Who is/will be in The Hall of Fame that shouldn't?

[FLips]

The most obvious one to start with (and just get out of the way) is Koko B Ware, who is essentially like putting Santino in, but who else shouldn't be there that already is or is likely to be inducted?

Rikishi was an odd choice, at least on his own. The whole fuss with Scotty 2 Hotty regarding not getting a mention is warranted, as Rikishi would be nothing without Too Cool; yet I wouldn't say Too Cool or Rikishi whether alone or as a whole warrant a spot in the HoF but if they were, all 3 at once is the fairest way as they were arguably more over than he was.

Another (probably controversial) one is Owen Hart. He was great as a technical wrestler, no doubt, but he hardly changed the business. He was the 90's answer to Dolph Ziggler, Kofi, Swagger et al, but with the Hart name - technically sound, can put on a great match, but was average on the mic and wasn't getting out of the midcard ever. I'd argue if it wasn't for his untimely death and the fact he was a Hart, nobody would even remember him outside of his matches with Bret and 1-2-3, and for breaking Austin's neck.

Someone brought up the possibility of Ivory in the other HoF thread too, which is what made me think of this because my immediate reaction was "Ivory? Why?". Immediately forgettable, the women's division wouldn't have changed with or without her.

So go on then, who have you lot got?
 

[drkopen]

I think its important to understand that this isn't a hall of fame its a WWE hall of fame. In reality its their to make money and generate extra interest in the Mania weekend not to honour people who have made a contribution to the business

[air_raid]

Completely agree on Rikishi and Ivory.

 

Rikishi's qualifications for being in the Hall Of Fame were "comes from big wrestling family" and "was popular during the Attitude Era" and if you break the latter down, his heel turn killed him dead so he really had less than a year in the category of true, genuine superstar. He was not an innovator, he did not win lots of titles, by todays standard or by the standards of his prime years, he did not contest loads of great matches. The only way he stands out is in terms of being "unique" down to his look, the way he got over and the fact he liked forcing his bum into people's faces. He was a unique character in 2000, but let's be fair - the roster was full of unique characters. That's why the show was so great. Maybe getting as popular as he did on such a stacked roster is worthy of a footnote in history, but Hall Of Fame? I think that's pushing it.

 

Ivory was a wrestler in the womens division for several years and held the belt a couple of times. So what? Trish deserved it. Lita deserved it. Madusa deserved it. All pioneers, trend-setters or performers that helped make or change the landscape. Ivory was just.... there.

 

Owen is a tough one because while he did bring a style and some moves to his matches that to begin other guys on the roster weren't really doing much of (outside of maybe The Rockers with ranas and flashier kicks and later the Steiners with the suplex variations), he didn't really achieve much for it and was later eclipsed by the Kid in terms of making people sit up and go "Wow!" Plus, from a "deserve it" factor, he wouldn't have gotten his main event run in 1994 if he hadn't been the top guy's brother. I'm not saying it wasn't great, it was, but he wouldn't have gotten it.

 

Let's not forget, the poster boy for "why the fuck is he in?" - Vince Sr's chauffeur, James Dudley. Sure to get a mention when his grandsons, Buh Buh Ray and D-Von are eventually inducted.

 

I think its important to understand that this isn't a hall of fame its a WWE hall of fame. In reality its their to make money and generate extra interest in the Mania weekend not to honour people who have made a contribution to the business

 

Fine, but for the sake of discussion let's enter into the spirit of kayfabe and pretend there's merit to it all. None of anything that happens in wrestling really matters outside of wrestling, but inside wrestling "being a Hall Of Famer" is presented as a big deal, so let's pretend it is.

[JakeRobertsParoleOfficer]

for me

 

nWo as a unit

Taker

Sting

Rude

Demolition - arguably WWFs premier tag-team 87-90

Bischoff

Luger (a premier player in both feds)

Sid Eudy

Big Show (7x world champion wcw, ecw,wwf) & a top WWE star for 16 years

Dudley Boys

[air_raid]

for me

 

nWo as a unit

Taker

Sting

Rude

Demolition - arguably WWFs premier tag-team 87-90

Bischoff

Luger (a premier player in both feds)

Sid Eudy

Big Show (7x world champion wcw, ecw,wwf) & a top WWE star for 16 years

Dudley Boys

 

Read the thread title again, numbnuts. Or the opening post at all, for that matter.

[Callum1993]

Maybe he did read it and he's just a mental?

 

For me i'd go with the British Bulldog. If you aren't putting Owen in then I wouldn't put in Bulldog either. As a part of a tag team he was great but  as a singles guy he was pretty poor most of the time. Other than Summerslam 1992 there isn't a singles match of his that I would go out of my way to watch. He seemed to be stuck in the WWF midcard for years doing little of note. Then he had a godawful run in WCW then the terrible run in WWF in 1999. For me i'd say he was overrated on the basis of the match in 1992 and doesn't deserve to go into the HOF.

[Carbomb]

I don't think "how much they changed the business" is a good criterion by which to judge. There are plenty of guys in the HOF who didn't change the business, but they contributed in their own way. As much a fan as I was of him in his early years, could anyone say Jericho changed the business? As exciting as the TLC matches were, did Edge & Christian, the Dudley Boyz or the Hardy Boyz really change the business? Did Angle?

 

Let's face it - the proportion of people who changed the business in any noticeable way (great or little) is actually quite small. Off the top of my head, out of those I can list:

 

Gorgeous George

Buddy Rogers

Bruno Sammartino

Vince McMahon

Jim Crockett

Hulk Hogan

Roddy Piper

Ric Flair

Dusty Rhodes

Jerry Lawler

Andy Kaufmann

The Rock

Stone Cold

Scott Hall

Kevin Nash

Goldberg

Triple H

Shawn Michaels

The Undertaker

Bret Hart

Andre The Giant

John Cena

Paul Heyman

Ken Shamrock

Mike Tyson

Cyndi Lauper

Mr T

Chyna

Trish Stratus

Baby Doll

Arn Anderson

Tully Blanchard

Barry Windham

JJ Dillon

Rikidozan

Giant Baba

Antonio Inoki

Misawa Mitsuharu

Big Daddy

Max Crabtree

El Santo

Mil Mascaras

Dos Caras

 

 

There are a load more, but even if you were to list them all, it still would come anywhere close to the number of people who would easily qualify for the WWE HOF.

[AshC]

JBL.

[air_raid]

For me i'd go with the British Bulldog. If you aren't putting Owen in then I wouldn't put in Bulldog either. As a part of a tag team he was great but  as a singles guy he was pretty poor most of the time. Other than Summerslam 1992 there isn't a singles match of his that I would go out of my way to watch.

 

The only problem is that at SummerSlam 1992, Bulldog was the main drawing card for the legitimate biggest house in terms of the actual number of human beings in attendance that they've ever drawn. Ever. That and being the biggest draw in company history in the history of his country, arguably in all of Europe, and I'm more than happy for Smithers to go in.

 

As exciting as the TLC matches were, did Edge & Christian, the Dudley Boyz or the Hardy Boyz really change the business?

 

Ummmm...... yes? Because prior to those three teams having the kind of matches they had with each other, nobody else in company history had done them. Watch the Rock/HHH ladder match from SummerSlam 98 (thrilling as it was) and then watch the ladder match those three teams had at WrestleMania 16. They essentially created the concept of the TLC match and completely re-defined what wrestlers would do in ladder matches for the rest of company history. You won't see a Money In The Bank match where there isn't a spot inspired by or adapted from something that happened in one of the matches those six men had.... and they did it all first.

[Carbomb]

 

As exciting as the TLC matches were, did Edge & Christian, the Dudley Boyz or the Hardy Boyz really change the business?

 

Ummmm...... yes? Because prior to those three teams having the kind of matches they had with each other, nobody else in company history had done them. Watch the Rock/HHH ladder match from SummerSlam 98 (thrilling as it was) and then watch the ladder match those three teams had at WrestleMania 16. They essentially created the concept of the TLC match and completely re-defined what wrestlers would do in ladder matches for the rest of company history. You won't see a Money In The Bank match where there isn't a spot inspired by or adapted from something that happened in one of the matches those six men had.... and they did it all first.

 

 

Alright, will concede that one. But my point still stands in general - that the HOF is populated with many guys who deserve to be in there who didn't change the business. It takes a lot to do that - not necessarily prodigious talent, but the right combination of talent, circumstances, timing, etc.

 

For example, I'm a huge fan of Macho Man, and think he was one of the greatest of all time, but is there any point in the history of the wrestling business he could legitimately be said to have changed? If there is, I'm delighted to be corrected, but I can't think of one right now.

[air_raid]

Sure. I don't think anyone is saying being a game-changer is the only or even the best criterion for going in, but it certainly helps validate a lot of entrants. If you don't have "won a shitload of belts" "drew huge" or "main-evented three Manias" to your name, being an innovator or pioneer is at least something to stitch to your sash. But there are plenty of guys who have gone in and will go in just because their careers were outstanding in other ways. Macho Man was one, Kurt Angle will be another. Still struggling with Rikishi.

 

JBL.

 

Jesus. He'll go in based on having a long career as wrestler then commentator, and because Vince loves him, but honestly there might not be a better example of "just a guy that had a run" than him. A career that doesn't stand out to me in any way at all, and if the Hall should truly be reserved for either "one of the best ever" in terms of winning stuff or drawing money, or making a lasting impression or influencing people.... well, JBL is another Koko for me. Just another guy, fortunate enough to be around in an era of two world titles and be in the right place at the right time when Eddie couldn't cope with being champion. Twat.

[Undefeated Steak]

Blimey, saying JBL or Rikishi shouldn't be in is setting the bar way too high. Rikishi's one of the most recognisable names from the Attitude era. And JBL was great in APA and throughout his WWE title reign. Hardyz and E&C should go in all day long. We're asking who should be in the Hall of Fame, not who should get in shape and pin Lesnar! 

[Vamp]

Didn't Jericho suggest the original money in the bank gimmick? Not just on screen I mean. That's had quite That's had quite an impact on things.

[air_raid]

And JBL was great in APA and throughout his WWE title reign.

 

Jesus, it's a good job I'm not a mod. That's a ban right there!

 

I thought he was shit. I stopped watching SmackDown because he was on it, and he was shit. His matches were shit, and his jump from half of a tag team that wasn't getting near the belts ever again to WWE Champion was utterly retarded to me. In hindsight some of his promos, interviews and angles were amusing, but if he gets to go in, then anyone that won a World title needs to go in too, because I don't see what else he achieved of note.

 

For comparison, Christian also has had a really long run, was great in a tag team (that contributed a lot more to the company than the APA ever did) and also got to win a World title in the "two World titles era" - twice in fact - and I don't see any clamour for him to go in as a solo inductee.

 

Didn't Jericho suggest the original money in the bank gimmick? Not just on screen I mean. That's had quite That's had quite an impact on things.

 

Sort of. He suggested the ladder match with the winner to receive kind of like "a wish being granted" type deal, be it a title match, or getting to have a match with any opponent he wanted, or basically anything they wanted that the GMs/Vince/whoever could grant. If memory serves from Jericho's book it was Vince that decided the prize would actually be the instant gratification title shot scenario. What a fun gimmick the briefcase has been, too.

[CTXRussomark]

I honestly don't think there's anyone I'd be completely against going in. I view the HOF the same way I do a roster - there's openers, midcarders and headliners. If someone has a significant body of work but never made it past the midcard (like Koko B Ware) I think its fine for them to go in. Hell I'd be fine with Barry Horowitz going in.