Steve Justice Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said: The Peruvian farmers growing quinoa you mentioned earlier? Yeah, I don’t eat that. It is an issue, but scale wise is minute compared to the damage within the meat industry. If I start cooking with it I’ll look for fair trade/research it before I decide to use it. Honestly though, it’s like telling someone not to do a shot of whiskey while you down the rest of the bottle. World hunger could literally be ended if people went Vegan. Okay. They aren’t coming from a sincere place and aren’t well informed. Because if they were, they wouldn’t be eating meat. Excuse me, don’t even try and pretend that your first first post tonight was an attempt at a sensible conversation. Me and Keith agree and disagree loads and he is capable of not throwing in petty jabs at every opportunity. Whenever you’ve been sensible before I’ve done my best to treat you with the same respect, but tonight you came in with the full intention of being a dick and you know it. You are a bit thick, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey_Piste Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said: I made vegan fajitas tonight, made the sauce nice and thicker than usual and it worked a treat. Â Might have a go at making my own tortillas next time. Soft tortillas area piece of piss to make, instead of using a rolling pin I have used two thick heavy books covered in clingfilm as a make shift press. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 Just now, Steve Justice said: You are a bit thick, though. Hey man, not my fault if people want to intentionally misinterpret everything I say or twist things. I’ve just debated multiple people at once rather quickly based on research I’ve been doing for years. If you’d think I’m thick so you can ignore what I have to say that’s fine. Whatever helps you sleep at night mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Justice Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said: Hey man, not my fault if people want to intentionally misinterpret everything I say or twist things. I’ve just debated multiple people at once rather quickly based on research I’ve been doing for years. If you’d think I’m thick so you can ignore what I have to say that’s fine. Whatever helps you sleep at night mate It does. G'night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 1 minute ago, UK Kat Von D said: The Peruvian farmers growing quinoa you mentioned earlier? Yeah, I don’t eat that. It is an issue, but scale wise is minute compared to the damage within the meat industry. No, stop it.   The discussion was around the point of people bringing up the racism in white middle class veganism and you saying how people use it as a defence.  You said that Butch isn't a vegan or a POC so his point isn't on firm ground.  I mentioned how a socialist would be concerned because, like most things, there is more than one issue overlapping.  You said how slaughterhouses are more damaging for workers rights than bankruptcy and slavery.  It's not a matter of the global impact, it's a matter of having a vested interest in the particular issue of middle class white veganism and workers welfare.  An international socialist has a vested interest as well as vegans. World hunger would end if a small percentage of the US defence budget alone was used to combat it, but it ain't going to happen because capitalism. Sterilisation would end world hunger too as would many other things, but that wasn't the point being discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey_Piste Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said: The Peruvian farmers growing quinoa you mentioned earlier? Yeah, I don’t eat that. It is an issue, but scale wise is minute compared to the damage within the meat industry. If I start cooking with it I’ll look for fair trade/research it before I decide to use it. World hunger could literally be ended if people went Vegan.  That world hunger fallacy annoys me so much, it's not just the meat industry, but all commercial farming is so destructive to the environment and the big problem is quality of soil in certain areas. there are a lot of place that aren't suitable for growing crops on, not without a hell of a lot of work to improve the soil structure. You honestly sound like Neil from the Young Ones.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:  The discussion was around the point of people bringing up the racism in white middle class veganism and you saying how people use it as a defence.  You said that Butch isn't a vegan or a POC so his point isn't on firm ground. Sorry, I don’t think it is on firm ground because it is intentionally selective. They only bring it up as a means of defending themselves, not for the people actually being effected.  6 minutes ago, Rey_Piste said: That world hunger fallacy annoys me so much, it's not just the meat industry, but all commercial farming is so destructive to the environment and the big problem is quality of soil in certain areas. there are a lot of place that aren't suitable for growing crops on, not without a hell of a lot of work to improve the soil structure. You honestly sound like Neil from the Young Ones.  The meat industry is worse because food is grown to feed animals rather than people. It funnels resources away from the poor and into the wealthy. Look at water use for consumption. A plant based diet has a tiny impact compared to a meat based one. It is a fact that the food system is broken. Yeah capitalism is damaging. Our personal choices are not obsolved though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted January 2, 2019 Moderators Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, UK Kat Von D said: As far as I’m aware, Butch is not a Vegan or a POC. So his reasoning for bringing it up, belief system and insights are going to be totally different from someone speaking from an informed place. For me, they have totally different value. They could easily call it “The Truth about Militant Vegans” and I would have no issue, because that is a totally different story to “The Truth about Vegans.” Im neither a PoC or Vegan, no. But it doesn't mean I can't think white veganism is oftem racist. As Keith pointed out, I'm a socialist, so this is exactly the kind of thing I read up on and take an interest in, not doing coke with people who were relevant on telly years ago and the rest of the capitalists.  https://veganvoicesofcolor.org/2017/01/09/dismantling-white-veganism/ https://veganvoicesofcolor.org/2017/01/29/intersectional-veganism/  The whole site is pretty intesrting to be fair, I reckon you'd enjoy it. Edited January 2, 2019 by PowerButchi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, PowerButchi said: Im neither a PoC or Vegan, no. But it doesn't mean I can't think white veganiusm is inherently racist.  https://veganvoicesofcolor.org/2017/01/09/dismantling-white-veganism/ “White Veganism is a reference to mainstream veganism—which is, undeniably very white, narrow, one sided and ignores intersectionality. It aims to expose and erase the invisibility of oppression on other animal bodies to the masses, while simultaneously ignoring and being silent about the very visible injustice and oppression of black and brown bodies, femme bodies, or differently-abled bodies.” Do you genuinely believe this statement and think it is a problem specifically within the Vegan community? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted January 2, 2019 Moderators Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) I believe that if BAME and LGBTQI groups feel it's a problem with Mainstream Veganism then it must be a problem as it's them it effects. It doesn't matter what I believe. My battle is with inequality, not veganism. Edited January 2, 2019 by PowerButchi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey_Piste Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said: Sorry, I don’t think it is on firm ground because it is intentionally selective. They only bring it up as a means of defending themselves, not for the people actually being effected.  The meat industry is worse because food is grown to feed animals rather than people. It funnels resources away from the poor and into the wealthy. Look at water use for consumption. A plant based diet has a tiny impact compared to a meat based one. It is a fact that the food system is broken. Yeah capitalism is damaging. Our personal choices are not obsolved though I've gone over this with you before, but the amount of water used doesn't mean anything, because most water used for feeding plants ends up being full of nitrogen and phosphates poisoning fish. and what a shocker than 16x the amount of food feeds more people. If one cow eats 16kg of grain and grows to the average size of 1,100kg that means you've taken food that would feed 20 people and turned it into enough meat to feed 2,200 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Rey_Piste said: If one cow eats 16kg of grain and grows to the average size of 1,100kg that means you've taken food that would feed 20 people and turned it into enough meat to feed 2,200 people. Doesn’t your maths mean that a cow will grow to 1,100kg after eating just 16kg of feed... Sorry if I’m being thick, but I think cows eat every day. So if you and a mate have a beef burger each, that’s 18 people who have gone hungry so you could eat. Also Butch, I had a look around the website you linked. I like to do that so I can judge the overall quality they put out and I found this one really interesting. https://veganvoicesofcolor.org/2018/01/21/meat-and-masculinity-politics/ Would you say you need to eat meat to feel like a man’s man? Edited January 2, 2019 by UK Kat Von D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted January 2, 2019 Moderators Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) Seriously speaking, no, I wouldn't. What do you make of the site? Edited January 2, 2019 by PowerButchi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted January 2, 2019 Author Share Posted January 2, 2019 Just now, PowerButchi said: No, I wouldn't. I dunno, the article had some really points. Could you explain why you wouldn’t feel less of a man at a restaurant asking to see the vegan menu while all your mates are sat around you having a steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey_Piste Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said: Doesn’t your maths mean that a cow will grow to 1,100kg after eating just 16kg of feed... Sorry if I’m being thick. That's literally what the infographic you posted implies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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