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The "I've just watched ..." thread


mikehoncho

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Too Cool's debut promo, Sunday Night Heat - 13th June 1999

It's embarrassing for two grown men to act like this really, but credit to them, because they tweaked the act, added Rikishi and would be one of the most over acts on the whole roster in early to mid 2000. Also a testament to the time probably, back when we weren't all cynical cunts!

Edited by Otto Dem Wanz
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4 hours ago, Otto Dem Wanz said:

Too Cool's debut promo, Sunday Night Heat - 13th June 1999

It's embarrassing for two grown men to act like this really, but credit to them, because they tweaked the act, added Rikishi and would be one of the most over acts on the whole roster in early to mid 2000. Also a testament to the time probably, back when we weren't all cynical cunts!

So I clicked the link and have just spent the last hour with a massive grin on my face watching too cool and rikishi dance with loads of the roster, the pop when their music hits, be it for their entrance, or them dancing is something else, you forget how over these guys were. Takes you right back to good times and great memories( Fuck off Colt!) 

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Extreme Rules 2020. 

I literally have no words. They've jumped the shark with cinematic matches. Unbelievably bad. No clarity. Wins and losses don't matter - not because of 50/50 booking but because they don't have any clarity about who's won. Awful. 

Edited by Suplex Sinner
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Watching back some of the TV building up to SummerSlam 2001 because other than Invasion and Survivor Series, I'd forgotten quite a lot of the whole thing. It's obviously a catastrophic missed opportunity in wrestling history, but the product still felt somewhat hot and was consistently entertaining at this time, I think. If WCW and ECW had never actually existed and were just conjured into existence at the time the angle began it would have been seen as a pretty decent angle, I think, even though that's totally beside the point. 

Anyway the thing that's struck me this time is how agreeable a lot of the Alliance and their intentions seem to be. In competitive terms they were made to look like chumps, but in storyline terms - and this is constantly repeated - it's largely "All we wanted was a chance, but our father's a bastard and WWE is unscrupulous". They're constantly referring to themselves as a progressive environment. Sure, their captain is a paranoid psychopath, but he hangs with people way below his level. Shane, Steph and Heyman are infinitely approachable motivators. 

Okay, so they want to take Bradshaw and Hardcore Holly's jobs, but is there much harm in that? A wholly lovely organisation. 

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Thing is the lockdown was the perfect opportunity for them to go all in on a new direction and be the "we make movies" (drinks water) entertainment show they always wish/pretended to be and get away from endless pointless matches. Instead they seem to be veering wildly back and forth from boring wrestling to really shit student movies with no coherent middle ground, direction or quality. 

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Paul Heyman's promo on Vince in the run-up to Survivor Series is much the same; his motivations all make perfect sense, and if it had happened in any other context, it would be a babyface promo, it's just that it happened in the weird few months where Vince was a babyface. It all really only worked (insofar as it did) because "The WWF" was still enough of a babyface that fighting for the company against WCW and ECW was enough - and I think that mentality more or less died with the Invasion.

I actually watched Survivor Series 2001 last weekend, with my other half who, as far as I know, had never watched any Invasion-era WWF, so wasn't really going in with any preconceptions in terms of quality, or even really of who was an "Alliance" guy and who was WWF.

  • Christian vs. Al Snow was a fun little match - it's two solid workers, and there's some genuinely fun, innovative offence from Al Snow (as well as him hitting a brutal looking Snow Plow, which I thought he had stopped using by this point). It's indicative of the problem of the Invasion angle by this point, though, that Christian is the "Alliance" guy despite never having worked for a non-WWF major promotion, while Al Snow is (in spite of having been massively over in ECW) a WWF guy, but has completely shed any sense of his recognisable WWF gimmick here. He's not crazy, there's no Head, he's just Al Snow Off Of Tough Enough, and that's it. 
    Can you imagine, as a WCW vs. WWF angle was kicking off, someone suggesting that the blow-off PPV of it all would feature this match making the card?
     
  • William Regal vs. Tajiri was a nothing match, barely three minutes, without much in the way of the gimmicky shenanigans that would get either man more over than they were here. Regal is the Alliance Commissioner here, which is never really explained as a role (does he have authority to make matches on WWF shows? How does that work?), and just confuses things when you already have Stephanie and Shane as the owners of WCW and ECW, Paul Heyman in whatever capacity he is still a senior figure, and Steve Austin as the "Leader". Anyway, this is all about William Regal powerbombing Torrie Wilson, who was Tajiri's girlfriend, because they hadn't pivoted to Tajiri being the Marc Mero to her Sable yet. 
    Again, imagine trying to make sense of this match at the beginning of the angle - ECW's Yoshihiro Tajiri and WCW's Torrie Wilson fighting on behalf of the WWF!
    Worth pointing out here as well that, unlike Invasion, where they were tallying up the wins of each brand against each other, this show is "Winner Takes All" in the main event, which makes you question the point behind half of the WWF vs. WCW/ECW matches on the card.
     
  • Edge vs. Test is an even worse example of the Christian vs. Al Snow problem. When you put together a WCW vs. WWF card, it doesn't have sodding Test on it, and it certainly doesn't have him fighting another WWF guy. 
     
  • Dudleys vs. Hardys is predictably good, even if it's all to further a Jeff vs. Matt feud that didn't really go anywhere. The finish of Jeff opting to attempt a dive from the top of the cage rather than escape is good, because it plays to Jeff's character and makes sense. The Dudley Boyz as WCW Tag Team Champions always just felt odd. The Dudleys at least make sense as an ECW team, but the partnership with Stacy Keibler always felt random, and it felt at this point like we'd seen these two teams against each other a hundred times so it never felt like an "inter-promotional" match.
     
  • THE IMMUNITY BATTLE ROYAL. If you want a glimpse at the sorry state of affairs here, the WWF, having just bought out WCW, having their pick of all the talent in the world, put on a PPV Battle Royal filled with absolute schmucks. You have DDP and Raven in there reminding you of their wasted potential, otherwise the Alliance is represented by Tommy Dreamer, Justin Credible and Steven Richards (all of whom were invisible for most of the duration of the angle), Shawn Stasiak, Lance Storm, Billy Kidman and The Hurricane, while the WWF don't fare much better, with The APA, Albert, Perry Saturn, Funaki Crash Holly, Billy Gunn, Chuck Palumbo (already becoming Billy & Chuck, which I don't remember at this point at all), and Spike Dudley. Tazz, Hugh Morrus and Chavo Guerrero all get involved as "free agents", apparently having been fired from The Alliance, and Test bullies his way into the match by beating up Scotty Too Hotty. 
    It's rubbish, Test wins, and proceeds to do fuck all with the stipulation.
     
  • The Six-Pack Challenge is something I remembered fondly at the time - it's the emergence of Trish Stratus as a serious in-ring competitor, with her winning feeling like a genuine shock at the time, plus the debut of Jazz, who back then I was a mark for just by virtue of her having been in ECW. I didn't remember that the match doesn't even go five minutes, and is a sloppy mess.
     
  • Right. The main event. It's built up with all sorts of drama around who's turning from each team, and so on, which we all know after the fact.
    Before the closing stretch, this match absolutely falls apart. I was trying to find anything online that might explain it, because something fucks up. Earl Hebner is constantly scratching his head and wiping his face on his sleeve, both - I assume - signals that he's heard/is acting on something coming through his earpiece. There's a point where whatever they're meant to be doing clearly falls down, and Austin and Jericho ad-lib some stuff, that ends up with one of them bouncing off the ropes, into just awkward grappling and tussling. It's the most obvious "oh shit, what now?" bit of wrestling I think I've ever seen at that level. Shortly after that, Kurt Angle gets whipped toward the ropes, only to really awkwardly shuffle, turn around, and hit a clothesline without ever touching the ropes - which made me think that maybe a rope or turnbuckle had snapped, but there's nothing obvious there.
    Anyway, a good half of this match is a complete mess as a result. And it's another one where it might have been a perfectly acceptable angle if it hadn't been sold to us as WWF vs. WCW - the "WCW/ECW" team containing Shane McMahon, Kurt Angle, and Stone Cold Steve Austin isn't what anyone would have wanted. 
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49 minutes ago, BomberPat said:
  • THE IMMUNITY BATTLE ROYAL. If you want a glimpse at the sorry state of affairs here, the WWF, having just bought out WCW, having their pick of all the talent in the world, put on a PPV Battle Royal filled with absolute schmucks. You have DDP and Raven in there reminding you of their wasted potential, otherwise the Alliance is represented by Tommy Dreamer, Justin Credible and Steven Richards (all of whom were invisible for most of the duration of the angle), Shawn Stasiak, Lance Storm, Billy Kidman and The Hurricane, while the WWF don't fare much better, with The APA, Albert, Perry Saturn, Funaki Crash Holly, Billy Gunn, Chuck Palumbo (already becoming Billy & Chuck, which I don't remember at this point at all), and Spike Dudley. Tazz, Hugh Morrus and Chavo Guerrero all get involved as "free agents", apparently having been fired from The Alliance, and Test bullies his way into the match by beating up Scotty Too Hotty. 
    It's rubbish, Test wins, and proceeds to do fuck all with the stipulation.

Wasting this idea was one of the weirdest things from that time - you'd have thought 'Absolutely cannot be fired' would be great for storylines. I'd have loved to see him flouting the rules as much as possible, before panicking as time starts running out on the year.

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It's not like Test wasn't just being an insufferable dickhead and a bully, it wouldn't have taken much for them to push that to another level by having him use his "immunity" as justification. The pay-off of someone being a dick for a year and knowing that they would get their comeuppance at the end of it, on a precise date, could have been a lot of fun.

Alternatively, you had Tazz in there as a guy who had left the WWF for the Alliance, but then turned on them out of pride because he didn't like being belittled by Steve Austin and Paul Heyman. If he had won it, you had someone that neither side wanted/trusted any more, but is still there. He could have been a midcard Stone Cold with an angle like that (discounting the fact that it was Tazz and he was retired less than a year later, obviously!). 

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7 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

It's not like Test wasn't just being an insufferable dickhead and a bully, it wouldn't have taken much for them to push that to another level by having him use his "immunity" as justification. The pay-off of someone being a dick for a year and knowing that they would get their comeuppance at the end of it, on a precise date, could have been a lot of fun.

That's one of the weirdest things about it, looking back. At the time, Test was the most interesting and intriguing person to win it, and the one with the most storyline potential. And that's just a weird sentence to type under any circumstances. 

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1 hour ago, Chris B said:

Wasting this idea was one of the weirdest things from that time - you'd have thought 'Absolutely cannot be fired' would be great for storylines. I'd have loved to see him flouting the rules as much as possible, before panicking as time starts running out on the year.

I've argued this for years. WWF had squandered the true potential of the Invasion, and then followed that with wasting what could have been a great year long storyline to push someone to the top of the card. Even if it was Test.

I literally do not remember it being followed up in any manner following Survivor Series.

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Bobby Heenan's HOF speech. 

One of the absolute best things to ever come out of wrestling. Spinal Tap level in terms of quotes per minute. It's on the Network if you want it - no can do on the YouTube link - and it's always worth watching back. The way he works the room I'd put up with my favourite stand up sets ever. It's just incredible.  

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On 7/20/2020 at 10:43 AM, Chris B said:

Wasting this idea was one of the weirdest things from that time - you'd have thought 'Absolutely cannot be fired' would be great for storylines. I'd have loved to see him flouting the rules as much as possible, before panicking as time starts running out on the year.

 

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just watched the buried alive match for the first time in years. id forgotten how brutal for the time it is. Theres a spot where taker does what i can only describe as a over theback piledriver when he drops Mankind down on his head from behind.

last 5 min is up there with the swamp match but the rest of it is a fantastic "hardcore" match. 

Edited by Sheffbag
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