UFC 182: Jones vs Cormier

[wandshogun09]

The Time Is Now. Well, in a few weeks.

 

 

PPV MAIN CARD

Jon Jones vs Daniel Cormier - UFC Light Heavyweight Title

Donald Cerrone vs Myles Jury

Nate Marquardt vs Brad Tavares

Kyoji Horiguchi vs Louis Gaudinot

Hector Lombard vs Josh Burkman

 

FOX SPORTS 1 PRELIMS

Danny Castillo vs Paul Felder

Marcus Brimage vs Cody Garbrandt

Shawn Jordan vs Jared Cannonier

Evan Dunham vs Rodrigo Damm

 

FIGHT PASS PRELIMS

Omari Akhmedov vs Mats Nilsson

Alexis Dufresne vs Marion Reneau

 

OK, finally, finally it's here.

 

Jon Jones vs Daniel Cormier. We've been waiting for this for what seems like forever now.

 

If you can't be arsed to read this post, feel free to skip it. But you MUST watch this awesome Jones vs Cormier promo first;

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=6uq8WBN7YDY

 

Best fight promo the UFC has ever put out? I think so.

 

Some background on how it got to this, well let's start at the beginning. Apparently, the beef originated from a chance meeting at UFC 121 back in October 2010 and they immediately got off on the wrong foot.

 

Here's Jones' recollection of first meeting Cormier;

 

"The whole story behind me and him is just so silly. I met him, and I came up to him with a big smile on my face. He's another black guy in the sport, and I felt the need to say hello to him, and I was just like 'hey man, I hear you're a great wrestler' and all this stuff, and he's like 'Yeah, yeah, you don't know who I am?' I'm like 'No I don't know who you are, but my coaches were telling me that you wrestle on the Olympic level.' And I was like 'I bet you that I could take you down.'

 

It was my way of trying to develop a new friendship, and he just took it so seriously, and he was just so offended that I didn't know who he was, and from that moment on he decided that there was a beef between us. I was just trying to reach out to him at that moment, and he just decided that there wouldn't be a friendship between us.

 

It's cool by me. If this guy has some personal vendetta or chose to have a beef with me it's fine. It just kind of sucks because both of us being African-American guys in the sport I think we should get along and respect each other, but that's not the case."

Jones just wanted some African American solidarity then.

 

 

Here's Cormier's version;

 

"This whole thing started, with Jon and I, back in 2010. I had just started fighting and I was in the back at the Brock Lesnar vs Cain Velasquez fight. And just out of nowhere he walked up to me and was kind of looking around me, and he goes 'You look like a wrestler'. He just said that to me out of nowhere. I said 'I'm probably the best wrestler you've seen'. Then he proceeds to say something like 'Get cauliflower on your other side and maybe you can get a takedown against me.' I'm like 'Guy, you don't even know me!' It's the weirdest thing, I don't understand. I'm like 'When you were in high school, I was on the Olympic team. You're supposed to know your Olympians.'

 

This is where this whole thing started. And we've discussed that and I thought we were done with it, but obviously we're not.

 

I would not have expected Jon Jones to know who I was, but I would not have expected him to say that to someone he didn't even really know. You don't just randomly pick a person and start talking shit to them. It doesn't really make much sense.

 

That started a snowball effect and if you look back at twitter, I said something about it then Ben Askren got on him and then King Mo got on him. Everyone kind of dumped on him for making that statement, then he kind of played it off as if he didn't know who I was at the time. But even if he didn't know who I was, you don't just go up and disrespect someone."

The shit talk picked up steam again slightly when Cormier came over to the UFC in 2013. Even though Cormier was at heavyweight and not in Jones' division at the time, the digs and mud-slinging continued. It heated up a bit more when Cormier dropped to 205 earlier this year but by then Jones had his plate full with his new nemesis Alexander Gustafsson. But Gustafsson getting injured shelved the UFC's plans to hold Jones vs Gustafsson 2 in September.

 

In steps DC. The fight was set - Jon Jones vs Daniel Cormier for the light heavyweight title at UFC 178 in September.

 

From that moment on, things got a bit mental.

 

Everyone knew these two were super competitive and wouldn't give an inch in front of the media, but no-one expected what happened next.

 

 

 

It was you, Fredo.

 

A touch of foreheads was all it took.

 

 

Next thing we knew Dave Scholler was swatted aside, the UFC stage got pulled apart, bodies were falling everywhere, Cormier lobbed a shoe at Jones - all in a hotel lobby as startled people checked in and Conor McGregor took selfies with fans. Nutty scenes. Shades of the Lewis vs Tyson press conference brawl.

 

The very same day, Jones and Cormier had to do TV appearances and interviews together. Which led to that video of them talking more shit to each other where Jones got caught out unaware that the cameras were capturing everything.

 

This was all happening in early August. I was on my honeymoon at the time, I was asleep and woke to find about 7 texts off my brother. I thought something bad had happened. Turned out he was sending me blow by blow updates on all this Jones-Cormier shit. The fight was less than two months away. Everyone was counting the days...

 

Then Jones got injured. Fight delayed until January 3rd. FUCK OFF!

 

But now here we are, again just a few weeks out. It's genuinely one of the biggest fights in UFC history. It's a rare perfect storm of two fighters at their absolute best, meeting at the perfect time, who also happen to really dislike each other.

 

So yeah, I'll wrap this up. I can't fucking wait for this fight. After a rough 2014, this is the way to kick off 2015. It's going to be a hard one to top for the remaining 362 days of next year.

 

Oh yeah, there's some other fights.

 

Err, the rest of the card's pretty solid but forgive me if I can't be arsed. Fights like Cerrone vs Jury, Lombard vs Burkman, Horiguchi vs Gaudinot - these are quality fights. I'll enjoy them all, I reckon. But we all know what this card is about. The rest is just trimmings.

 

 

"Fuck Jon. You hear that Jon?"

[jimufctna24]

I think Jones picks apart D.C from a distance. I also think Jones can control D.C in the clinch if it goes there. However, I am sure the vast majority of MMA fans want D.C to light up Jones from the inside, and/or score takedown after takedown. 

 

As much as I favour Jones, it is all guess work. Cormier has not really shown any weaknesses in his previous fights, and neither really has Jones (other than a brief scare on the ground against Vitor, and I doubt D.C is going to try and sub Jones)

 

The unknown is what makes the fight inside the cage intriguing. The antics and personalities adds the spectacle element. Add in the fact they are two of the three best 205ers in the world, and the fight is a success on every level. It ticks all the boxes

 

Can't wait. 

[David]

Even taking all the shenanigans out of the equation I really cannot wait for this fight. Jones and Cormier are legit #1 and #2 in the 205lbs division. 

 

Throw in the fact that the seem to hate each other and you have a real fucking barnburner. This is going to be epic.

[jimufctna24]

Even taking all the shenanigans out of the equation I really cannot wait for this fight. Jones and Cormier are legit #1 and #2 in the 205lbs division. 

 

Throw in the fact that the seem to hate each other and you have a real fucking barnburner. This is going to be epic.

Yep, even if these two were best buds, I would be looking forward to the fight. As I said, both have unspoilt auras, and the winner will be the legitimate number 1 in the world. It is the old "unstoppable force meets the unmovable object". However, the press conference has probably doubled the buyrate, and my anticipation level.

 

I am a J.J fan, but D.C is clearly the good guy in this rivalry. It is very hard in combat sport to reduce two fighters to simply being a "good guy" and a "bad guy". Real life rarely works in that way. The only other occasion off the top of my head where I felt there was a clear hero/villain dynamic in MMA was GSP vs Hughes in 2006, and maybe GSP vs Kos in 2011. D.C and Jones is the closest to that dynamic in a long while.

 

The promo video even made me want D.C to win. It is very hard to root for Jones after seeing the end of that video, with the bewildered look on his chops when he realises he might be recorded.

 

I think Clyde Gentry said it best in his book about MMA. Sport and spectacle is mix you need to get just right, and when you do, it is dynamite. This fight is a tribute to that notion. 

[herbie747]

This is going to be epic.

 

I despise the overuse of the word epic - but this will actually be epic. Can't wait for it.

[pryko]

Ok, I'm going to be honest with this.  Daniel Cormier has fought twice at 205.  The first fight was against a nobody.  The second fight was against a legend who is past his best.  Daniel Cormier does NOT deserve a title fight at 205, nor really should he be seen as the number 2 guy at this weight class for the 2 fights he has won.  He has the skills to be the number 2 guy, that I do not disagree with nor do I doubt it, but he hasn't really fought anyone at 205 really has he?

 

However, I hope Daniel Cormier beats the p*ss out of Jon Jones for 5 rounds.  Takedown after Takedown after Takedown after Takedown.  And in the 5th round, ground and pound just because he can.  Also, based on what the 2 of them said that started the rivalry, I hope Cormier stops any takedown attempt from Jones.

 

I am a J.J fan, but D.C is clearly the good guy in this rivalry. It is very hard in combat sport to reduce two fighters to simply being a "good guy" and a "bad guy". Real life rarely works in that way. The only other occasion off the top of my head where I felt there was a clear hero/villain dynamic in MMA was GSP vs Hughes in 2006, and maybe GSP vs Kos in 2011. D.C and Jones is the closest to that dynamic in a long while.

I don't remember why everyone would see GSP as the bad guy in the fight? Surely you can't mean the greatest 170er of all time (until CM Punk fights at that weight), Josh Koscheck was seen as a "bad guy" in any fight.

[lambyUK]

Everyone knows who I'm rooting for here, but let's look at the event that set off the whole thing.

 

For me, the "I bet I could take you down" comment proves just how much of a smug cunt Jones really is. Here you have an elite level wrestler, an Olymplan who during those olympics was one of the favourites to win gold and considered one of the best wrestlers on the planet. For Jones to come out with something so smug, and the fact he can't see how rude it was, says everything about the guy. Also, him saying he never knew who he was?? Absolute shite.

 

He's a child in a grown (talented) man's body.

 

I also remember Jones' interview on Jimmy Kimmel belittling Cormier's 4th placed finish at the olympics. Cormier responded with this lovely burn.

 

 

 

I can't describe how i would feel seeing 5ft 10 Cormier throw a 6ft 4 beast in Jones through the air. I just pray this happens.

 

Edit:- Just seen Pryko's post. Sorry Pryko, but what a load of shite. Say Cain Velasquez comes down to 205, and fought a nobody and got a title shot, would you say he was potentially 2 or even 1 in that division based on his own accolades?

 

Cormier is too small to be a bloody LHW let alone HW. He's the strike force Grand prix champion, has beaten Bigfoot, Big Country, Frank Mir, Josh Barnett, Dan Henderson, Patrick Cummins (who has since proven to be a good 205er) and is an Olympian. The guy is by far number 2 at LHW.

 

Look at Gutsy and Johnson's record, neither of those can match it.

[Dead Mike]

Jones by repeated eye poke.

 

I hope DC takes this. I've not the same hatred for Jones as other do, I think he's pretty amazing tbh but Cormier is a beast & one of the most exciting guys in the sport right now. His demolition of Hendo was staggering & this fight throws up so many questions & possibilities. I think if Jones can work out, & keep his range early he can outstrike DC. It all comes down to Jones being able to stop the takedown or not.

 

 

Cerrone on the undercard too! If he takes out Jury then he's got to be close to a title shot & would likely be my fighter of 2014. On an absolutely monster tear.

[wandshogun09]

Edit:- Just seen Shane's post. Sorry Shane O, but what a load of shite.

Poor Shane O. Check the author of that post again, lamby. You jumping the gun bastard, you.

 

I agree with your point though. Cormier is deserving. The man looks physically smaller than the middleweight champion, yet he's dominated and finished some of the bigger and most dangerous heavyweights like it's nothing. Has Cormier even lost a round in his career? Sure, his 205 resume isn't the best but when you look at the run he's on as a whole, it's incredible.

 

And another thing that I think is important to remember - Cormier dropping to 205 wasn't the typical case we usually see when a fighter changes weight class. Take Edgar for example. As awesome as he is/was, he dropped to 145 because he was in no man's land at 155 after two consecutive losses in title fights. Faber dropped to 135 after the crushing loss to Aldo at 145. There's loads of cases like that where guys are trying to reinvent themselves. Cormier was dominating heavyweights. It wasn't like he couldn't hang. He dropped because Cain was champion and they didn't want to fight each other.

 

Cormier absolutely deserves the title shot if you take into account his full body of work. Especially when you think, he was probably #3 ranked heavyweight before he dropped. He would've almost certainly had a title shot at heavyweight by now if he'd stayed there. He's done enough all together to warrant a title shot.

 

Literally the only guy who could legitimately argue he deserves it as much/more is Gustafsson. But Gustafsson was given the shot and got injured. It wasn't like the UFC fucked him over. Then this Jones-Cormier thing took on a life of its own and it became a bigger animal entirely than Jones-Gus 2 would've been (and that would've been big as well). It was THE fight to make once all that shit went down in August.

[lambyUK]

Shite...sorry Shane. God knows why I thought that! Edit will be applied.

 

Another Edit. I know why now. I had the UKFF open on two browsers and I was reading Shane's post in the general thread whilst ridiculously posting to this one.

 

Wand, you know what, based on calibre of opponents, I believe that Rumble should be ahead of Gustaffson.

 

Rumble demolished Phil Davis, and destroyed little Nog. He's also beaten Arlovski at Heavyweight.

 

Gusty, whilst giving Jones a major problem, hasn't actually beaten anyone of major note in my opinion. Shogun is his biggest test and he wasn't too convincing in the end.

[wandshogun09]

Tut tut, you should know us blokes can't multi-task. The most I can do is eat dinner and watch telly at the same time. Any more than that and I short circuit.

[Egg Shen]

Ok, I'm going to be honest with this. Daniel Cormier has fought twice at 205. The first fight was against a nobody. The second fight was against a legend who is past his best. Daniel Cormier does NOT deserve a title fight at 205, nor really should he be seen as the number 2 guy at this weight class for the 2 fights he has won. He has the skills to be the number 2 guy, that I do not disagree with nor do I doubt it, but he hasn't really fought anyone at 205 really has he?

 

 

But DC dropped with the promise that he'd be moved into a very position, its not your usual division change. He dropped to 205 whilst at the same time being the hottest heavyweight in the sport (outside of the champ).

[David]

Ok, I'm going to be honest with this.  Daniel Cormier has fought twice at 205.  The first fight was against a nobody.  The second fight was against a legend who is past his best.  Daniel Cormier does NOT deserve a title fight at 205, nor really should he be seen as the number 2 guy at this weight class for the 2 fights he has won.  He has the skills to be the number 2 guy, that I do not disagree with nor do I doubt it, but he hasn't really fought anyone at 205 really has he?

 

You know you're up against it when even I disagree with you on someone's legitimate right to a title shot! 

 

And I disagree with you completely.

 

The guy is 15-0, and has scored wins over the likes of Frank Mir, Josh Barnett, Bigfoot Silva, Roy Nelson and Dan Henderson. That's a who's who of the UFC heavyweight division with Dan Henderson thrown in for good measure!

 

Another question is, who else deserves the shot more? Gustafsson? Possibly, but he lost in his first titleshot. He'll get another (I reckon he'll be next in line if he beats Rumble) against the winner most likely.

 

Who else is there?

[Guy Bifkin]

Whilst I don't necessarily agree with pryko, Cormier hasn't fought any of the current top 5 heavyweight or light heavyweight contenders and that might be a factor in this fight. Jones has taken care of business against the very best, often beating them at their own game. I'm really excited by how he approaches the fight with Cormier. 

[pryko]

I feel I have mis-worded my argument.  Based on his overall body of work, sure he's a top level fighter.  I want to go on record and say, I don't mind him getting the title shot.  I want him to win it.  But, the guys he has beaten don't scream "Next Contender" to me.  If he'd have dropped straight from Heavyweight and got a title shot, that would have been fine.  he'd have been coming off of wins over Roy Nelson and Frank Mir.  But he dropped to 205 and is coming off of wins over Patrick Cummins and Dan Henderson.  Henderson can still go, and probably is in the same bracket as Mir and Nelson as top level guys who probably haven't got another title shot in them.  But for example, if let's say Alexander Gustaffson moved up to Heavyweight and beat Frank Mir, would that put him in line for a Heavyweight title fight?  If Donald Cerrone moved up to Middleweight and beat Rich Franklin, would he deserve a Middleweight title shot?

 

Maybe I 'm wrong.  I just don't see a guy dropping down from Heavyweight, beating a no-name, no ranked, 0-0 UFC guy and an 84 year old Dan Henderson as being the outright deserving Number 2 guy in the division.

 

Putting it into a little perspective, again that I may be wrong on and I may get abuse for, there are people who say Conor McGregor doesn't deserve a title fight after beating 3 guys in the UFC 145 division, 1 of which was a Top 5 ranked guy at the time, and another who is currently ranked in the Top 15, yet Cormier has beaten the current Number 8 ranked 205lber and 2 Top 15 Heavyweights, but is the clear out and out number 2 guy in the division.

 

Like I said, I'm looking forward to the fight, I hope he wins, he is a Top Level guy who has a great chance of walking away with the title, I just don't get the contradictions sometimes from fighter to fighter.