-in on slagging off everyone talking about it, defending WWE to the hilt. Then he got done, and looked ridiculous.

 

6 hours ago, gmoney said:

Wasn't it Orton and Michaels and probably others complaining that he was reckless that got him canned? It was 2 years after the pharmacy scandal that they let him go. Then he worked for years in TNA. 

 

4 hours ago, Carbomb said:

Yeh, that got him fired, but remember they were pushing him hard first, even planning to make him Vince's illegitimate son - then he got done and they gave that to Hornswoggle instead. After the scandal, he was essentially a midcard jobber.

You’re hovering around the truth in both aspects. Just as his first serious injury cost him the World title, Signature cost him being Vince’s son and a storyline that was meant to lead to a match with Triple H at Mania 24. To suggest he was jobbed out doesn’t quite ring true ; prior to his final injury lay off he’d been moved back to SmackDown and pushed as a babyface for the first time, and was feuding with Shelton for the US title at the time he got hurt again. On the Raw on which he returned, they immediately presented him as someone (WWE Champion) Randy Orton should be worried about. They were serious about Ken as a player right up until the end. Which was, as you recall, the same night…

On 7/31/2023 at 5:02 AM, air_raid said:

On the 25th Raw in his first match back from a lengthy time of the sidelines with his shoulder injury, Ken Kennedy both appears to injure his own hand and allegedly drops Randy Orton on his head on a back suplex, favouring his hand because Orton landed on him. Backstage Orton flips out on Ken saying he didn't look after him and that he landed wrong on his head and neck - the camera angle from the broadcast is inconclusive, Ken will tell you Orton jumped unusually high on the suplex and he did everything he could to bring him down safely. For only the second time in his career, Ken hears he's unsafe - the first having been from John Cena who had manged to tear his pec giving HIM a hiptoss. Tempers die down but nevertheless four days later Johnny Ace gives Ken the call that based on "how the match went" they're letting him go. Allegedly Orton asked Cena to go to bat for him with Vince and back up his claim that Kennedy was unsafe ; this being Randy Orton that Ken says he was close with, and their wives used to do Mania and go shopping together etc. As if Ken hadn't had enough bad luck with injuries of his own, he was bitten by the viper! This was definitely still the period where Orton's character was in question on a human level, and its further suggested that he felt his spot threatened by Kennedy coming back on a show that already had John Cena and Batista gunning for top spot. Either way, you'd have to make your own call as to whether Kennedy was unsafe - he'll point out that he worked with Undertaker for nearly a year giving him rarely-allowed piledrivers and never heard a word that he wasn't trusted to be safe, other than from Cena and Orton. Who, to be fair, you understand WWE would listen to.

 

Edited April 3 by air_raid
He’s dead, Dave.

[Loki]

They really dropped the ball with Kennedy, he was very over, was a solid worker and had bags of charisma.  He was fun in TNA but I guess if Orton and Cena don’t like you, you’re never getting back into WWE.

[LaGoosh]

17 hours ago, air_raid said:

long after they banned piledrivers you still had Benoit, Edge, Rhino and Kurt fucking their necks up and far more people going on long-term d/l than on the indy circuit where every fucker was finding the most intricate piledriver or brainbuster variant they could imagine - Red literally called one of his "Brain Damage" for Christ's sake, But even within those few years you had Edge get the fusion surgery and be told "that's it for you for a year" then Kurt shortly after getting different surgery, not needing his vertebrae fused and being back in the ring within a couple of months, to then carry on wrestling fairly regularly for more than ten years.

I don't think banning piledrivers made any difference at all. A piledriver is a dangerous move if it's fucked up but if done properly and safely then I imagine it's fairly low impact for the person receiving it. 

I think the main thing around this time, especially with the Smackdown crew, is that they were having a lot of heavy hitting matches each week which were filled to the brim with suplexes, particularly German Suplexes. I think the sheer amount of German suplexes all these guys were taking all week long is probably the main cause of everyone being drugged up maniacs with dust for spines during this period.

[air_raid]

6 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

I don't think banning piledrivers made any difference at all. A piledriver is a dangerous move if it's fucked up but if done properly and safely then I imagine it's fairly low impact for the person receiving it.

I agree, and thought it was perplexing at the time. It's a dangerous, contact sport. A hiptoss gone wrong can get someone in a wheelchair. Any one move is not a cause for concern.

Well, unless it's particularly stupid and hard to protect yourself from, like that moonsault Styles Clash that pillock did on Mike Sydal despite everyone involved (including Sydal) telling him not to.

[BomberPat]

28 minutes ago, LaGoosh said:

I don't think banning piledrivers made any difference at all. A piledriver is a dangerous move if it's fucked up but if done properly and safely then I imagine it's fairly low impact for the person receiving it. 

I think the main thing around this time, especially with the Smackdown crew, is that they were having a lot of heavy hitting matches each week which were filled to the brim with suplexes, particularly German Suplexes. I think the sheer amount of German suplexes all these guys were taking all week long is probably the main cause of everyone being drugged up maniacs with dust for spines during this period.

It was shortly after this time that they banned the Overhead Belly-to-Belly Suplex, which is a move with a low margin of error in terms of avoiding injury, and which had been one of those moves you see all over the shop.

There was also something around them changing how the ring was constructed - they moved away from the infamously rock-solid WWF rings of yore some time after King Of The Ring 1998 and switched to a more spring-loaded ring with a lot more give to it. I don't know how much they changed it again since then, but I remember hearing that a lot of the neck injuries in the early 2000s were at least in part because wrestlers used to bumping on a more solid ring were getting a kind of whiplash effect from the amount of bounce the new model had, which just added up to a lot of wear and tear.