SuperBacon Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Jake Paul and Logan Paul annoy all the right people, so I'll forever root for them to be honest. Cry more haters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Just now, SuperBacon said: Jake Paul and Logan Paul annoy all the right people, so I'll forever root for them to be honest. As Keith said, they're basically making heaps of cash without the traditional suits that most boxers need in their corner to get any kind of exposure. It's great. Truth be told, in decades to come, we'll look back on them both more for how they changed the game for the fighters who are coming up now than we will for their actual boxing ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverYield Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, David said: Sorry to break it to you, but every single professional boxer who laces up gloves is in it for the money. That's the very reason they're there. And how is that? By fighting schlubs who have ridiculous losing records? Go and look at the records of the guys Fury, Joshua, Hatton, Mayweather, all of them fought early in their careers. Or is it that he used his smarts to find a way to get paid for those early fights that you don't like? Should he have fought absolute cans with lopsided records in small halls up and down the US for next to nothing? Would that have been better? He substituted those bums that most boxers fight early in their careers for MMA fighters with recognisable names. There isn't much difference in the competition there. Paul was fighting other fighters who had similar boxing records as he did. No, there isn't. That kind of chat is yesterday's news. What sticks in the craw of "real boxing" fans is that Paul hasn't followed the traditional route of making zero money and beating absolute bums for the first ten or so fights of his career. He's had the sheer audacity to go out and put in the extra work of making a name for himself and generating a decent wedge of cash. Jake Paul is a very good athlete. He can crack, and he has a chin. Don't sell him short. Is he going to be world-class? Most likely not, but the notion that some 0-0 chump fighting in front of eight people at York Hall would flatten him isn't true. If it were, he'd have lost already by now. He's fought guys who know how to hit, and if he was a complete fraud he'd have lost by now. Teddy Atlas summed up Paul perfectly a few years back when he said: “He knows he needs a basic respect, an understanding of distance and range, and you can see he’s embraced these fundamentals. He’s allowing these to guide him as he advances and I give him credit for that. He’s raw. He’s green around the gills, no doubt. But y’know, he can punch. He can get your attention if he hits you." "He wants to be an entertainer. That’s a big plus. I don’t think people come close to understanding the importance of that." “I was asked what makes a good inside fighter by a reporter one time. Well, you got to keep your hands in good, offensive position. Rotate your shoulders. Don’t get tied up. Create those little six-inch spaces for a one-two punch. Move your feet backwards, create a little room when you get smothered. Have a sense about yourself, don’t lean in to catch uppercuts. But this is all a complete waste of time without the most important thing...You have to want to be an inside fighter! And that’s what I mean about Jake Paul. You gotta really want to be a fighter [to perform in front of big audiences] and he does.” “One thing I noticed was about the second Woodley fight, Is that Paul was starting to get calm in an uncalm environment. When you’re not calm [in the ring] it’s a graffiti board of thoughts. Everything’s all over the place. When you’re calm you can see specific forms. And I recognize that he is getting to the place where he can see these forms, where he can think clearly and execute a shot." “Everybody talks about it was a big right hand in Atlanta [that KO’ed Woodley], but that wasn’t what impressed me so much, it was the delivery system for the punch that he’d figured out would work. And that’s what struck me. With Woodley he bent down low, hit him in the body and [only] then he threw high. He knew that would make Woodley stand straight, because he thought the danger would be below, and then Paul would come above with the right hand. And he did. And nobody really talked about it." “I’m not making more of it than should be made, Paul’s still a guy in the very, very early stages of development. And don’t fool yourself and think he’s ready for more than he’s ready for, because he’s not. But he is making progress.” Is Teddy talking shite? Yeah, thank fuck for "that Saudi fella." I'm sure he has boxing's best interests at heart, eh? Yeah it's called prizefighting so they are all in it for the money but proper boxing people are also in it for a legitimate sporting sense, legacy, and competition. To suggest that Jake Paul and YouTubers are in it for a legitimate sporting sense, and not for money is ludicrous. Which is the route I mentioned Paul so should go, if he wants to be involved in proper sporting competition. Jake Paul isn't going to have a career anywhere similar to those guys because he doesn't want to, not knocking his drive or respecting his ambition because you can't, but is it coming from a sporting perspective, no. Yeah, basic respect for me comes from as I mentioned he mixes in pro gyms and has a go, but fundamentally he is terrible and how you think there isn't people boxing in York Hall who couldn't tune Jake Paul up absurd. Nobody mentioned anybody talking shit, it's all subjective and opinions anyway, no dramas is it, how boring would it be if we all thought the same. Come on now 🤣who's mentioning or assuming best interests? Did Eddie Hearn have Eubank Jnrs best interests at heart when he wanted a drained and depleted version of him to fight a juiced Connor Benn, did Don King have numerous names best interests at heart when he done half the cut throat shit he did, look at numerous instances in wrestling, who was thinking of best interests there, what about Dana white and that shambolic Power Slap stuff? If we thought about who had what in mind we would all turn our tellys off and watch no sport whatsoever. He probably doesn't have a care in the world beyond money, but if he wants to make the fights that people want to see, like bivol and beterbiev that he wants for June the 1st, then I will watch and so will many others, he's also brought 2 promoters together who wouldn't even look at each other a year ago never mind talk and sit side by side at a presser, he's also stated he wants to run the boxing as much like the ufc as possible, best interests? Unlikely? Money, 100%, everyone will be watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 minute ago, NeverYield said: To suggest that Jake Paul and YouTubers are in it for a legitimate sporting sense, and not for money is ludicrous. Why can't Jake Paul be in for both, just like those other "proper" boxers? Do you know him personally? If so, get us one of those Grape Primes off his brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverYield Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Just now, SuperBacon said: Why can't Jake Paul be in for both, just like those other "proper" boxers? Do you know him personally? If so, get us one of those Grape Primes off his brother. Maybe he is, who knows, we will see where he sits in the rankings in future and where he gets himself in terms of belt contention. Perhaps he will decimate all in front of him, and have a clash with Jai Opetai at some stage, who would quite likely maul him without getting out of first gear, or even Mairis Breidis. The weight he knocks about fighting in is filled with some very capable operators, who I doubt very much he would go anywhere near. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 37 minutes ago, NeverYield said: To suggest that Jake Paul and YouTubers are in it for a legitimate sporting sense, and not for money is ludicrous. 28 minutes ago, NeverYield said: Maybe he is, who knows, Well that was a quick turnaround! 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverYield Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 9 minutes ago, SuperBacon said: Well that was a quick turnaround! 😆 Not really, he's fighting imo for just money, not money and kudos, that's just my opinion, but who am I to say he may not knuckle down and try and make some serious waves, I can't possibly know that, irrespective of my opinion on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 46 minutes ago, NeverYield said: To suggest that Jake Paul and YouTubers are in it for a legitimate sporting sense, and not for money is ludicrous. Actually, there's probably a better chance that Jake Paul is in it for the love of the sport. He doesn't need the money, making $20 million annually from his YouTube channel alone. So yeah, I'd say he has a far greater love for the sport to be doing it when he doesn't have to. Whereas other "proper boxers" do it to get famous and make money. Jake Paul already has all of that without being punched in the face. He's doing it because he wants to, not because he needs to. He'd have been just fine financially if he'd never stepped foot inside a boxing ring. 50 minutes ago, NeverYield said: Yeah, basic respect for me comes from as I mentioned he mixes in pro gyms and has a go, but fundamentally he is terrible and how you think there isn't people boxing in York Hall who couldn't tune Jake Paul up absurd. Random guy on a wrestling forum - "Jake Paul is fundamentally terrible." Teddy Atlas, boxing hall of famer, trainer of world champions and professional boxing analyst and expert - “He knows he needs a basic respect, an understanding of distance and range, and you can see he’s embraced these fundamentals." Who to believe? It's a toughie, that's for sure. 48 minutes ago, NeverYield said: Perhaps he will decimate all in front of him, and have a clash with Jai Opetai at some stage, who would quite likely maul him without getting out of first gear, or even Mairis Breidis. The weight he knocks about fighting in is filled with some very capable operators, who I doubt very much he would go anywhere near. He likely wouldn't beat those guys, that's true. He's only a few fights deep into his career, but let's not pretend that he wouldn't jump in there with either of them if he was offered the chance. We've seen what he's like, and he'd be right up for going in there and giving it his best shot whilst making a ton of cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBacon Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 22 minutes ago, David said: Random guy on a wrestling forum - "Jake Paul is fundamentally terrible." Teddy Atlas, boxing hall of famer, trainer of world champions and professional boxing analyst and expert - “He knows he needs a basic respect, an understanding of distance and range, and you can see he’s embraced these fundamentals." Who to believe? It's a toughie, that's for sure. This has really tickled me. Excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverYield Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 5 minutes ago, David said: Actually, there's probably a better chance that Jake Paul is in it for the love of the sport. He doesn't need the money, making $20 million annually from his YouTube channel alone. So yeah, I'd say he has a far greater love for the sport to be doing it when he doesn't have to. Whereas other "proper boxers" do it to get famous and make money. Jake Paul already has all of that without being punched in the face. He's doing it because he wants to, not because he needs to. He'd have been just fine financially if he'd never stepped foot inside a boxing ring. Random guy on a wrestling forum - "Jake Paul is fundamentally terrible." Teddy Atlas, boxing hall of famer, trainer of world champions and professional boxing analyst and expert - “He knows he needs a basic respect, an understanding of distance and range, and you can see he’s embraced these fundamentals." Who to believe? It's a toughie, that's for sure. He likely wouldn't beat those guys, that's true. He's only a few fights deep into his career, but let's not pretend that he wouldn't jump in there with either of them if he was offered the chance. We've seen what he's like, and he'd be right up for going in there and giving it his best shot whilst making a ton of cash. I admire Teddy Atlas greatly. I think what he has done in boxing is fantastic, but Teddy Atlas can also over exaggerate and talk a whole load of shit at times. I don't follow MMA as heavy as others but I have seen some of his takes on MMA absolutely ridiculed by hardcores of the sport. And also some of his boxing takes have been heavily disagreed with. I do respect Jake Paul's drive, and I don't doubt he has made many a youngster walk through the door of their local ABC, which is a good thing. He's also shown people that with self belief and determination, you can market yourself, find you're little niche and make a living. He probably does love boxing in some capacity, but to knuckle down and take it serious like a contender does I'm not so sure. Coming back to Teddy Atlas though, just because he says Jake Paul has good fundamentals doesn't make it true for me, time and again we have seen boxing trainers not reading the room in title fights, and getting tactics totally wrong and being all lost at sea without a plan B. Even on this forum recently Tunde was discussed regarding his charge Anthony Yarde. I'm a 'random guy on a wrestling forum', as we all are, but Tunde is a licensed BBBoC trainer who cannot get the best out of his man at all. Random guys in their living room play armchair managers every Saturday regarding the Premier League, that's the nature of sport, its a spectator thing and people debate and say they would have done this and that. Random guys at home would book an angle a different way to how it's actually booked, it's just how it is. If it's out in the public eye it's up for scrutiny, comment, and difference of opinion. Same as lots of people called Ben Davison 'Boxercise Ben' when he is actually in my opinion a pretty good trainer, I think in time he could become better than Joe Gallagher in the 'trainers who have never boxed category'. Fwiw I think Ben is a student of the sport and a decent tactician, I mentioned above being all at sea without a plan B in some fights, that's Joe G at times. I disagree, I don't see him ever wanting to face any of them, or facing them if it was put on the table for him, he would get my maximum respect and applause if he did though. I think if anything he will carve a nice little route for himself with scalps that have been taken by some of the top guys, but that's about it. To walk into a gym, get in condition, spar and then take it the whole way by jumping in the ring deserves respect no matter who it is, I do respect Jake Paul, maybe my initial comments on him came across too dismissive, but I don't see him as someone who wants to truly test himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted January 31 Paid Members Share Posted January 31 Can't stand Logan, but Jake regularly makes Plastic Caesar look like the leech he is by generating boxing paydays for MMA fighters that dwarf their entire MMA careers' earnings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 5 minutes ago, NeverYield said: Coming back to Teddy Atlas though, just because he says Jake Paul has good fundamentals doesn't make it true for me, time and again we have seen boxing trainers not reading the room in title fights, and getting tactics totally wrong and being all lost at sea without a plan B. Even on this forum recently Tunde was discussed regarding his charge Anthony Yarde. I'm a 'random guy on a wrestling forum', as we all are, but Tunde is a licensed BBBoC trainer who cannot get the best out of his man at all. Random guys in their living room play armchair managers every Saturday regarding the Premier League, that's the nature of sport, its a spectator thing and people debate and say they would have done this and that. Sure, boxing trainers can get it wrong. And they have done so in the past, just like you mentioned. But to claim that Teddy Atlas isn't capable of spotting the basics in a fighter? That's a bit of a stretch. An amateur-level coach can do that, so someone like Atlas should be able to do it. I'm not sitting here saying that Jake Paul is a championship contender. He's not. He likely never will be. He's gotten into the game far too late for that. I don't think he'll ever crack the top ten. Or even the top twenty. But, to say his fundamentals are terrible is simply sour grapes from a "traditional" boxing fan. And to say that someone capable of making money elsewhere and who is already a millionaire many times over is in boxing "just for the money" seems incredibly short-sighted. He doesn't need the money. He could have done WWE like his brother and made money there. How many guys at the lower end of boxing would drag their backsides off their expensive couches in their mansions to go to a boxing gym and work out if they already had multi-millions of dollars in the bank? And a thriving entertainment business already? You'd be surprised how many of them simply wouldn't be up for it. But there's Jake Paul, going into the gym on the reg and taking a beating, all when he doesn't really have to. If that's not a love for the game, I don't know what is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverYield Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 3 minutes ago, David said: Sure, boxing trainers can get it wrong. And they have done so in the past, just like you mentioned. But to claim that Teddy Atlas isn't capable of spotting the basics in a fighter? That's a bit of a stretch. An amateur-level coach can do that, so someone like Atlas should be able to do it. I'm not sitting here saying that Jake Paul is a championship contender. He's not. He likely never will be. He's gotten into the game far too late for that. I don't think he'll ever crack the top ten. Or even the top twenty. But, to say his fundamentals are terrible is simply sour grapes from a "traditional" boxing fan. And to say that someone capable of making money elsewhere and who is already a millionaire many times over is in boxing "just for the money" seems incredibly short-sighted. He doesn't need the money. He could have done WWE like his brother and made money there. How many guys at the lower end of boxing would drag their backsides off their expensive couches in their mansions to go to a boxing gym and work out if they already had multi-millions of dollars in the bank? And a thriving entertainment business already? You'd be surprised how many of them simply wouldn't be up for it. But there's Jake Paul, going into the gym on the reg and taking a beating, all when he doesn't really have to. If that's not a love for the game, I don't know what is. I think it differs greatly in how you view somebody, what I mean by that is, I think Teddy could be generous with his words when talking about someone who came to the sport late and is learning on the job, which is more how I would see it, and would make him right in certain areas. I haven't followed him at all since that farce with Tommy Fury, but that recent fight he had with August there was vast improvements Edited January 31 by NeverYield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverYield Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I posted that too quick and don't know how to rectify it. What I wanted to add was despite the vast improvements, he still looks very raw. If you saw Giorgio Vasioli box this weekend just gone, in Belfast, he is the the infancy of his career and that left he landed to end the fight was just sublime, the timing and power of it was as seasoned as can get. But, its still early early days in the paid ranks for Giorgio, who thrived at Repton. That's where my first comment comes in. Jake probably has good basics for what he is,a late comer who is learning on the job, but that's as far as it goes, and to be fair to him that's all you can expect. But to someone who has boxed as a youth and done a bit before turning over, it's worlds apart. Again, that's to be expected though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted February 1 Author Paid Members Share Posted February 1 This is a low key banger as the kids say: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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