AEW World's End 2023 discussion

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

Such a fantastic video. Long live the king.

 

[RedRooster]

6 hours ago, WeeAl said:

So Andrade is done with the company, yet on the way out the door they give him a win over Bryan Danielson and he goes toe to toe with Miro and is given an out for losing, with the interference from CJ Perry? Odd. 

I’ll give Tony Khan a bit of credit for that. Why humiliate someone on the way out? I don’t think any of this has hurt AEW, and Khan hasn’t purposely lowered Andrade’s stock just because he’s chosen to leave, as we’ve seen so often over the years. Fair play to Khan for that, at least.

[LaGoosh]

1 hour ago, andrew "the ref" coyne said:

Such a fantastic video. Long live the king.

 

This guy does loads of great AEW videos. They should hire him. Imagine opening the first episode of Dynamite in 2024 with a video like that. It'd be epic.

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

8 hours ago, RedRooster said:

I’ll give Tony Khan a bit of credit for that. Why humiliate someone on the way out? I don’t think any of this has hurt AEW, and Khan hasn’t purposely lowered Andrade’s stock just because he’s chosen to leave, as we’ve seen so often over the years. Fair play to Khan for that, at least.

I think due to the nature of the CC, they had to give him a win somewhere, and with the way they planned it out, he just happened to be Bryan.

Also interference was probably relevant to the Miro / CJ story. 

It also sends a message to potential talent who may come in the future that Kahn is not a complete dick. I remember when Vader was one the way out and how they treated him. I'd rather a talent has one big token loss, then have him lose to Freddy Joe Floydd* every Shotgun Saturday night.

(*Slight exaggeration, but you get my point). 

[air_raid]

10 hours ago, andrew "the ref" coyne said:

I remember when Vader was one the way out and how they treated him.

..... is that a chance to talk about 90s WWF? Yes it is.

Remember how shabbily they treated him on telly, having him squashed by Taker quite quickly around SummerSlam and doing jobs to any Mark Henry or Bradshaw you could name, and generally being an easy win for any heel that needed one? He was still treated with respect on the road.

On 9/15/2022 at 6:42 AM, air_raid said:

JUNE 1998
THE MAIN EVENTS 

In Corpus Christi and Tyler TX Austin and Taker get a couple of days off so it’s Vader vs Kane on top.

THE CARDS
Kane’s with Vader in Albuquerque and that’s the big guns mostly covered. When it isn’t New Age Outlaws vs LOD 2000 Vader is mixed up with DX ; it’s often a six man or eight man involving Triple H, X-Pac and/or Droz. MSG and Minneapolis it’s Vader and Hunter for the Euro belt ; booking sheet still has DX as heels mostly.

 

On 9/16/2022 at 11:09 AM, air_raid said:

JULY 1998

THE MAIN EVENTS
The champ is still recovering from a staph infection. Prior to a run of The Undertaker vs Kane in No DQ matches, 1st in Wheeling it’s a big six man with Vader & Farooq and The Rock & D’Lo Brown added in... the modest 6K arena in Bethlehem sells out for Austin/Taker/Vader vs Kane/Mankind/Rock. Louisville there’s no Taker so Vader partners Austin - which makes sense as a night either side the Mastodon works Kane.

THE CARDS
Vader vs Mark Henry is fairly regular.

VARIATIONS 
That no holds barred match I mentioned in Phoenix? Mankind vs Vader.

 

On 9/18/2022 at 8:16 AM, air_raid said:

AUGUST 1998
THE MAIN EVENTS

Taker misses Columbus so it’s Stone Cold vs Mankind and Kane vs Vader

THE CARDS
Vader getting revenge on Mark Henry. 

VARIATIONS 
There’s a no holds barred match between Mankind and Terry Funk in Toronto and Montreal, at Nassau and Albany Micks with old pal Vader.

 

On 9/20/2022 at 6:48 AM, air_raid said:

WWF SEPTEMBER 1998
THE MAIN EVENTS

...three shows in small music halls in Warwick RI and Mass (hello old friend Cape Cod Melody Tent) with New Age Outlaws vs The Rock & D’Lo Brown on top and Vader beating Kane by DQ before the Springfield Civic where the tag title match goes on last again but Kane’s beating Vader in a cage.

THE CARDS
Rock vs Vader is an unexpected program as Hunters done his knee.

 

On 9/21/2022 at 6:37 AM, air_raid said:

OCTOBER 1998
THE MAIN EVENTS
Big difference at MSG? Mankind’s actually in a triple threat vs Vader and Ken Shamrock, the main has a cage involved but it’s Steve Austin vs Undertaker vs Kane vs The Rock.

8th in State College PA, near 7000 for Rock vs Vader and Mankind vs Kane. 21-22 they run Green Bay then Rockford (like WCW did in August!) with Rock/Vader and Mankind vs Ken Shamrock vs Kane.

THE CARDS
The Rock is a busy man. When not in those main events he does a sandwich of singles with Ken Shamrock either side of a reprisal of his series with Vader, and Charlotte, and Greensboro play host to triple threats

DEPARTURES
MSG is the last hurrah for The Man They Call Vader. Truly an odd one, he’d always commanded a decent spot on the road and never had there been a more obvious difference in philosophy between the man booking the house shows (JR) and the guys in charge of TV (Vinces) - he’s been cannon fodder on TV since the Kane losses. It’s staggering that a guy with his overall package ended up surplus to requirements for the WWF, maybe it would have all come together if he hadn’t ruffled the wrong feathers (HBK). And washed his gear more often.

 

[Supremo]

Wake up, babe. New AEW Renaissance art just dropped.

An amazing shot. Mamma Wayne’s face! The crowd going mental! The security looking bored as piss as a man is murdered in front of him! Whoever keeps getting these shots of the most bonkers moments of each pay per view, they deserve the World. I love them so much.

Finally finishing this show, I can mostly just echo what everyone else has said. Easily one of the weakest AEW pay per views of all time, and certainly their worst of the year, but you’ll never see a worse pay per view with such an enjoyable final stretch of matches. From Christian vs. Copeland onwards, this was great fun. Probably yet another example of how spoilt we’ve all become. Close a 2017 pay per view with these matches and it’d probably be considered a Show of the Year.

Brilliant opener. Like a victory lap for how fantastic the Continental Classic had been. Every single competitor better off and in a more interesting, exciting position for being in the best American Tournament of all time. Specifically, Daddy Magic’s new role at the desk, playing a Dad watching his son on Sport’s Day, needs to become a regular thing going forward. It’s so brilliant when he gets all excited and proud, cheering Garcia on. Imagine the day Garcia raises gold! I’ll weep alongside Daddy!

Miro vs. Andrade should’ve been a winner and loser leaves town. I’ve no desire in seeing either of them ever again. Miro’s brilliant run as TNT Champion feels like decades ago. I refuse to believe there’s anyone other than Miro and CJ herself taking any enjoyment out of watching them play out their cuckhold fantasies on TV. Bore off.

As has already been mentioned, accusations or not, it’s time for Chris Jericho to fuck off. He hasn’t added anything to the product in nearly a year, there’s nothing interesting or exciting for him to do, and there was a tangible sense in this match that all this talent was being wasted just to keep Chris busy.

A whole generation of top, young talent, all in stasis, all floundering, all keeping Jericho semi-relevant. Bin Jericho off and all these lads would be better off, with more exciting prospects. Even Sammy Guevara, who I don’t rate at all, I can’t imagine any scenario where he isn’t thoroughly pissed off at being turned babyface again just because Jericho needed someone to tag with. Big Show levels of destroying a career via multiple, inconsequential turns. A year or two ago, you could argue Jericho was a 50/50 guy, who might shit the bed one month but then knock something out of the park the next. In 2023 though? We’re looking at 80/20 or even 90/10. Genuinely couldn’t tell you anything he’s done this year worth a shit.

The newly added baggage just made everything even worse. You couldn’t focus or enjoy anything for the horrible sense that everyone - participants included - were thinking the same thing. Shades of when Velveteen Dream carried on wrestling after his allegations came out. Flat-out impossible to suspend any type of disbelief when you can almost feel the other wrestlers themselves being pissed off for having their work tarnished by such a huge, dark cloud. Ricky Starks in particular has zero poker face. The lad has no time for Jericho’s bullshit.

On the other end of the spectrum, Christian Cage has never been better. This is the run of his career. What a heel. Fantastic match with Copeland. Tonnes of fun. Even the cash-in at the end. Write that down ahead of time and it would’ve sounded like the dumbest, cheapest thing ever. My boy Christian doing it though? Immediately getting his belt back like the slimy, horrible prick that he is? Forcing Killswitch to hand the opportunity over, teasing the inevitable babyface turn? Inspired. Am I right in thinking this is the first time anyone has ever cashed in like this, immediately winning back a belt they just lost? Kudos to them for coming up with a new, interesting way to do it.

Fun fact; Christian vs. Cope was the first full pro-wrestling match Mrs. Supremo has ever watched. The kids slept out for the night and I had it on whilst waiting for her to get ready to go out. Once ready, she sat down and watched a bit whilst we waited for the taxi. I offered to turn it off, but she ended up getting into it, such was the phenomenal performance of Christian. 

She thoroughly enjoyed watching that “idiot in a turtle neck,” get smashed from pillar to post, constantly trying to sneak away, marvelling at the violence of it all. “Those look like real punches!” “Can you run into the crowd? Surely that’s a bad idea!” “He’s not going to jump off the balcony is he?!” “How do they not get burnt by the fire?!” “How do they do this and still wrestle the next week?!” “What? So he wins it back anyway? No way!” Christian Cage - single handedly converting casuals with the best heel work you ever did see. For the record though; me suggesting Christian would be at All In next year was not enough for my wife to want to attend with us. Such a suggestion still got an immediate, “fuck off.”

But yeah; The Patriarchy are my favourite act in wrestling today. All playing their role perfectly, how can they both be the most despicable bastards alive, and yet somehow still feel like a wholesome family? This has got next year’s Christmas Card written all over it over it!

Mox vs. Kingston was a great finals to what’s been a great tournament. Brilliant watching these hardcases playing conkers with their own heads. Amazing finish with the flash knock out, too. Love all the MMA-inspired spots Mox peppers into his work. Also nice to see Bryan Danielson round off an undeniable Wrestle of the Year candidacy by being fucking brilliant at the desk, too. Nice touch that Nigel was gone before Danielson came out. Understated feud of the year already.

Chuffed to see Eddie get his flowers. Really nice moment when Mox gave him the big hug. What a man. What a babyface. For the longest time, it’s felt like a big Eddie Kingston run on top has been AEW’s version of “break glass in case of emergency.” It sucks that it’s taken this long for them to do it, but great to finally be here. He’s the best. Bring in all the WWE and NXT rejects you want. They’ll all fizzle out, whilst Eddie fucking Kingston will still be here and will still be the most authentic, likeable man alive. King of the bums!

Similarly, it’s great to see Samoa Joe reach his final form. Always felt like a missed opportunity when WWE never pulled the trigger. Really excited to see what he does as the most believable World Champion in the business. It’s just nice to have a World Champion you believe could fuck everyone up, you know? That shot of Joe flexing after winning? Top guy shit. I know kayfabe is dead and this stuff doesn’t matter at all, but still. Imagine being nine years old and discussing with your friends who would win in a fight between Samoa Joe and Seth Rollins. Laughable. Even Roman, who’s got the aura. Joe would eat his lunch.

Nowhere near as good as their Grand Slam match given Max’s limitations, but still a solid main event. Great finish, too. Babyfaces winning in their hometown has become such an expected trope in AEW that Joe winning so decisively felt huge. Like this crazy transgression as if something had gone wrong. Real heat. Awesome.

Hopefully MJF gets the surgery and goes away for a while. I think he’s fantastic and I love the babyface character, but it’s definitely time he goes away and builds some good will. He’ll feel huge if he returns to attack Cole in six months. I also think history will be kinder to MJF’s run in retrospect. Amazing matches with Danielson, the Four Pillars, Cole at Wembley, the tag match with FTR, Omega on Collision, the brilliant Summer of Love storyline. It’s a huge shame this Devil shit soured what had been a great run.

But yeah. Nowhere near the standard of the last couple of AEW pay per views, but going into a new year fresh, with the Devil bollocks finished, and Samoa Joe and Eddie Kingston leading the charge? I’m a happy man!

Edited January 3 by Supremo

[HarmonicGenerator]

18 minutes ago, Supremo said:

A year or two ago, you could argue Jericho was a 50/50 guy, who might shit the bed one month but then knock something out of the park the next. In 2023 though? We’re looking at 80/20 or even 90/10. Genuinely couldn’t tell you anything he’s done this year worth a shit.

I could just about make a case for his Falls Count Anywhere against Roderick Strong, but my feelings on him at the moment are closer to the other seven guys in the match on Saturday, so I'll just say maybe that was the 10 in 90/10.

[LaGoosh]

Looking at Cagematch Jericho had 26 matches in AEW this year. Going through them I'd say about six of them were good so that's roughly 23% good to shit ratio. It doesn't list how many promos he had but I'm 100% confident that none of them were good.

Edited January 3 by LaGoosh

[Supremo]

The Roddy Strong match is a good shout. In fact, most of the Adam Cole feud was quite fun. It was all cancelled out by that dog shit match at the pay per view though. Frankly, MJF doesn’t get enough credit for rehabilitating Cole’s career after that car wreck.

[RedRooster]

3 hours ago, Supremo said:

On the other end of the spectrum, Christian Cage has never been better. This is the run of his career.

There’s surely a case to be made for him being AEW’s best ever signing? Even before his heel turn, he was brilliant - the matches with Omega being particular highlights. I really hope he gets a run as World Champion before his time in AEW comes to an end. I’d have quite liked to see him be the one to end the MJF title run, but it sounds like Joe has had something of a career renaissance too, so I can’t really fault their decision to go with him instead.

[JLM]

For anyone who skipped the pre-show, I thought this Serena Deeb vignette was tremendous: