Paid Members Dead Mike Posted September 24, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 He could potentially go in there and do the business anyway though. With "silly shit". The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. You can talk shit and still be a great fighter. Muhammad Ali for one. Â I don't disagree. Ebb simply asked me what my preference was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted September 24, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 It's this type of thing that always bothers me when we discuss this stuff. You and David always do it. Moving the goalposts. Either you care about this stuff, or you don't. I don't care either way. But you can't describe people like Aldo as, "successful," and use him as proof that pure sports draws fans   Bollocks, I’ve not moved any goalposts. You’re defining success as drawing fans. I’m defining success as being the champion & winning fights. The difference between sport & entertainment. That’s where you’re getting confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted September 24, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 wand - I'm not saying UFC have adopted this system, as much as that the nature of people and of combat sports fans has made said system necessary. I personally like McGregor, but I also agree with Mike's sentiments that it can get a bit tiresome when people seem to need a load of jaw-jacking to make something interesting, rather than appreciate the abilities of people who've reached a peak that not even a ten-millionth of the population will ever reach. I include myself in amongst the magpies; I would like to be the kind of person who appreciates pure sports, but unfortunately, half the time I need that bit of performance. Bloody me. Â Anyway, to betting: I think I might put some cash down too. Need to get over being Overeemed at some point and give it a punt. Though I should warn all of you that my luck is such that, the moment I commit to something, the cosmos decides "Oho, right, opposite then". I'm following Mike's recommendations, so you might want to do the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Dead Mike Posted September 24, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 I'm following Mike's recommendations, so you might want to do the opposite. Â Ha! Don't take my tips, I rarely win anything (unless of course you win BIG then I want my cut) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted September 24, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted September 24, 2014  It's this type of thing that always bothers me when we discuss this stuff. You and David always do it. Moving the goalposts. Either you care about this stuff, or you don't. I don't care either way. But you can't describe people like Aldo as, "successful," and use him as proof that pure sports draws fans  Bollocks, I’ve not moved any goalposts. You’re defining success as drawing fans. I’m defining success as being the champion & winning fights. The difference between sport & entertainment. That’s where you’re getting confused. That's not true at all.  Wand said, "Basically, human beings are magpies attracted to shiny things, and guys like Conor are able to polish things up real good."  To which you responded, "I'd accept that if it were absolutely the case. The success of GSP, Anderson, Couture, Aldo, Valesquez et al however suggests otherwise."  You were directly discussing what people are attracted to. What draws. You said the success of those guys you listed proved the opposite to Wand's point. Nobody was discussing what makes a good champion. Or how to win fights. Everyone, including yourself, was talking about spectacle and how whether people like or not, it's what attracts the masses. How would Aldo's ability to win fights or be a good champion have any relevance whatsoever to either the discussion, or wand's point that you were directly replying to?  EDIT: The reason this moving of the goalposts bothers me is because, of the names you've listed, there's a good discussion to be had. GSP and Silva prove that trash talk isn't required to draw? Rubbish! After all, Silva was practically a nobody at the box office until Chael, and although it's delivered in a calm french accent to hide the fact, GSP is one of the fakest trash talkers in the game! His biggest fights have always been when he's talked about wanting to destroy his opponents. Look at that Diaz number! The only negative is that Georges comes out and admits it after his fights like a goof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted September 24, 2014 Author Paid Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 wand - I'm not saying UFC have adopted this system, as much as that the nature of people and of combat sports fans has made said system necessary. I personally like McGregor, but I also agree with Mike's sentiments that it can get a bit tiresome when people seem to need a load of jaw-jacking to make something interesting, rather than appreciate the abilities of people who've reached a peak that not even a ten-millionth of the population will ever reach. I include myself in amongst the magpies; I would like to be the kind of person who appreciates pure sports, but unfortunately, half the time I need that bit of performance. Bloody me. Got you. I just think a bit of variety is the best thing for the sport. If you like the quiet, all-business fighters there's plenty of them. If you like the brash, over the top characters there's a few of them as well. But if it was a sport made up entirely of the all-business types, it'd be so lifeless and robotic. You could still enjoy the technique in the fights but it'd be basically badminton with punches and armbars if everyone just 'let their fighting do the talking'. A balance of everything is the best. Â And when people talk about this, a case in point would be the GSP vs Diaz title fight last year. Diaz didn't deserve it but despite a vocal minority moaning about it online, that PPV was a massive success. And it wasn't like it had a great undercard (Hendricks vs Condit aside). Even if you don't care about the PPV numbers, it's hard proof that Georges St Pierre vs Nick Diaz was a fight people wanted to see. Because about a million of them bought the thing. The UFC just caters to the demand of fans. If fans want to see a certain fight, they'll go all-out to book it because everyone wins. The fans get what they want and in turn they order the PPV and the UFC make money, and the fighters get a bigger payday. Supply and demand. Â One last point on McGregor. When people say he's faking it or putting on an act, it could also be that he's just a naturally bigger personality, no? Take any fifteen people off the street and you'll get one or two who are louder or more in your face. Then you'll get your laid back types, your shy types, your out and out cunts etc. I think people read too much into McGregor as far as that goes. I honestly don't think he gives it that much thought. He came in and was himself, a lot of fans liked it, some hated it and media picked up that either way people react to him so they ran with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted September 24, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 Good point Wand. Â Genuinely, if you were to put McGregor next to GSP and ask me which of the two is the fakest trash talker, the answer would be Georges. Conor talks endless shit, but the very fact that it never stops and he always seems to be like that suggests it's not something he's doing on purpose. That's just him. GSP on the other hand is clear as day in how he builds up fights. He says as much after the majority of them. He didn't really hate Serra, Koscheck or Diaz. But he sure as hell pretended like he did. And then collected his cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted September 24, 2014 Author Paid Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 In the words of Nick Diaz... Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted September 24, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 On your recent mention of giving into temptation and reading Sherdog comments Wand; last night after Wanderlei got that lifetime ban I accidentally found myself reading Facebook comments about it. Fucking hell. It's mental how thick some fans are. At least 50% were just chatting shit about what a conspiracy it was, and how Dana was to blame for everything. Â It made me truly appreciate the discussion we can have on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d-d-d-dAz Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 For what it's worth, I think McGregor is a prick and I want to see him get his head kicked in. Â I think he's an arrogant, brash, over-cocky cunt but ultimately I'm a part of why this process works; I still want to watch the fight, I'll just be on Team Poirer. Â My point was never that it ruins the sport or whatever, my point was that I want to see him get his head removed from his shoulders. Â I prefer the quiet, respectful martial artists. But that's not to discount the worth of gobshites, necessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Southworth Posted September 24, 2014 Share Posted September 24, 2014 On your recent mention of giving into temptation and reading Sherdog comments Wand; last night after Wanderlei got that lifetime ban I accidentally found myself reading Facebook comments about it. Fucking hell. It's mental how thick some fans are. At least 50% were just chatting shit about what a conspiracy it was, and how Dana was to blame for everything. Â It made me truly appreciate the discussion we can have on here. I've mentioned it before, but it's almost remarkable that the MMA-centric sites, who you think would attract a larger percentage of fans who understand the business, instead seem to attract a majority of fans who don't have a clue, and who seem to have not realized that it's 2014, not 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Carbomb Posted September 24, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 Wand said, "Basically, human beings are magpies attracted to shiny things, and guys like Conor are able to polish things up real good." Â Hey, I said that! Â Â Â I'm following Mike's recommendations, so you might want to do the opposite. Â Ha! Don't take my tips, I rarely win anything (unless of course you win BIG then I want my cut) Â Then you should do the opposite of what you have now predicted. Then you shall win big, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted September 24, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 i goto the Sherdog boards and basically browse the topic titles, there's some good news and links posted but outside of the opening post of a topic its a 'no go zone', retard central. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Supremo Posted September 24, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted September 24, 2014 Author Paid Members Share Posted September 24, 2014 Ha, I haven't even watched it yet and I can already tell by the thumbnail it's going to be good. Eddie Alvarez putting the Rocky statue in a rear naked choke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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