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IANdrewDiceClay

Vince has BritWres in his pocket.

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Fans will be paying double or more to see a card full of British talent that 6 months ago they were seeing having the same great high quality matches for far less.

Yes there will always be new talent coming through and local promotions to go and see but I don't see how going 'Wow I can pay double than I was before to see these wrestlers now' is a good thing. It's a good thing for the wrestlers (short term) and for WWE but that's about it.

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It was pretty much inevitable. You're either with WWE and do things their way, or you're against them. The Global Localisation plan for NXT means that this will expand into other territories as well. With the Saudi and TV deal money, the grip will only get tighter.

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1 hour ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Fans will be paying double or more to see a card full of British talent that 6 months ago they were seeing having the same great high quality matches for far less.

But it will be under the WWE banner and THAT's the selling point, not who is on the card.  The majority of a local show audience would go to a WWE show, but a tiny amount of a WWE show audience would go to a local show.  A good local show is just that, a show, but a WWE show is an event.

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1 hour ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

Fans will be paying double or more to see a card full of British talent that 6 months ago they were seeing having the same great high quality matches for far less.

Yes there will always be new talent coming through and local promotions to go and see but I don't see how going 'Wow I can pay double than I was before to see these wrestlers now' is a good thing. It's a good thing for the wrestlers (short term) and for WWE but that's about it.

No they won't, fans will just not go if it's too expensive, WWE had it's lowest drawing tour in the UK ever in October and I heard the NXT UK tapings didn't even sell out.

There are plenty of guys out there wrestling that are good, who aren't even signed to NXT UK, if WWE was to bump up the prices, fans would just go there.

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2 questions really. 

#1 Does everyone get an armband, and if they do what colour is it?

#2 What are the 6 people who also wear El Ligero's gear going to do now? I guess they will have to get their own gimmicks. For years you have never been more than 7 miles from an El Ligero match, now you might be. 

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8 hours ago, Keith Houchen said:

But it will be under the WWE banner and THAT's the selling point, not who is on the card.  The majority of a local show audience would go to a WWE show, but a tiny amount of a WWE show audience would go to a local show.  A good local show is just that, a show, but a WWE show is an event.

That right there is it in a nutshell.

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On 12/1/2018 at 3:17 PM, Keith Houchen said:

But it will be under the WWE banner and THAT's the selling point, not who is on the card.  The majority of a local show audience would go to a WWE show, but a tiny amount of a WWE show audience would go to a local show.  A good local show is just that, a show, but a WWE show is an event.

These WWE shows will also come with long chinlocks and Joseph fucking Conners. Hard pass.

Edited by Accident Prone

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5 hours ago, Accident Prone said:

These WWE shows will also come with long chinlocks and Joseph fucking Conners. Hard pass.

I'd take chinlocks over neckbeards any day of the week.

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Surely the "WWE is the draw" argument has failed with NXT UK, and that's part of the reason for this shift? When they're tying people down to stricter contracts because people aren't paying over the odds for NXT UK tickets to see guys they could see at the "local shows", it's clear that - at least in the case of this brand - WWE isn't the draw.

There might be a wider argument there about how effectively (or ineffectively, depending on which angle you're approaching it from) they've managed to separate the NXT UK brand from WWE as a whole - they've managed to convince the "indie" fans that NXT is somehow a separate entity (to the point that there are people who seriously think they're making a difference by "boycotting" WWE while still watching NXT events), which plays into NXT's current super-indie business model, but then NXT UK is now two steps removed from mainstream WWE, and isn't going to attract the attention of the Dad seeing a recognisable brand and buying tickets for his kids. This could well be an ongoing concern for all their global expansion.

 

In terms of how it's all panning out, we're starting to see key names lose "loser leaves town" matches even in promotions that were assumed to be safe. 

One of the stories was that WWE talents would no longer be able to take bookings against workers contracted to NJPW, ROH or Impact (and probably others), which honestly surprised me that this wasn't already the case - off the top of my head, I can't remember it having happened since the British Strong Style/Elite match in Fight Club Pro in the very early days of WWE UK, and there seems to be a clear division between promotions working with WWE talent and promotions working with NJPW talent. That was alleged to be a rule that would be in place with immediate effect, but EVE are still running Toni Storm vs. Jordynne Grace this weekend, so either there's a grace period allowing them to fulfill existing bookings, or some wrestlers are affected and others aren't.

 

I don't think this is analogous to the WWF shutting down the territories - yet - as the scene built itself up to relevancy without WWE's help, and there's enough non-WWE contracted talent out there to still sell out shows, and enough promotions doing well enough for themselves without relying on WWE talent. Now, of course, WWE could start signing up everybody else, start running more aggressively in key areas where smaller companies are successful, and change up their marketing/local promotion to make NXT UK a more viable concern, but for the time being, I think the UK is fine. 

Though there are still a huge number of fans for whom PROGRESS is the be-all and end-all of BritWres, and the question is - assuming WWE eventually close PROGRESS down - do those fans migrate to supporting other independent promotions, or do they just follow NXT UK? 

And, with fewer promotions having access to WWE talent, they'll potentially need to look elsewhere for their big draws, which in a best case scenario means companies thinking outside the box and coming up with some interesting stuff, but in a more likely scenario means a shift in who the key power brokers in the UK scene are. RevPro, with their NJPW connections, should be looking at this as a huge opportunity for a start.

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47 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

There might be a wider argument there about how effectively (or ineffectively, depending on which angle you're approaching it from) they've managed to separate the NXT UK brand from WWE as a whole - they've managed to convince the "indie" fans that NXT is somehow a separate entity (to the point that there are people who seriously think they're making a difference by "boycotting" WWE while still watching NXT events), which plays into NXT's current super-indie business model, but then NXT UK is now two steps removed from mainstream WWE, and isn't going to attract the attention of the Dad seeing a recognisable brand and buying tickets for his kids. This could well be an ongoing concern for all their global expansion.

 

Couldn't agree more. 

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ICW's Fear and Loathing show drew quite poorly yesterday, apparently.
Now, there could be any number of reasons for that of course but 2-3 years ago, as the rebel, underground promotion they drew a monster crowd to the Hydro - now they are WWE-affiliates their attendance for their biggest show of the year has dropped rather than increased.

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13 hours ago, Keith Houchen said:

I'd take chinlocks over neckbeards any day of the week.

Neckbeards are universal and not attached to any particular wrestling scene. You can go to your local Rumble'n'Raffle working man's club show and still find a couple at the back.

2 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said:

ICW's Fear and Loathing show drew quite poorly yesterday, apparently.
Now, there could be any number of reasons for that of course but 2-3 years ago, as the rebel, underground promotion they drew a monster crowd to the Hydro - now they are WWE-affiliates their attendance for their biggest show of the year has dropped rather than increased.

I originally posted this in the ICW thread;

On 11/14/2018 at 5:44 PM, Accident Prone said:

The problem with ICW was their booking and stories got incredibly tedious and repetitive. I was hooked on the company for around 2 years heading into the first Hyrdo show but then I started to see the lazy reliance on authority figures and fucking Red Lightening. I didn't even see the next F&F so I must've dropped them around the summer time, and I assume a lot of people did the same.

Even more recently, I heard about a great Joe Coffey promo a few months back and it was indeed great until it was all about Red Lightening again and who was on who's side and blah blah fucking blah. I don't watch non-WWE promotions to see WWE tropes out in full force.

But looking at the marketing for F&F, I think they know they've fallen into a dip due to all this and they appear to be fine with it. The latest promo video is basically them saying "We were the Big Bang of this current era of British Wrestling. Come and see where it all began" and you can't really argue with them. Grado and ICW were fucking massive, especially for a Scottish wrestling promotion, and were the entry way to the BrtiWres scene for those who were getting fed up with what was being offered by the mainstream.

Shame really, as me and my mates were really into ICW back in 2014/2015. The tour show they held in the small room of the Birmingham O2 was fantastic and is one of the most fun all-round shows I've been to. I wish them the best and, now that PROGRESS is in the toilet creatively, I hope they get rid of the dead weight and get those lost fans, and me, back on the wagon. 

Also, another stonking post from @BomberPat.

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I think ICW probably peaked a couple of years back, and we're seeing them gradually fall back to the kind of scale they "should" be running at - I remember thinking that they were overdoing it by booking as many big names and big shows as they were for a while, as they weren't able to sustain that level of buzz for long. Looking at the ICW thread, and comments I've heard from mates that have been to their shows, they've not felt like a "must see" promotion in a couple of years, and we're probably just seeing the natural progression of that.

The role of WOS in all this hasn't really been discussed either - it seems to me like every shift in how NXT UK operates, or every major announcement, has coincided with developments in WOS. Tapings coinciding, announcements made to try and overshadow them, and so on. I wonder if this is coming about from WWE getting wind of them getting picked up for a second series? I heard it on the grapevine a few months back that they were getting one, but nothing has been made official yet.

I don't think it can be overstated quite how much WWE want WOS to fail. 

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18 minutes ago, Accident Prone said:

Rumble'n'RaffleÔĽŅ ÔĽŅÔĽŅ

I think Rumble'n'Raffle Wrestling RNRW would go over big. Guaranteed Rumble, Guarunteed Raffle at every show.  

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On 12/1/2018 at 10:02 AM, Freddyjoe said:

You know what, why can’t we just say well done! For years we’ve been screaming for a UK brand and now we have it people are saying the WWE are killing the UK scene by tying down THEIR stars.

Well done to all the guys who are earning more money, have a WWE contract and are bettering their life.

Secondly, I’ve no affiliation to either of these promotions it’s nice to see them get into big arenas and such like but if they are gone who really cares? There will be others and usually the one that stick their head above the parapet do slightly better than those before them. 

Lets just sit back and enjoy. 

I just saw this.

I get what you're saying, but this is arguing from a worker's perspective, not a fan's. Of course it's great for the industry from the wrestlers' perspective, but we're on a fan forum, and to be honest, there's a good argument that, from a fan perspective, it's potentially shit. We want alternatives to WWE, because not everyone wants the same creative approach or "feel". UK fans have been waiting for the scene to do better for a long time, and WWE incorporating options to shut down any promotion they work with that has built up a decent fanbase runs completely counter to that. UK fans don't necessarily want to watch promotions with the same creative approach as WWE - if they did, they'd watch WWE. And they don't want the alternatives to WWE, that they've taken time to find out, spend money on in terms of travel, tickets, and accommodation, and invested emotionally in, to be shut down just because the company they were trying to avoid in the first bloody place doesn't like it.

"If they are gone, who really cares?" 

The fans who watch them, that's who. They're fans.

Also, believe it or not, there are workers out there who want to wrestle, but are highly aware that, for whatever reason, they'll most likely never get to work for WWE, and will happily work the indy circuit on a regular basis. Wrestling, like a lot of creative industries like acting, dance, etc., isn't just a payday, it's an outlet for enthusiasts. These promotions get shut down, and they miss out on a payday and a chance to do what they love. 

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