On-topic Post of the Year

[SuperBacon]

Wand on Eddie. Superb.

1 hour ago, wandshogun09 said:

Sorry in advance, I’ve proper rambled…

His absolute best theme for me. This one with no added vocals or silly bollocks. They never topped it. Perfectly captured his sleazy heel persona in 97/98. And the mad thing is it almost certainly wasn’t even made with Eddie in mind. It was probably in Turner’s random stock music library somewhere under ‘Mexican Drug Cartel 7’ or something. 

Loved Eddie. Like others have said, one of if not the best ever when it comes to all-rounders. The only thing he didn’t have going for him was natural size. It’s a shame he felt the need to bulk up as much as he did. That undoubtedly played a part in screwing up his health at a young age. Had he came along a decade or two later when size wasn’t as much of an issue, maybe he wouldn’t have felt it was necessary to do that. He certainly didn’t need to. As far as in ring ability, natural charisma and a connection with the audience goes, he left the vast majority of his peers in the dust.

I was trying to think back to the first time I saw Eddie. Initially I assumed it must’ve been when he came to WCW. I have a vague memory of seeing a video package on Worldwide in the dying days of the WCW run on ITV, so late 95, and they were showing clips of all these new wrestlers that were coming in as part of something called the ‘Cruiserweight division’. I vividly remember seeing this Eddie vs Liger match from Main Event around that time…

For one, putting Eddie Guerrero vs Jushin ‘Thunder’ Liger on their C-string show was diabolical. And it still looks surreal to me seeing Eddie and Liger in that setting when WCW were still using the same old aesthetics from their 1993 shows. WCW programming looked exactly like this in 93 when you had the Cole twins, Big Sky and the Colossal Kongs knocking about and here’s Eddie and Liger going all Best Of The Super Juniors in there! Still looks weird now. 

But thinking about it, I actually saw Eddie before that but without realising it was him. I definitely saw him as Black Tiger on Eurosport’s ‘WSW’ shows AKA ‘selected New Japan matches from the early to mid 90s with Craig DeGeorge and Oliver Humperdink dubbed over commentary and some names altered due to copyright issues’. That title didn’t catch on for some reason. Took me ages to put two and two together that Eddie and Black Tiger were one and the same. This was most likely the giveaway…

No-one, no-one, could do that as smoothly as Eddie so right there I knew it was him. Then from 96, obviously Eddie was a fixture on Nitro and I was glued to that every Friday so he became part of my weekly wrestling watching routine from then on. He was great. Clean cut, white meat babyface Eddie in the white and red singlet in 96 was probably his weakest presentation and he was still arguably the best thing on any show he appeared on back then. Even at the height of the NWO craziness, Eddie was always having that one killer match on the undercard that I’d rewatch over and over. The heel turn in 1997 is where things really clicked for him though…

For all the incredible things Eddie went on to accomplish in his career later, this is still my favourite version of him. He’s at his physical peak there, lean and ripped, was probably never better bell to bell, and as a character he’d finally found his feet. Arrogant, sleazy, greasy, smirking dickhead. But so good you couldn’t look away from what he was doing. Doesn’t hurt that he had that theme @Chiliposted above around this time and also had that all timer great match with purple Rey at Halloween Havoc. It’s a shame he had that car crash in 98/99 whenever it was. I don’t think it stopped some big push or anything. At the time of the crash I think he’d been pissing about with the LWO or Filthy Animals or something hadn’t he? As great as he was, he was never going any further up the ladder with the usual big name suspects occupying all the top spots. It was the crash which really started his problems with pain pills though.

If you’d said to me in 1999 that Eddie would be in the WWF by early 2000 I’d have been buzzing. If you told me that his first storyline would be with Chyna, I’d have groaned. But it was perfect. It’s a pairing I’d never have expected to work but their chemistry was great. It turned out to be the ideal way to showcase Eddie’s personality to the WWF audience and it says it all about how likeable he was that he was the one out of the Radicalz who they had to pull away from the group and turn him babyface. It also put Chyna in a different light and gave her something to do after Triple H cast her aside. I’ve said it before but you’d be hard pressed to find a period in Chyna’s short career where she looked as comfortable on screen and as happy as she did in that year or whatever it was that she was with Eddie.

I vaguely remember his release in 2001 and I didn’t find out about his stuff on the indies and back in Japan in that period until years later. I just remember him coming back in 2002 like he hadn’t missed a step. Straight into the series with Rob Van Dam, which was a bit of a dream match for me at the time. It wasn’t Eddie’s best work but I enjoyed some of their matches. I was all in on the Smackdown Six stuff in late 2002 but then after that I felt like Eddie kind of fell back into that same role he had in WCW. The ‘dependable hand’ propping up undercards. Still had his moments but, to be honest, I never really rated Chavo and Eddie seemed to be carrying him in their Los Guerreros stuff every time I switched on in 2003.

2004 was a different story…

I never saw this coming at all. There didn’t seem to be any signs to me in late 2003 that they were heading in the direction of putting the belt on Eddie. And especially with Brock as champ. Without checking, I can’t even recall what Eddie was doing at the end of ‘03. My latest memory is him arsing about with Big Show for the US belt at No Mercy. If you held a gun to my head I couldn’t tell you what he was doing between November 2003 and February 2004. So him taking the title off Brock was a mix of shock and happiness for me. I wasn’t following online then so I don’t know if the plans had been leaked ahead of time? I had zero idea. Fully expected Brock to be going into WrestleMania as champ. Of course I didn’t know he was leaving either.

It’s shit that a big chunk of Eddie’s best work involves a certain someone and now has the stench of tragedy and murder attached to it. His matches with Chris Benoit in Japan, WCW and WWE were awesome. Watching them as Black Tiger vs Wild Pegasus in Japan genuinely felt like an upgraded 90s version of Tiger Mask vs Dynamite Kid in the 80s. They were that good together. Says it all when their match at One Night Stand 2005 was considered a dud when it’s still better than what some wrestlers put out. By their usual standards though, it was like they were just sleepwalking through their signature spots in half the speed they usually did. It’s also sad that that moment they had at the end of WrestleMania XX is ruined. But like @Carbomb said, his match with Kurt Angle that night, and the finish especially, is tremendous. Those two didn’t always gel but they did that night.

The title reign was short but I’ll never forget the ridiculous amount of blood he spilled in that JBL match. His 2005’s a bit of a blur for me but, whether it’s just benefit of hindsight stuff now or what, I find a lot of it hard to watch now. I probably didn’t notice it in real time back then but knowing what we know now, he just looks in so much pain at times in that last year. He’s bloated to fuck and nowhere near as fast and nimble as he was even just a couple of years earlier. Even still, he was having some good matches with Rey. Not at the level of their 97 stuff obviously, and I felt like their WrestleMania 21 match was a bit of a letdown. But they had a belter on Smackdown in (I think) June and I enjoyed the ladder match at SummerSlam, even if the ‘For Custody of Dominick’ stip was a bit WCW Russo.

Wasn’t until probably 2002ish on that I started actively seeking out tape traders and that’s how I ended up seeing a lot more of his stuff from Japan and ECW. Just an absolute workhorse. Like everyone’s already said, he could do anything. Serious, comedy, high flying, hard hitting, could talk, could be the loveable face or a bastard heel. He was incredible.

That planned Shawn match at WrestleMania 22 would’ve been something special. Even at that stage of Eddie’s physical decline, it’s hard to imagine those two wouldn’t have created some magic together on that stage. No doubt the wheels would’ve been set in motion at Survivor Series, they were scheduled to be on opposite teams in the Raw vs Smackdown elimination match. Which would’ve been the first time they’d have touched, wouldn’t it? Unless they interacted in a Rumble or something. One that got away along with Eddie vs Bret in WCW. 

RIP Latino Heat.

 

[HarmonicGenerator]

Another brilliant Eddie write up, this time from @BomberPat:

1 hour ago, BomberPat said:

Eddie was a huge part of the growth of my wrestling fandom, and my understanding of wrestling. 

I got back into wrestling in mid-2000, thanks to the first Smackdown game, and it took me a while to warm to anyone who wasn't in that game. The Radicalz were knocking about, but weren't really much of a coherent faction any more. I knew nothing of their history, but they just seemed different and more exciting than most people in the WWF, though I'd be lying if I said that Eddy stood out in that regard - in hindsight, that's because he more perfectly adjusted to WWF style sports entertainment. The first wrestlers I really loved were Mick Foley and Raven, so the hardcore division was my jam, so Perry Saturn probably fit my tastes more, and Benoit was my brother's favourite wrestler.

Eddy back then was always a reliably good match, and as Foley's book and wrestling magazines led me back to ECW, I started to get more of a sense of who he was and where he had been. Playing WCW games, and seeing Chavo Guerrero Jr as an option, led me to a better understanding of who the Guerrero family were, and then Eddy leaving the WWF was a real watershed moment for me - it was him wrestling in the UK that led me to discover the FWA and British wrestling in general, and that short indie run introduced me to ROH and IWA: Mid-South; neither were promotions I ever followed closely, but just learning of their existence helped open up my understanding of the world of wrestling, and how much more of it there was out there. When I started digging into older wrestling stuff, my two avenues were Japanese deathmatches and '90s lucha, with Eddy and Los Gringos Locos being a huge part of that.

I never really thought, when Eddy returned to WWE, that he was a main event prospect, but I never cared - most of my favourites in the WWF were midcard acts anyway. He came back in for a feud with Rob Van Dam, which seemed very cool - battling over who had the best version of a move felt like the kind of thing people would constantly fantasy book, but which WWE rarely ever actually did - and being back in the mix around the Intercontinental Title felt like the logical place for him.

But then he cut this incredible promo for a one-night programme with The Rock, about how he wanted to be his daughters' favourite wrestler, but came home to find they had a poster of The Rock on their wall and he tore it down and shouted at them - it was really impassioned, tapped into a kind of pettiness that's perfect for the sort of heel he was, and implied the possibility of a far darker behaviour underpinning it all, kind of prefiguring the creepier angles he did with Dominik. There was just something intense there that nobody else was doing.

By the time of the Smackdown Six, I was a full-blown workrate mark, and Smackdown felt tailor made for my tastes, with Los Guerreros being a big part of it. When be fought Brock Lesnar for the belt, it never occurred to me that he might win - Brock was going to fight Goldberg, so why would they have him lose, and to Eddy Guerrero of all people? It was a rare PPV that I stayed up late to watch, rather than taping, and like others have said in this thread, despite thinking myself the smartest of smart fans, I remember literally jumping off the sofa cheering when it became clear that Eddy was winning.

 

I was devastated when I found out that he had died. It just seemed so unfair. Other wrestlers had died young, but they were big muscleheads from the '80s, so they never felt as young to me as a guy I was just watching on TV. I'm the same age now that Eddie was when he died, which feels almost incomprehensible. I remember editing together a tribute video, which I'm sure was horrifically cringe. Thankfully, this was the very early days of YouTube, so I doubt I even uploaded it there. 

 

Years later, when I got involved in wrestling, I started to appreciate the little ways in which Eddy was truly special. Realising how, as a babyface, the Three Amigos was this smooth and beautiful flashy move, but as a heel he slowed it down and made the focus the impact of each suplex, making it a sadistic move to keep repeating that impact. How, in the finish of his Wrestlemania match with Kurt Angle, he manages to get so much snap on an inside cradle that it feels like an offensive move more than a roll-up.

Joe E. Legend told me a story of how he watched Eddy work, and how on his way to the ring he would take in what he could see of the audience, and listen to the pitch of the crowd noise, and from that - in the amount of time it took him to walk to the ring - come up with a working estimate of the demographic balance, in terms of age and gender, and of the general mood of the crowd, and would tailor how he worked to fit. And how he pretty much always got it right. I did a refereeing seminar with Scott Armstrong, and he talked about how when he refereed Los Guerreros matches, Eddy would tell him that if he ever caught them cheating he was to disqualify them, yet across dozens of matches he never did. Stuff like that stands out to me as how truly brilliant he was. He seems to have really bridged the gap between today's more elaborately planned matches and the previous generation calling everything in the ring, and come out with the best of both worlds.

I am always really reluctant to talk of "Mount Rushmores" or best ever. I think you risk casting a certain wrestler, style or era in amber and saying it's untouchable. And how do you compare a great '80s brawler with a 2020s luchadore, or a World of Sport comedy act, and say one is definitively better than the rest? To me, the deciding factors have to be longevity, diversity, and adaptability - can a wrestler work equally well in totally different locations, eras, and styles, and with a diverse range of opponents? I have always pointed to Terry Funk as the gold standard in that respect, but you could make the same case for Eddy Guerrero - who else could do the NJPW Best Of The Super Juniors, WWF midcard comedy, play a pro-American AAA rudo and a cocky Mexican WCW heel, and have a bloodbath of a main event brawl with JBL as easily as a technical masterclass with Angle, Benoit or Malenko?

 

[RedTwoster]

Given that it’s in the NXT thread, it’s likely to be seen by less people which is a real shame. But this is a tremendous post by @I Bent My Wookie, running down the first NXT show of the year. It’s more entertaining than the actual show was.

EDIT: I’ll add @I Bent My Wookie’s tremendous NXT roster rundown to this. What a post: 

 

Edited January 8 by RedTwoster

[air_raid]

Seconded.

8 hours ago, I Bent My Wookie said:

 

He's just Austin Theory with hair.

What a line that is!

[tiger_rick]

Brilliant.

[air_raid]

I fucking love this. What a symbol for the chore that is following WWE in 2026.

19 minutes ago, FLips said:

At one point the thing completely lost our attention and we were sat around looking for the best Mega Drive box art to display in his game's room while my wife labelled her yarns.

 

[RedTwoster]

Can an awards post be nominated for on topic post of the year? Because this, from @Supremo, is absolutely tremendous. 

This is the best written assessment I’ve read of any wrestler on this board - and I don’t even agree with every point he’s making! Just brilliant stuff.

[HarmonicGenerator]

1 hour ago, RedTwoster said:

Can an awards post be nominated for on topic post of the year? Because this, from @Supremo, is absolutely tremendous. 

This is the best written assessment I’ve read of any wrestler on this board - and I don’t even agree with every point he’s making! Just brilliant stuff.

Seconded!

[HarmonicGenerator]

2 hours ago, DavidB6937 said:

Rhea is one of those cases where I've really enjoyed following her career, her development and drive, and how a slight character/image change can truly make or break someone.

As a very young, unproven Australian talent back in 2017 she failed to make much of an impression in the Mae Young Classic's first year. Blonde. Smiley. Fairly uninspiring to be honest, but from a unique physique and talent perspective there was something there. She just didn't get much of a chance to show it that time, losing in the second round to Dakota Kai.

Side note - I loved the Mae Young Classics and they really shaped a lot of WWE going forward.

Anyway back to the second year of the Mae Young Classic and we're greeted by this instead:

I mean come on. Instantly a million times better. Attitude. Style. Everything that makes her stand out today. It was obviously a work in progress back then as you'd expect, but even then and in her early days in NXT UK she'd tapped into something. It all made more sense for her physique and her wrestling style. She should be dominating people. She should be presenting herself as a cocky overpowering presence because she is.

Suddenly it was there and you could tell it was working far better. She may have gone out in the semi finals that year but she'd already won. I love that she has that genuine shared history with Io that is amazing to see pay off at the highest level these days.

She was pretty much everywhere from then on - from leading NXT UK to dominating NXT, appearing in Rumbles and main roster shows, and the rest is history really.

I'm not sure if she's in her final form right now, but the step up as Mami and all that Dom business really pushed her to where she is today. She genuinely is in a league of her own in terms of the total package and being over with the crowds.

It's been a real journey for her and it's weird watching her on shows like Unreal because you get to see her anxieties and worries about how she is, when she's absolutely one of the best at hiding it when she's out there.

She should arguably be their biggest star and the crossover appeal could be massive. I'm not sure they tap into that nearly enough.

The only thing that could make me love her more is if she could stop singing her own entrance theme. Gives me the ick.

Really liked this from David on Rhea Ripley.

[HarmonicGenerator]

Spoiler

9 hours ago, Supremo said:

Look! They’re wrestling each other on the same show as last year! Can you not see the symmetry?! It is clever! It’s not an awful exercise in refusing to read the room and sticking with THE PLAN when you should so obviously pivot!

Terrible decision. Justice for Andrade! Justice for Brody!

The parallels between CM Punk and Hangman Adam Page will never cease to amaze me. Both succeeded by finding that sweet spot blurring fiction and reality, allowing their fans to develop a borderline para-social relationship, believing their real life personalities were reflected onscreen.

CM Punk was a hyper-principled, counter-culture punk rock kid for real! It said so on Teletext! Adam Page was a progressive Bluesky warrior in real life! Powerslam told me!

And then in both cases their entire act crumbled to dust when it was revealed it was just as big a work as Duke the Dumpster Droese being on the bins. Punk was actually a Blood Money Dick Sucker. A Hunter Hearst Helmsley Hugger. Page was actually willing to get 2-for-1 on mains and desserts with a nonce. A Sex Pest Sympathiser.

You assume, similar to Punk, I’ll eventually get over it with Hangman and still enjoy what is demonstrably a wildly talented performer. What even is pro-wrestling if it isn’t accepting that everyone and everything is fucking awful and I have to just accept it if I want to enjoy anything?

But as of right now? I couldn’t give a fuck about Hangman Adam Page. Last year, I jumped out of my seat and punched the air when he beat Will Ospreay and earned a Title Shot. It was life affirming. This year, I wasn’t even paying attention. I had to look up from my phone in order to roll my eyes. I was more engrossed in a Tik Tok about Jesse Nelson leaving Little Mix.

I don’t know what the answer is with Hangman, but I know for a fact that it’s not scripting spots in his matches where he takes selfies with Andrade’s fans. Last thing you should be doing right now is reminding people of Hangman Adam Page taking selfies, you empty headed dumb fucks!

Rest of the show was fantastic.

That final thirty second stretch in Moxley vs. Takeshita is what I imagine heroin feels like. What a fucking rush! Excited for them to rematch at the pay per view.

Hair vs. Hair Mixed Tag was everything I adore about pro-wrestling. Wild fun. The catharsis of them shaving Yuta’s head whilst Toni Storm calls him a, “bald bastard,” is what this business is all about. Moxley forcing Yuta to go back and adhere to the stipulation was a great touch, too. Bonus points for how this was the most Moxley has ever looked like Phil Mitchell. This legitimately looks like a scrap in the Queen Vic!

I’ve got less than zero time for Ladder Matches in 2026, but fucking hell. Kyle Fletcher and Mark Briscoe willing to die to drag something out of what is essentially a dead gimmick. Mark Briscoe especially. What a talent. What a nutter. I hope he’s paid handsomely for his sacrifices.

More, “Fuck ICE,” chants! Fuck yeah! Body rules. Still terrified he’ll get arrested or something when he flies back to that dystopian nightmare of a country.

Good main event. Funny how quickly things can change. Last year, at Forbidden Door, MJF felt like he was dragging down Hangman’s reign. This year, Hangman and the dark cloud that follows him feels like it’s dragging down MJF’s. Fair play to Max. This run is quietly working and delivering the goods. He’s tightened everything up and avoided his worst instincts*. It’s actually working! By the time he bumps his arse off for Ospreay in Wembley, I’ll be positively giddy!

*I reserve the right to take it all back if/when MJF makes a rubbish, edgy joke about Marty Scurll on this week’s Dynamite.

“What’s the matter Seabiscuit…am I not The Villain you wanted to break bread with?”

To end on a positive, this is probably the best two-hit Dynamite/Collision combination in years. Both WWE and AEW having a great run in 2026 thus far. I’m going to enjoy it whilst it lasts. We’re probably only a few days away from them announcing a Scorpio Sky match for next week’s Collision.

 

Another year, another great Supremo post. Contains spoilers for AEW Grand Slam.

2025 Supremo would have been shocked to see how things have changed.

[tiger_rick]

13 hours ago, Lorne Malvo said:

'PG me' is something I say to the missus when I fancy a cuppa. 

 

 

[RedTwoster]

This is one of the best posts I’ve ever read on this forum, and it’s only three words long. Brilliant stuff from @SuperBacon. (I realise it’s not quoting the initial comment for some context - it’s in response to me saying that I enjoyed an angle on Smackdown in the same way people do The Room)

 

Edited April 5 by RedTwoster

[RedTwoster]

It’s post of the year credentials have been mentioned in the thread itself, but I don’t want this to be overlooked at the end of the year. Probably the most moving, special post I’ve ever read. It’s hard to articulate just how much respect and admiration I have for @DavidB6937. He’s an exceptional human being.

[Carbomb]

Seconded.

[tiger_rick]

It's got about 60 more likes than I've ever seen on a post. Close the poll.