General Adnan's Football 17/18

[IANdrewDiceClay]

3 hours ago, PowerButchi said:

Gary Speed's been revealed as one of FOUR(!) people to commit suicide after being coached by Barry Bennell. Fucking arsehole. I hope they throw away the keys,

Hope Barry Bennell lives a long life full of misery and agony. I'd be quite pleased if he suffered horribly, to be honest.

[Gus Mears]

My sentiments exaclty. What a total fucking mess that was in every department except winning the shootout.

[tiger_rick]

Amazing last hour. Shitarse of a game before it broke down.

Ref was excellent. Pedro has no argument. William was 50/50. Tiny bit of contact but he was leaving his legs there. Morata deserved both yellows.

Fantastic pens from Chelsea. Not having this VARthing though. How has it helped at all?

[Statto]

Proud Norwich City fan tonight - having played about 30 minutes more FA Cup football than our average this season, I consider that a cup run.

[PunkStep]

So glad you have love for the Pidgin, @Gus Mears

29 minutes ago, tiger_rick said:

Fantastic pens from Chelsea. Not having this VARthing though. How has it helped at all?

Ah, the FogDude is strong in this one. 

Just kidding, I suppose it did help overturn a disallowed goal decision last night for Leicester. It's gonna take a while to find it's groove, but I'm all for it if it means we start to see more correct decisions because the referees are struggling more and we're in an age where we can clearly see wrong decisions.

Bollocks to this 'the errors are part of the game, there will be no talking points otherwise blah blah' that everyone keeps spouting. I hope it doesn't lead to a system similar to tennis with Hawkeye where you have a certain number of challenges available to you, but I've a feeling it will if you end up with refs pressuring the ref to use VAR regularly.

[tiger_rick]

There'll still be plenty of talking points because it won't work. Offside is factual, you're offside or not. But stuff like tonight, minimal contact and players exaggerating won't be any easier with video replay than it is with the naked eye. It's pointless. We'd be better off with some sort of Hawkeye system for offsides.

[PunkStep]

Yeah you're right with things like diving, penalties etc. The fact that we argue amongst ourselves and even the pundits on MOTD do the same, and that's after god knows how many replays, shows that it's not always cut and dry.

[SpursRiot2012]

It may not be perfect but if it helps referees in any sense to be more certain or less wrong about a given situation, I don't see the problem. As long as it doesn't slow games down too much or lead to excessive stoppages, I don't see the issue with giving referees an extra go at making the right decision using video. 

[Briefcase]

That's football though. You will get issues on corners where every players is holding onto the other to gain an advantage. I think the Willian decision was correct but perhaps didn't warrant a yellow card.

I think referees have appeared more calmer in the VAR games with that extra assurance.

As for offsides. I do wonder whether assistant referees are more likely to flag if there is a small element of doubt knowing that the decision can be reversed on VAR to play safe. I think that may be an area of interest. 

It's still new technology though so will take a while to get it right, I do think it will get to the point where every single thing (within the VAR rules) is challenged by players, I'm sure we saw Morata doing it tonight with the 'VAR' hand gestures much like we have seen players do when waving a card.

I'm all for it though. From a TV perspective I would like to see/hear the decision being discussed by the officials and think visibly in the stadium they could do more to make it all transparent. I'm sure that will come. 

[Duke]

This is probably just because I'm desperate for it to be true, but I'm not convinced morata full on dived so much as fell over (much like his first) If he did try to mislead the referee, then I'm concerned. Not because it makes him "that kind of player" but because it makes him really, really dumb. 2 players had been booked for diving earlier. One of them definitely did, one of them definitely didn't. Therefore, it's surely not worth diving. And if you do dive, don't go mental at the ref if he books you for it, because EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED MIGHT HAPPEN. It's one thing to lose your mind if you feel genuinely aggrieved, but if you actually did dive then you're just an idiot. 

[PunkStep]

50 minutes ago, Duke said:

but I'm not convinced morata full on dived so much as fell over (much like his first)

I haven't seen the incident in question, but this does raise something that I've often wondered in recent years, and that's the fine line between diving and genuinely losing your balance etc. Diving is being punished more these days, which is good to see as simulation is a shitty thing that I don't like to see. However, I think there must be no doubt that the player has dived.

With the pace of the modern game, I think it's certainly feasible that somebody can run at breakneck speed into the box, lose their footing and tumble down. Not a penalty, as there is no contact, but there are certainly cases that I wouldn't consider it to be a deliberate attempt to cheat the referee either.With this in mind, I'm not sure if the referee can make a decision with regards to punishing the player with a card. VAR being used to see whether it was a pen or not is fine, as it shouldn't take too long, but you'd be there all day if you're deciding whether it was a dive or not. I think a retrospective review of the incident post-match by a panel should address dive claims in order to dish out punishments (which they now do) and not have the referee punish dives during the match.

[westlondonmist]

1 hour ago, PunkStep said:

I haven't seen the incident in question, but this does raise something that I've often wondered in recent years, and that's the fine line between diving and genuinely losing your balance etc. Diving is being punished more these days, which is good to see as simulation is a shitty thing that I don't like to see. However, I think there must be no doubt that the player has dived.

With the pace of the modern game, I think it's certainly feasible that somebody can run at breakneck speed into the box, lose their footing and tumble down. Not a penalty, as there is no contact, but there are certainly cases that I wouldn't consider it to be a deliberate attempt to cheat the referee either.With this in mind, I'm not sure if the referee can make a decision with regards to punishing the player with a card. VAR being used to see whether it was a pen or not is fine, as it shouldn't take too long, but you'd be there all day if you're deciding whether it was a dive or not. I think a retrospective review of the incident post-match by a panel should address dive claims in order to dish out punishments (which they now do) and not have the referee punish dives during the match.

Diving should still be punnished during the game. Sometimes it is clear and they are diving for penalties which can change the whole swing of the game and in some cases get an opposing player sent off. Had Pedro got that penalty then Gunn could have been off.

[PunkStep]

I disagree. If a referee doesn't give the penalty, than how can not sending off the offender have a swing on the game? It would remain the same. It's not as though he's being reckless and causing a danger to other players on the pitch like in instances where a player is sent off for a bad challenge.

As you say, sometimes it is clear, but most of the time it isn't. How can it be? How can the referee make that assumption beyond doubt that a player tumbling over 100% dived?

[Duke]

Pedro's was worse because he jumped over the contact and yet somehow went from vertical to horizontal. Morata had constant contact from the Norwich player holding his shirt and having an arm wrapped round him. I can see how the ref might not think he's been brought down and thus not give the pen, but I'm not sure he was flouncing either. 

 

This doesn't matter too much, considering he immediately angrily mouthed off at the referee, thus deserving what he got. 

[Guy Bifkin]

I think one of the issues is if there is contact or a foul in the box, if the player doesn't go down or make a meal of it then a penalty never gets given. For example, the penalty given for the foul on Hazard by Bellerin in the 2-2 a few weeks back was a foul, but that penalty would never have been given had Hazrd not gone down easily.

I watch a lot of non league football and have seen at least 3 clear cut penalties this season not given because the player tried to stay on their feet. 

So in relation to the Norwich game, yes Pedro was being a filthy cheat but as a Chelsea fan, I'd be pissed off if Willian or Morata didn't make the most of what were borderline calls with actual contact.