UFC 178: Johnson vs Cariaso

[jimufctna24]

Johnson - Sub

Alvarez - Dec
Connor - Dec
Romero - Dec
CAT - Dec
Cruz - Dec

 

Everything I hear about Romero is encouraging. The bookies have him as a slim favorite as well. 

[jimufctna24]

If I could simplify events

 

I think MMA/Boxing are at their best when they combine both spectacle and sport

 

Froch vs Groves was the finest combat rivalry I have lived through. It had two world class boxers, a classic story, and public intrigue. Inside the ring it delivered as well.

 

It is the same with MMA

 

Lesnar vs Mir delivered for me on both levels (sport and spectacle). At the time Lesnar and Mir were seen as top heavyweights, and the public interest/drama was present as well. Watching Lesnar pummel Mir in the second fight was decisive drama, it was not pretty, but it was climatic (it was not boring either)

 

Mighty Mouse delivers in the cage, just not out of it. On the other side of the coin, I am not going to tune in for gimmick fights in 2014, where there is little credibility involved (I never watched Tank Abbot role around in his back yard, or the Yamma pit fighting event years back)

 

It is a delicate balance, but when MMA (and boxing), get it right, things can be quite amazing. Some examples

 

Frank vs Baroni

 

Frank vs Cung Le (California and my bedroom were rocking)

 

Anderson vs Chael 

 

Anderson vs Weidman

 

Tito vs Chuck

 

Lesnar vs Mir

[d-d-d-dAz]

I like Mighty Mouse, but I'll concede he's not always exciting.

 

I just find his athleticism fascinating.

[Egg Shen]

spot on Jim.

 

I was gonna use Groves-Froch as an example of a sporting contest that transcended all expectations because it became a feud. The bitterness and anger was all coming from the Froch corner, but watching Groves manulipulate situations and use mind games as part of his gameplan was just fascinating, the whole thing was just incredible.

 

The pychological warfare that comes into plat pre-fight is massive in the fight game, even if its fabricated, its usually fabricated for a reason. It's all part of the game and I fucking love it.

[jimufctna24]

I like Mighty Mouse, but I'll concede he's not always exciting.

 

I just find his athleticism fascinating.

I do not think the quality of his fights is the issue.

 

Chael Sonnen was never that exciting a fighter. His fights with Okami and Marquart were hardly thrillers. The first fight with Anderson was a cracker, but it was more the climatic drama and who was involved rather than the action which made it a thriller. If that same fight would have taken place between two undercard fighters, it would be seen as a decent fight, instead of the pinnacle of MMA which many people hold it to be.

 

Mouse's fights have been decent. The blow out of Joesph B was most impressive, and his 5 rounder with Dobson was very good. But, what is there for fans to sink their teeth into, what does he offer technically that Aldo, Dillashaw or others do not.  There is no feud or aura to Mouse which interests the masses. Mouse also does not appeal to a certain audience. McGregor appeals to the Irish, Rousey has her own appeal due to her gender. Which section of the audience is Mouse special to?

[wandshogun09]

Bit nitpicky but...

 

Jim, as a Chael-a-maniac I thought you'd remember his fights more vividly. The Okami fight was actually pretty good. I remember that was on the prelims of the first Machida vs Shogun fight and when the fight was announced I distinctly recall a collective 'who gives a fuck?' Chael hadn't tamped up the trash talk yet and it was a fight that looked like being a 15 minute grinding stalemate. It turned out to be a pretty fun fight. So much so that it actually made the PPV broadcast, which was rare for a prelim that went the distance. I remember the consensus view from people on here basically being 'that Okami vs Sonnen fight was much better than I expected.' A pleasant surprise.

 

The Marquardt fight was quite great as well. Everyone was talking about Marquardt rematching Anderson Silva once he inevitably beat Chael, but it turned into something completely different. As I remember, Chael fucking battered Marquardt for the majority of the fight. That fight was the best and most vicious ground and pound he's ever dished out. Seriously, it's one of the best GnP displays you'll see. If he packed more power I have no doubt he'd have stopped Nate. Chael also showed heart in this fight by surviving a nasty cut and gutting through a tight guillotine choke. His performance here and then all the trash talk bagged him the shot at Anderson that Nate was meant to get.

 

So yeah. You're talking shite, Jimmy. Hot shite. Need to brush up on your Chael P knowledge so some cunt like me can't nitpick the fuck out of it. Now if you'd said his fight with Dan Miller wasn't much cop, I'd wholeheartedly agree.

 

You're right though in your overall point. Chael didn't have an exciting style most of the time. What made his fights exciting was that he'd talk so much shit, or he'd already have his target on his next opponent after the fight, that the stakes felt like they'd raised. That gave his fights added drama for me.

 

And that brings us full-circle to Conor McGregor. Like him or not he's got that same thing going for him. People want to either see him back up his words, or have to eat them. Just like Chael. No-one is indifferent. And also like Chael, he's always got another fight in the pipeline. If he beats Poirier, there's Swanson, if he beats Swanson there's Aldo or Mendes. If he loses to Poirier they can always revisit that Cole Miller fight. There's just so many options with a Sonnen/McGregor type fighter.

[jimufctna24]

My mistake

 

I mistook the Miller fight for the Nate one. 

 

I do not recall the Okami fight being anything special. When I say "was not a thriller" I do not mean it was utter crap. I found it modest if memory serves correct.

[lambyUK]

Yep, the Marquardt fight was great I recall. Chael came into that fight the underdog (same with Okami) and absolutely battered Nate. Chael didn't end the fight unscathed either. No need to go into details as it's already mentioned above, but Chael's face was pretty cut up despite the beating he gave.

[Supremo]

 

Conor and Dustin bump into each other at the hotel. If you hate Conor you'll probably hate him even more. If you love Conor you'll probably love him even more.

 

Either way I can't wait.

[lambyUK]

"He's new to this game...he'll learn!"

 

Again, going back to yesterday's debate, what exactly does Poirier want Mcgregor to learn? To conform to the normality? Who knows, but this is going to be great and I'm getting the beers in to stay up all night.

 

It's going to be a long day too with the merseyside derby starting early in the day.

[Supremo]

Poirier wants McGregor to learn to be super respectful and boring like everyone else, He wants him to become another faceless journey man who bows, never says anything negative about his opponent or positive about himself, and always cuts the same post-fight interview saying he doesn't want to call anyone out, will fight anyone they put in front of him, and will let his hands do the talking.

 

You know, the type of chump who earns almost nothing and somehow lasts years and years on the roster without anyone bar hardcore fans even knowing who they are. Bore off.

 

It blows my mind that fighters can watch Conor's meteoric rise, see him hanging with Dana and Lorenzo in presidential suites, featured in documentaries, fast tracked up the card, getting paid the big bucks etc, and rather than be inspired to similarly make themselves a star, they just get angry that he's, "being a clown," or, "not acting like a true martial artist."

 

I know which path I'd prefer to take. And of the two types I know which one I think needs to, "learn," something.

[wandshogun09]

Poirier wants McGregor to learn to be super respectful and boring like everyone else, He wants him to become another faceless journey man who bows, never says anything negative about his opponent or positive about himself, and always cuts the same post-fight interview saying he doesn't want to call anyone out, will fight anyone they put in front of him, and will let his hands do the talking.

Luke Thomas quote on this;

 

"If I hear one more guy say 'I'll fight whoever the UFC puts in front of me', if you say that, you're just begging to be forgotten. Please audience forget about everything I've just done, please. If you get a chance to work the microphone and your answer is 'whoever', then that's who you become. You just become 'whoever'.

 

So when you get on the microphone, and they ask you - Jon Anik or Florian or Brian Stann or Joe Rogan - ask you who you want to fight next, and your answer is 'whoever', that is who you become. You become 'whoever'. Just, 'who's that on the roster?' 'oh whoever'. That's where your name is on the list. Whoever."

And a quote on McGregor and the above as well;

 

"Conor McGregor is his own guy, there's no doubt about it. And I'm sure that that's an authentic Conor McGregor that you get. But it's also a showman Conor McGregor, and where one begins and ends is kind of hard to decipher. I'm not accusing him of inauthenticity, I think it's all real, but it's all real and partly a bit of him showing an extreme version of himself. Again, I don't think it's an act exactly, I just think he brings something out of himself.

 

For me, I don't think we can expect people to do what Conor McGregor can do. Otherwise everyone would be doing it, but what they can do is more than what you're getting. Guys going 'I'm just gonna let my fists do the talking'. Dude, I hope you are ready to wait in line. It means doing more media. It means giving more of yourself, both to interviews and to UFC management. It means taking opportunities when they're given to you - 'who do you wanna face next?' - and finding a way to do that. Or it means trash talking. Maybe being funny. Maybe being clever. Forrest Griffin didn't really badmouth any of his opponents but he still found a way to stand out. And again, not everyone can be funny but I'm just pointing out that there are ways in which you can give more of yourself to the fight game that makes you much more interesting.

 

If you're going to be guarded about it, that's fine, you don't have to have to do anything. Just don't talk s**t about Conor McGregor getting opportunities. 'Well he's unproven'. So what, dude? People love him. You'd be a moron not to book him in major fights or have him headline a card in Ireland. You'd be an idiot. It's a no-brainer because the demand for him is strong, he has created it. So it's fine if you don't want to do those things. Just don't be bitter at the dude who did."

He's spot on on both points for me.

[Carbomb]

But, what is there for fans to sink their teeth into, what does he offer technically that Aldo, Dillashaw or others do not.  There is no feud or aura to Mouse which interests the masses. Mouse also does not appeal to a certain audience. McGregor appeals to the Irish, Rousey has her own appeal due to her gender. Which section of the audience is Mouse special to?

It's a good point, but couldn't one make the point, conversely, that Aldo and Dillashaw don't offer anything that Mouse does either?

[pryko]

Well after the comment about McGregor, I was expecting abit more from that video.  He hardly did much did he.  What did he say "Prepare to fall"?  Not much to it really.

 

I've not stayed up for a live PPV or event for over 6 months now, but this one...this one is getting the treatment (as logn as Bolton don't bore me to sleep earlier in the day)

 

Dominick Cruz on the Prelims.  Cowboy and McGregor on the PPV.  This is a card I can stay up for and watch.

[Noah Southworth]

If a fighter says he prefers to let his hands do the talking and doesn't want to call someone out, to me, that says he lacks confidence in his abilities and tells me he's a fighter not to care about because he's shown he doesn't care and doesn't want take any risk by calling someone out. Hell, if you draw a blank on who to call out, just say you want to fight the guy whose between you and the title. Or just go ahead and call out the champion. Make it seem like you care or I'm not going to care about you.