Paid Members BomberPat Posted November 7, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted November 7, 2023 49 minutes ago, Supremo said: There’s never been a company that paints in broader strokes. That's it, isn't it? WWE doesn't do subtlety. I've mentioned it before, but there have been times in the past when wrestlers have started doing a former star's moves, and people online have gone into overdrive about how it means so-and-so is coming back to feud with them - Kurt Angle starting to do the Anklelock was to set up a feud with Ken Shamrock, The Usos doing the 3D was because the Dudleys were being brought back, and I think last time I mentioned this someone brought up Triple H doing a Razor's Edge at some point in 2000/2001. I don't think there's a single instance of somebody doing someone else's move in WWE actually being a hint that they were bringing that person back. Based on that track record, Nakamura doing the Go 2 Sleep makes it considerably less likely that CM Punk is coming back. I'm all for a big surprise, and AEW obviously played a blinder with Punk's debut as an open secret (as, in fairness, did WWE to some extent with Cody's return), but I'm not sure that if they had the biggest free agent available to them booked to appear at an upcoming event, that they wouldn't be advertising that fact to actually get you to watch it. Perhaps more importantly, I'm not sure WWE have ever needed CM Punk less. I don't watch their product, but from what I see, they've had John Cena showing up and wrestling for them, The Rock appearing and teasing another match, a bunch of their champions and top guys are actually well-received and liked in their positions - whether that's Roman Reigns, Gunther, LA Knight, Cody Rhodes, Rhea Ripley, or now Logan Paul. They seem to, as far as their fanbase is concerned, be getting everything right. Why risk the potential hassle that CM Punk brings to the table now? Chances are he'll still be a free agent this time next year, there's no rush. If they do bring CM Punk in, for what? People are excited for the weirdness of him being there, but is anyone champing at the bit for a fifteen minute match against Seth Rollins that nobody will remember by the next morning? I will admit, though, that it will be quite funny if he comes back and ends up either as a part-timer headlining a pay-per-view at the expense of full-time talent or if The Rock still headlines Wrestlemania over him, or if he main events night four of a buy-one-get-one-free extravaganza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted November 7, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted November 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, BomberPat said: I will admit, though, that it will be quite funny if he comes back and ends up either as a part-timer headlining a pay-per-view at the expense of full-time talent or if The Rock still headlines Wrestlemania over him, or if he main events night four of a buy-one-get-one-free extravaganza. I am so prepared to C the return of CM Punk at C-vivor C-ries, that I have sent MiSu on holiday. I'm happy either way, whether its waving hello to Phil, or whether it will be Hello (again) Kitty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarlettChad Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Phil returning would be mental, for all the right and wrong reasons. Him going up against Naka and beating him, then fucking off for 3 months for Rumble Season. I'm all for it. I also doubt he'd cause drama backstage, He didn't from 06 to 2014, Sure he walked out, but did you hear of any backstage fights? That being said, I don't think he's coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted November 7, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted November 7, 2023 35 minutes ago, BomberPat said: Perhaps more importantly, I'm not sure WWE have ever needed CM Punk less. This is the thing nobody seems to be talking about. Four or five years ago? They’d probably have offered Punk the world. But now? When they’re selling out huge arenas every night, have top babyfaces and heels clicking massively on both Mondays and Fridays, with a Wrestlemania card already taking shape? They don’t need him at all. Where he may have once been the, “A,” side to their, “B,” side, that isn’t the case at all anymore. He needs them way more than they need him. Plus, even if we ignore what a toxic head case Punk has proven himself to be in the last two years, let’s not forget this is the man who walked out on a them, talked loads of damning shit on a podcast, refused to back down when they sued, took it to court and then won. Absolutely humiliated them. I refuse to believe they’re going to be so quick to forgive and forget, especially in the favoured position they’re currently in. Honestly, if I’m Hunter, I can only imagine the satisfaction of leaving CM Punk’s texts on read. I bet he laughs to himself at least once a day imagining those blue ticks. The one man who was never ever ever coming back now wants to come back. I’m more convinced than ever this whole thing with Nalamura is just a troll on Punk more than anyone else. Yeah, stay in shape, mate. We might need you eventually. Keep your schedule clear. Don’t call us, we’ll call you. And then they just never call him. Bow down to the, bow down to the king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted November 7, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted November 7, 2023 13 minutes ago, Supremo said: This is the thing nobody seems to be talking about. Well, we have, just in a different thread about a month ago. On 10/12/2023 at 11:08 AM, Loki said: Does Punk have value? Yes - ticket sales, merchandise he does still seem to move numbers. Does WWE need Punk? Absolutely no - they are now part of a much larger and more publicly visible corporation that wants as little drama as possible, they have great ratings and are making money hand over fist. Nobody in the WWE locker room wants to work with him, why introduce the aggravation that Punk always causes in locker rooms, the public embarrassment of his meltdowns, the negative blowback when you eventually have to fire him, just for more t-shirt sales? Anyway, sounds like they passed so unless Pip fancies a run in Impact or Japan, he's retired again. Perhaps Bellator could squeeze a few dollars out of getting him beaten up again? On 10/12/2023 at 11:21 AM, air_raid said: I don't think they care anywhere near about that as they used to. They run fewer live events now than ever before (discounting PandeMania era) so it’s basically TV tapings and PLEs where "the show"/"the brand" is the draw. It's a content factory. If they gave a toss about individuals being a drawing card in old school thinking, they'd never have unified the two world titles and given the sole title to a bloke that never clocks in for the best part of a year. In fact, about the same time this was talked about last…. On 10/11/2023 at 2:31 PM, wandshogun09 said: I’ve never seen one before, no one has, but I’m guessing it’s a White Hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 I’m not convinced they don’t need him. All is not well on the heel side of business; JD Mcdonagh is in a PPV main event for crying out loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted November 7, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted November 7, 2023 The other thing no-one is mentioning is that CM Punk in 2023 isn't a needle mover. Rampage did their biggest number when he returned. But the ratings for Dynamite and Rampage were coasting. Collision had a big debut and ratings after fluctuated. Lowest ratings were the night he got fired, but before then (and bearing in mind he was on it almost every week), ratings had dropped. Is it worth the money and drama just to get a one week spike and to stick 2 fingers up at Tony Khan? I don't think so. Maybe HHH was right all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: The other thing no-one is mentioning is that CM Punk in 2023 isn't a needle mover. Rampage did their biggest number when he returned. But the ratings for Dynamite and Rampage were coasting. Collision had a big debut and ratings after fluctuated. Lowest ratings were the night he got fired, but before then (and bearing in mind he was on it almost every week), ratings had dropped. Is it worth the money and drama just to get a one week spike and to stick 2 fingers up at Tony Khan? I don't think so. Maybe HHH was right all along. Whilst you’re not wrong, they won’t be thinking just about TV ratings… they’ll be thinking about Ari’s ‘flywheel’ (is that what he called it?). “Can this person increase merchandise sales? Can this person increase our social engagement?” Blah blah blah. I’ve decided I don’t really care. If he came back, great, I’ve always enjoyed him - when he’s not falling for the insider nonsense - and even in his troubled run in AEW he managed to have some absolute all-timer feuds with MJF and Eddie Kingston. There’s still some petals left on the flower. But, if he didn’t come back, it’s okay. Business is good, and the Mania season is cooking nicely. I think there’s zero room for him on the babyface side, but there’s definitely space on the naughty step. But, whatever, just don’t let anything that happens interfere with Cody finishing the story and I’m good. Edited November 7, 2023 by d-d-d-dAz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 55 minutes ago, Hannibal Scorch said: The other thing no-one is mentioning is that CM Punk in 2023 isn't a needle mover. Rampage did their biggest number when he returned. But the ratings for Dynamite and Rampage were coasting. Collision had a big debut and ratings after fluctuated. Lowest ratings were the night he got fired, but before then (and bearing in mind he was on it almost every week), ratings had dropped. Is it worth the money and drama just to get a one week spike and to stick 2 fingers up at Tony Khan? I don't think so. Maybe HHH was right all along. I guess the flip side to that for AEW is.. who IS a needle mover? Seems like there's no one person they can bring in to do that. They've got a ceiling. But as others have said, it's not just about TV ratings these days at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 2 hours ago, BomberPat said: People are excited for the weirdness of him being there, but is anyone champing at the bit for a fifteen minute match against Seth Rollins that nobody will remember by the next morning? There are definitely people who are chomping (is it actually champing, mind blown) at the bit to see Punk vs. Rollins. I mean, they're the same people that think Rollins is a good wrestler, but still, they are out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB6937 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 27 minutes ago, Vamp said: There are definitely people who are chomping (is it actually champing, mind blown) at the bit to see Punk vs. Rollins. I mean, they're the same people that think Rollins is a good wrestler, but still, they are out there... He IS a good wrestler. A good wrestler who can't pull together a decent character ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Lion_of_the_Midlands Posted November 7, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted November 7, 2023 If only there was a thread for the always scintillating ratings chat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gaffer Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said: If only there was a thread for the always scintillating ratings chat. Come on, it's weighing up Punk's potential investment return to WWE, not debating a 0.2 increase during the closing segment of a go home show. It's actually totally fine to discuss the business of the wrestling business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Hannibal Scorch Posted November 7, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted November 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, Lion_of_the_Midlands said: If only there was a thread for the always scintillating ratings chat. While I know it was slightly tongue in cheek I think the point was valid. Punk won’t be cheap. 3xDaz had a point about merchandise sales. Like with anything you need a ROI. Are ticket sales going to go up? No because they are already covering that. So merchandising is probably the only thing he’ll bring. But the locker room has people that don’t like him. And won’t like him coming back nicking another top spot. And considering he seemed to learn nothing from his suspension, I can’t imagine it being too long before a stink is caused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted November 7, 2023 Paid Members Share Posted November 7, 2023 2 hours ago, d-d-d-dAz said: I’m not convinced they don’t need him. All is not well on the heel side of business; JD Mcdonagh is in a PPV main event for crying out loud. Surely they’re switching him out for Rhea by the time the match happens? Unless his tribute to HBK’s selling at Summerslam ‘05 last weekend has gotten him in their good books? Anyway, forget Punk. The Miz busting out these moves last night obviously hints towards the inevitable Feud of the year he’ll have in 2024 with Will Ospreay. Imagine the promos. Imagine the matches. I perversely need to see them, bruv! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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