Paid Members LaGoosh Posted October 30, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) Yeah I think if people were getting injured specifically from these moves there's a case there for sure but Mox was concussed from a dive, Cole from jumping down a platform and Danielson from a forearm and elbow drop. Randy Orton's had more injuries than most wrestlers I can think of but he wrestles safer than anyone. Edited October 30, 2023 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 15 minutes ago, Infinity Land said: Can't think of many injuries that happened from elaborate moves. Where did I suggest that? My point was purely subjective - and based round how I felt about some of the more punishing bumps, which absolutely did happen in this match. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this exactly why we lost Kenny Omega for an extended period after his title run? It wasn't one particular injury that took him out. Freak incidents obviously do happen, but AEW's injury rate seems to be disproportionately high. @CavemanLynn's fantastic post sums it up really well, I think. I'm not going to pretend my untrained eye is anything but that - and my reaction to their injuries woes may well be completely off the mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 You're not wrong @RedRooster.  It's the number of marginal and wearing bumps that a wrestler like Omega takes that accumulate.  Watching him nowadays reminds me of reading a Stone Cold interview about the Angle-Benoit cage match where they just took suplex after suplex, and dives off the top of the cage, and he was shaking his head at the amount of punishment they were prepared to take in a single match.  And, well, look what happened to both in the succeeding years. I don't think anyone thinks Misawa died because of that last back bump, he died because of the damage he did over the years to his neck and back, so that in the end it was a simple move that broke him.  The "no compromise" style may be great for the slavering fans at ringside but I personally find it hard to watch knowing the history of wrestlers and injuries/deaths.  The sport has more or less eliminated unprotected chairshots and the fans are still happy, likewise it's not necessary to land on your head all the time to get a pop. We're celebrating Sting's final year as a wrestler at, what 65?  Christian is having the best year of his career as he hits 50.  John Cena looks like he'll be able to pop back for the occasional run well into his 50s.  That's a paradigm that wrestlers should be smart enough to want to emulate.  As @CavemanLynn said, the best MJF has been was doing double clotheslines and a kangaroo kick.  He could be doing that at 60 if he's smart.  And yeah, from a purely business perspective - AEW has had real issues with injuries, it shouldn't take something WORSE happening in the ring for them to get people to ease off the accelerator a bit, it's a smart business move. I don't trust the wrestlers really to make that call, as we have seen over the years they can be their own worst enemy (just go back and watch that Bryan Daniel v Orton match!!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted October 30, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, RedRooster said: My point was purely subjective - and based round how I felt about some of the more punishing bumps, which absolutely did happen in this match. Well that's the thing, maybe they look worse than they are because the wrestlers are good at their jobs? If you're wrestling at that level for a long time you no doubt know how to protect yourself. If Johnny Kickpads is doing it then yeah fair enough but chances are Kenny Omega knows what he's doing. I don't think AEW alone should have the finger pointed at them for this either. Big E broke his neck taking a belly to belly suplex on the floor in a complete nothing tag match. Kevin Owens bumps like a fucking maniac. The Money In The Ladder matches this year had some horrific shit in. It's just the style these days, unfortunately. Edited October 30, 2023 by LaGoosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Plus Christian is hardly a fucking inspiration for a safe worker all the mad spots he clocked up also there was a very long retirement in between that because he head was rattling. I love him now and what he does to adapt but he's another mad wrestler trying to do more than his body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Thought I'd add that yeah dropping people on your head isn't visually appealing sometimes (those Tiger 91's or whatever do look terrifying) but this week Bryan Danielson broke his face because Orange Cassidy punched a tad ascant. It's a business full of freak accident moments as well as being a bit dim, and I'd put that at all wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members mim731 Posted October 30, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 30, 2023 43 minutes ago, Loki said: I don't think anyone thinks Misawa died because of that last back bump, he died because of the damage he did over the years to his neck and back, so that in the end it was a simple move that broke him.  Yeah, and Misawa knew full well that it was on the cards at some stage, to the point he'd written a letter in advance to an unnamed opponent absolving them of blame if he died in the ring. So he must have had a clue it could be incremental if it happened rather than necessarily a single bad bump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRooster Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 35 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: Well that's the thing, maybe they look worse than they are because the wrestlers are good at their jobs? If you're wrestling at that level for a long time you no doubt know how to protect yourself. If Johnny Kickpads is doing it then yeah fair enough but chances are Kenny Omega knows what he's doing. Bryan Danielson is one of the best wrestlers I've ever seen, but he's taken some crazy risks throughout his career. The same could be said for Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Rey Mysterio and many others. The very best are often very willing to take the biggest risks with their own bodies. Safe moves can be made to look horrific, absolutely - but there are certain moves and bumps which are almost impossible to take safely. For me, it was Moxley's comments about concussion procedures that ate into me during this match. The way I felt watching it was nothing to do with concussion, but I think that was the catalyst for me feeling a bit off about the whole thing. 46 minutes ago, LaGoosh said: I don't think AEW alone should have the finger pointed at them for this either. Big E broke his neck taking a belly to belly suplex on the floor in a complete nothing tag match. Kevin Owens bumps like a fucking maniac. The Money In The Ladder matches this year had some horrific shit in. It's just the style these days, unfortunately. Oh totally, I absolutely agree with this. But this is an AEW thread. I also think the AEW style involves more punishing bumps than "WWE style", but that certainly doesn't absolve WWE from criticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Land Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 57 minutes ago, RedRooster said: Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this exactly why we lost Kenny Omega for an extended period after his title run? It wasn't one particular injury that took him out. Freak incidents obviously do happen, but AEW's injury rate seems to be disproportionately high. I think Will Ospreay who's said he's wrecked by 30 might be the better example over Kenny. Just because by the time time he was out for a prolonged period of time he was late 30s having wrestled since 2000. The only reason it was 9 months because it was multiple surgeries that had to be scheduled and different parts of the body. It wasn't just day after Full Gear get surgery and start the healing process. Everyone's different and working under different circumstances. We don't really know what Kenny Omega will be like pushing 50 or 60 and into retirement. End of the day there is no safe style of wrestling. John Cena's name has been used. We're talking about a multi-millionaire working for a billion dollar company. Someone that's had a litany of injuries that would have ended most would-be wrestler's career because they couldn't afford the top surgeons and dedicated recoveries that "only" kept Cena out for 2-3 months at a time. Add them all up and he'd have lost over a year to injuries and he would have benefited from time off the road when he started making movies here and there before going Hollywood full-time. https://www.thesportster.com/every-major-injury-john-cena-wwe-career-explained/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted October 30, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 30, 2023 They almost got me with this one. Top work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinity Land Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 If you noticed in the Dynamite tag with Danielson he comes to the ring with his left eye already injured. Belief is that it was the Andrade match that did. The tag worked around the injury to set up something in the future. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Yeah I just came here to post the same thing. At the very least we know it wasn’t the Orange punch.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 51 minutes ago, Infinity Land said: If you noticed in the Dynamite tag with Danielson he comes to the ring with his left eye already injured. Belief is that it was the Andrade match that did. The tag worked around the injury to set up something in the future. Â Maybe that Sammy Guevera can have a wee word with Andrade then. Be fine. Sorted. Bosh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted October 30, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted October 30, 2023 Spent half a week with a broken orbital bone in order to still wrestle the  advertised match and utilise the injury into kayfabe. The best ever/absolute nutter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted November 1, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted November 1, 2023 On 10/30/2023 at 10:02 AM, LaGoosh said: don't think AEW alone should have the finger pointed at them for this either. Big E broke his neck taking a belly to belly suplex on the floor in a complete nothing tag match. Kevin Owens bumps like a fucking maniac. The Money In The Ladder matches this year had some horrific shit in. It's just the style these days, unfortunately. A perfect example right here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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