R.I.P. UFC 177

[Dzeko10]

Just watched the Countdown show, I really hope Barao wins this, I just find TJ really unlikeable.

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

I think the cancellation of UFC 176 will help 177 slightly. Just because from the hardcore group of fans that watch everything, the ones with less disposable income will have a bit extra in their pocket after not ordering Aldo vs. Mendes II. If certain fans are just craving a UFC PPV and title fight, they might be more willing to part with cash given the length of time since UFC 175. I think Barao vs. Dillashaw is a very good fight, but not the type of fight to bring in a ton of viewers. However, it carries a certain intrigue from the hardcores, and is definitely better than having Mighty Mouse headline a PPV.

 

Time + hardcore intrigues= buyrates over 100,000. Just barely though.

[wandshogun09]

I really don't think it cracks 100K.

 

174 did less than 100K didn't it? And even as weak as that card was, it wasn't this bad. They had the Rory vs Woodley co-main event which people thought had possible title implications going in. That's a quality fight. It had Arlovski's UFC return after six years away. Yeah it turned out shit but that's a fight that added a bit of something to the overall card, maybe even added a few buys from the older school fans who remembered Andrei from his UFC days. It had a title fight in Mouse vs Bagautinov. A weak headliner but combined with the other two fights I mentioned, as an overall package it's got more than 177. Although Dillashaw vs Barao is a better stand-alone fight than any of that.

 

It was weak as fuck, no doubt. But this is literally a one fight show. That one fight is a good one but why would Dillashaw vs Barao suddenly draw? People say 'well it's an interesting rematch', fair enough it is. But it's also a rematch of one of the most one-sided title fights in UFC history. To the average fan there's no reason to expect Barao to do any better this time. And not only that, it's coming three months after we just saw Dillashaw batter him.

 

Castillo vs Ferguson and Correia vs Baszler hold some interest for me and I can see them being good fights, especially Castillo vs Ferguson. But them getting such high placement on the card just feels really weak.

 

I just think the UFC got stuck in a spot here, where they'd already had to cancel 176. They knew 177 was going to bomb anyway so they don't want to stick anything too good on there because, chances are, no-one will see it because hardly anyone's going to order it. They've basically quarantined all the weak fights into one card, and they know they're going to have to just take the hit on this one. Even with the low payouts, they'll probably be lucky to break even on this.

 

Even the little break as Shane O mentions, I don't think that will make much difference. It's not like UFC fans watched UFC 175 then have had to wait since then with no UFC to watch. If that was the case and fans were starved for it for nearly two months then maybe this PPV would do better. But between UFC 175 and 177 we've had the Cerrone vs Miller, McGregor vs Brandao, Lawler vs Brown, Bader vs OSP, Bisping vs Le and Bendo vs RDA Fight Nights on free TV or Fight Pass. And almost all those cards were more appealing than 177.

 

And between now and UFC 178 (which looks fucking awesome even with a poor headliner) we've got the Jacare vs Mousasi, Arlovski vs Bigfoot and Hunt vs Nelson Fight Nights. For PPV buyers, it's just so easy to skip 177 and still get your fill of UFC, and just save your money for 178. It's never been easier to just skip a PPV with all the free quality fights now.

 

Ebb brings up an interesting point though. If it's the main event that draws, then you'd think Dillashaw vs Barao 2 would do slightly better than Johnson vs Bagautinov did. But I think UFC fans have been conditioned for so long to look at the whole card when deciding whether it's worth paying for. Dana himself used to use that one all the time, that boxing offered up shows that were all about the main event and had shitty undercards but the UFC gave you quality top to bottom. They've moved away from that a bit now though and boxing are starting to load their undercards up more. If 177 does do better than 174, maybe that's an indication that UFC fans are starting to see UFC PPVs as more 'one fight' shows, like boxing, and putting more weight on the main event when it comes to coughing up for PPVs.

[wandshogun09]

Embedded: Dillashaw vs Barao - Ep 1;

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=R6MMKq4yMeg

 

Both look in great shape. Barao looks fired up. I hope he wins this. Then there's the possibility of the rubber match (hopefully they wouldn't rush straight into that though) and maybe finally get that fight with Cruz on.

[Chunk]

Just watched the Countdown show, I really hope Barao wins this, I just find TJ really unlikeable.

 

No way! Having watched the two episodes of Embedded that they've put out, I'm completely behind him. He just comes over as a kid who's somehow found himself with the title belt and wakes up every morning pinching himself.

[Guy Bifkin]

I really want Barao to win this. Even more so after watching these Embedded videos so far, with him crawling backwards up steps in the mean backstreets of Rio while TJ is in his fucking oxygen tent. I like to think Barao took the first fight lightly, but such was the dominance of TJ in the last fight I think he'll take the decision here. Hope I'm wrong!

[Egg Shen]

i still find it weird that the UFC aren't promoting Henry Cujedo's debut more than they are.

 

Why not add him to the PPV, chuck him on the poster, have him feature in the promo spots? 'also featuring the debut of Olympic Gold Medallist...' surely that generates interest? the UFC love to talk about fighters credentials and Cujedo is arguably the best wrestler to ever have entered to the octagon. I dunno if it's a bit of a test run for Cujedo due to a few problems he's had in Legacy FC, or if they are letting his get the jitters out of the way? but if that's the case they've given him a tough fight to prove himself.

 

I know they can promote him for the TV portion of the prelims but on a card as weak as it is im fairly certain Cujedo would add some intrigue to the PPV.

[Noah Southworth]

I'd be leery of pushing Cujedo because of his issues. Even if he did add some intrigue, he's not adding any numbers, so why spend time hyping someone who has a decent chance of missing weight. Plus, he's untested against serious competition. Scott Jorgensen isn't winning a title but if you can't beat him, neither are you.

[Dzeko10]

 

Just watched the Countdown show, I really hope Barao wins this, I just find TJ really unlikeable.

 

No way! Having watched the two episodes of Embedded that they've put out, I'm completely behind him. He just comes over as a kid who's somehow found himself with the title belt and wakes up every morning pinching himself.

 

 

I'm not sure he seems really cocky, if you see in the second episode of embedded him and Joe Benavidez are laughing and joking over how Barao is training and preparing for TJ.

 

Although in episode 2 of embedded I was surprised to see Faber there while its so Bang-TJ orientated. Does anyone think any of the Team Alpha Male guys will jump to Bangs new gym when its up and running?

[Egg Shen]

I'd be leery of pushing Cujedo because of his issues. Even if he did add some intrigue, he's not adding any numbers, so why spend time hyping someone who has a decent chance of missing weight. Plus, he's untested against serious competition. Scott Jorgensen isn't winning a title but if you can't beat him, neither are you.

promoting an Olympic Gold Medal wrestler doesn't add numbers? it has too!

 

Boxing events are built around the debuts of Olympic medalists turning pro.

[Noah Southworth]

Just being an Olympian isn't enough to move the needle; if it was. Rousey vs. McMann would have done far better than it did. And that was with two Olympians, undefeated in MMA, fighting for a title in the main event. If that isn't doing much, why would a relative unknown outside of the diehards mean much if any better?

 

Boxing has the advantage of being a more widely accepted and respected sport. MMA is still something of a niche sport that has limits in both business and perception. Jump ahead, say, 30 years and if MMA has grown to be widely accepted and respected, it might be a different story.

[Egg Shen]

MMA regularly out-draws boxing in America these days...and promoting the debut of an Gold Medallist over the debut of a guy like Damon Jackson has to be better for sales? 

 

Cujedo mentioned himself in a recent interview that he's bringing a fanbase with him into MMA, surely these people will want to watch him fight? I've read Kurt Angle's book recently and whilst Angle was probably on a different level because he was a heavyweight he talks about being treated like a god in his hometown after the Olympic victory, Cujedo to some degree must have had that same level of adoration. The WWE was after Cujedo at one point as well.

 

If i was marketing this shit i'd promote fuck out the debut.

[Dead Mike]

Even if promoting Cujedo's debut wouldn't create any extra revenue at least it'd be something for them to talk about on this card apart from the main event. Like Wand said, when Rogan & Dana do their hard sell at the end of the prelims I've a feeling it's gonna be a shorter segment than we're used to.

[Noah Southworth]

When it comes to rank and file shows, UFC outdraws boxing, but when it comes to mainstream respect and acceptance. and the promotional push that comes with it, Boxing is still well ahead of MMA. 

 

I'm sure Cejudo has his wrestling fanbase but there's no guarantee they're going to follow him to MMA. And even if they do, there's nothing to suggest they are in any kind of numbers that would move the needle. One can presume they would but that's not really evidence, just a presumption.

 

Sure, Kurt was treated like a god in his hometown. But it wasn't long before he had to go cap in hand to the WWF and accept a deal far lower than the he originally received because the job offers had dried up and there was nowhere else for him to really go.

 

If I was in the promotional arm of the UFC, I would probably promote Cejudo as well and hope for the best. But I'd be realistic enough to accept that there is no guarantee or assurance that it would mean anything. An Olympian going into MMA is a curiosity, but that's the kind of thing that moves TV numbers, not PPV buys, unless there is some kind of hook or story that pushes them over the edge, and Cejudo doesn't have that.

[wandshogun09]

This is really good;

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=ngNTdB_YXwg

 

Dan Hardy and John Gooden break down UFC 177. Really interesting stuff here. It's mainly Dillashaw vs Barao analysis but they touch on Castillo vs Ferguson and Nijem vs Ferreira. It's going to be a regular thing as well I think, because they mention doing it for 178 at the end.