R.I.P. UFC 177

[wandshogun09]

Ivan Raupp, a reporter for Globo in Brazil tweeted this;

 

Renan Barao didn't hit his head. He passed out, was helped by his team and only recovered consciousness in the hospital.

 

Just to clarify: Renan Barao's camp told me here at the hotel in Sacramento that he actually didn't hit his head when he passed out.

Think about that. He passed out at the arena and didn't wake up until he was in the hospital. Depending on how far away the hospital was/how long it took the ambulance to arrive etc, I wonder how long Barao was actually unconscious for. He could've been out 20-30 minutes for all we know. That's fucked up. This could've been tragic.

 

And here's a Dillashaw quote;

 

"Barão is in the past for me. I already defeated him once, he couldn't make weight the second time. He already had his chance and now he is way behind me.

 

I found out 2 hours before the weigh ins that Barão wasn't being able to make weight and had to go to the hospital. I've been preparing myself to face him for a long time. I defeated him, and he had the right to have his rematch despite the fact that I didn't agree with it. But I prepared myself to fight him.

 

It's a very crazy situation. Barão is definitely too big for this division. I think he cuts way too much weight, and that's not healthy for his system. I believe this issue has been affecting him for a while, and it's affecting him now as well. Lets see how he comes back from this one."

[jimufctna24]

 

Man, this thread is depressing. Here's Bethe Correia's arse to lighten the mood;

 

 

[weevil]

There is a very simple solution, which is that you weigh in at Octagon-side before stepping in for the fight. Switch to that and I guarantee that within three months, excessive weight cutting would be naturally eliminated.

 

Obviously there is the slight issue that the reason it would be eliminated is you'd have one guy miss weight and force the cancellation of a main event live on PPV, and another guy die in a fight after going in totally dehydrated, after which people would get the message. But if you were happy to accept that as a sacrifice worth making...

Why would they go in dehydrated? there's no point in cutting weight if you cant put the weight back on for the fight. Also you dont need to cancel the fight if someone is over the limit. You could have a system where for every pound over you're fined 5% of your pay. If you're 5 pounds or more over, then you're suspended (after the fight) for one month per pound over.

[Supremo]

It's a great idea to weigh guys at the Octagon and fine them for every pound over, rather then cancel the fight, but that doesn't take into account the fact that everyone is fighting about fifteen to thirty pounds under their natural weight at the moment, including the champions. To implement this type of system you'd have to give all the weight classes a complete overhaul. Welterweights would now be Middleweights, Middleweights would be Light Heavyweights, so on and so forth. Hendricks is now the 185 champion. Weidman is the 205 champion, etc.

 

It just seems like a huge amount of work. Far more than I can ever imagine them putting in. Unless someone dies, of course.

[Dai]

You'd be going into territory where UFC would potentially have to suspend a big star for months and months, which isnt going to happen. The business side would always come before a weight cut solution.

 

That solution also favours the 'stars'. as well. They wouldnt give a shit about being fined 50% of their official pay, as Im sure they earn 10 times as much through other means. Suspending them would not appeal to the UFC, and even being suspended for 4 or 5 months is something the big stars wouldnt even care about.

 

 

Anyway, isnt there enough evidence out there to say that extreme weight cuts are not beneficial to a fighter? I just watched Rumble Johnson vs Koscheck, and apart from it being a complete clusterfuck of a fight, the issue of Rumble's weight cut it brought up when Kos handily finishes him on the ground. Theres a million examples of weight cuts screwing up a fighter, yet people must still think the positives outweigh the negatives.

[weevil]

You'd be going into territory where UFC would potentially have to suspend a big star for months and months, which isnt going to happen. The business side would always come before a weight cut solution.

 

That solution also favours the 'stars'. as well. They wouldnt give a shit about being fined 50% of their official pay, as Im sure they earn 10 times as much through other means. Suspending them would not appeal to the UFC, and even being suspended for 4 or 5 months is something the big stars wouldnt even care about.

As supremo points out, you'd have to adjust the divisions, obviously Johnny Hendricks isn't going to weigh 170, but if he knows in advance that the welterweight limit is 190 i'm sure he could make it without problems.

 

Regarding the stars advantage, maybe you could take the percentage out of their ppv points as well. I think part of the problem is that weight cutting is an acceptable part of the sport. Fighters are completely open about it. Commentaters discuss the pros and cons of each guys cutting strategy. But with cageside weigh-ins it would be clear that if you're deliberately coming in overweight, you are cheating, and everyone can see it.

 

And is 10 pounds advantage really worth losing 50% of your pay, being suspended for ten months (losing out on another big pay day) and damaging your reputation? With drug cheats people assume that they're gaining this advantage all the time, but only occasionally getting caught and punished. Fighters trying to take advantage of the weigh ins would be getting caught at every fight.

[bono]

For all the talk before hand what a great event ufc 177 turned out to be,some cracking fights and alot of finishes.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah, it turned out to be a cracking show. Really, the criticism the card got going in wasn't so much about the fights being bad or they wouldn't possibly turn out to be enjoyable. It was always mostly that it was a terrible offering for a PPV, which are supposed to be the biggest shows the company puts on. If this was a Fight Night I doubt it'd have got a fraction of the criticism. A title fight, Castillo-Ferguson, Correia-Baszler - that's perfectly fine for a FOX show. It wasn't the card itself, it was just really weak looking for PPV. For anyone to argue against that would be ludicrous.

 

Really fun show though. My expectations weren't high and I was on a real downer with the Barao pull-out, but it really delivered. Exciting fights, lots of finishes and results mostly going how I wanted. A win all round really.

 

Dillashaw vs Soto was an excellent fight, especially given the circumstances. It was clearly Dillashaw all the way but Soto was game and competitive enough that it kept the fight entertaining. I was really impressed with Soto on the whole. I'd only seen the Joe Warren fight of his before this, which he lost. I knew he was good but I wasn't sure he was ready for this. But he fought well enough that I could see him working his way back into contention in time.

 

Shame how it ended for him though. Especially when you factor in that his mom just died a couple of months ago and he's just had a kid, would've been a nice story to see him pull off the upset. But Dillashaw keeping the gold is probably better for the division overall. Sounds like Dillashaw vs Assuncao 2 next, a good fight but not one I'm giddy about. Then there's possible fights with Faber, Cruz and maybe Barao (although I'd much rather see him go to 145 now, but I doubt it happens). If Cruz comes back anywhere close to his old self then I really want to see Dillashaw vs Cruz. TJ's footwork and movement is very Cruz-like and I'd be interested to see how Cruz would tackle that.

 

Ferguson vs Castillo was good. Ferguson is one of those fighters I can't stand but I love watching fight. I didn't have a problem with the decision. Wouldn't have been a robbery either way to me but I like that Ferguson's work from the bottom and effort to finish in all areas was rewarded. Castillo's top position should count for something but when you're on top and getting nothing done because you're either a) constantly on the defence from subs or b) you're just riding out the clock, you can't complain too much when the decision goes against you.

 

Correia vs Baszler finish was brutal. Correia clearly lacks that one shot power, or she would've put Baszler out, but fuck me she was vicious. I said before, she needed something like this. Dull decisions over Kedzie and Duke weren't going to push her to the front of the queue for a title shot. Smashing a veteran (and training partner of the champ) like this will though. Baszler looked good early and I thought her grappling might be too much for Bethe, but that assault in round two was all she wrote. I've seen people going 'Shayna had no defence, she just stood there it was awful'. I wondered what she was doing at first as well but I think that body shot just did her in. Then her defence was gone for the head shots. The body shot shut her down completely and then Bethe went to town upstairs.

 

Correia 2 - Horsewomen 0.

 

Ferreira vs Nijem was my FOTN. I like Ferreira. I don't see him staying unbeaten much longer but he's fun to watch. Awesome BJJ, wild and aggressive standup. Seems a likeable guy as well. And Nijem seems a bit of a knob to me so seeing Ferreira KO him was sweet.

 

Yancy Medeiros was impressive. That guillotine was nasty. Hamilton murdering Ruan Potts' bread basket was almost disturbing viewing. Rogan was spot on comparing it to Rocky Balboa whacking sides of beef about.

 

Really enjoyable show.

[Egg Shen]

yep the show ended up being very good, the reaction has been very weird, you seem to have the one half of the MMA community praising the show, then you have the other half saying 'it might have been good but lets not forget this thing just showcased the UFC's ongoing problem of doing too much'...i sit somewhere in the middle, but there's no denying it was a very good show fightwise.

 

* Happy to see Soto get some props, these last minute things usually end up being a letdown but he was competitive and made a bit of a name for himself Saturday night. There's something about Dillashaw i don't like, i cant put my finger on it but im finding myself rooting against him. Now Barao is out, Dillashaw/Assucao makes more sense than ever surely.

 

* Thought Yancy Medeiros looked great in the opener, brutal choke and some Diaz-inspired standup. Sometimes it can take a few fighters to click for me and actually do something that makes thing 'i need to see his next fight' Medeiros did that.

 

* Bethe Correira's win was what the female division needed. The UFC were going from running out of options for Ronda to having a few very appealing ones.

 

* Ramsey Nijem is just brittle, that guy has one of the worst chins in MMA, he's never in a dull fight but any shot he takes to the mush seems to wobble him, its worrying. Ferreira did the same for me that Medeiros did, he stamped his name in my memory.

 

* Castillo/Ferguson ended feeling like a big-deal too, probably given the crowd reaction it did genuinely feel like a co-main. So glad Ferguson got the nod though, i will usually favour the top guy if he's doing anything but Castillo did literally spending most of his time on top just clinging on, Ferguson was the guy trying to make something happen. I think 29-28 Ferguson was the fair call.

 

* Anyone see Larkin/Bruson? i missed it but fucking hell what happened to Lorenz Larkin? he was probably the most exciting prospect in the sport at one point, after i read he lost i was kind of hoping Larkin would go back to 205 because that's where he was exciting and seemed to hold speed advantages over everyone, but he's talking of going to 170! Not sure if the UFC will cut him loose yet though.

[Noah Southworth]

Chris Wade (155.5lbs, 7-1) vs. Cain Carrizosa (155.5lbs, 6-0) started the night off in short and explosive fashion with a Wade hiptossing Carrizosa to the mat, getting side control, and keeping control of Carrizosa before manoeuvring into a nasty looking guillotine choke and Carrizosa passed out before he could tap out. An impressive UFC debut from Chris Wade, though it was all ground control so we don’t yet have a gauge on his striking.

 

Minor niggle but if the guy passes out, it really should be called as a win via technical submission rather than tap out

 

Ruan Potts (248lbs, 8-2) vs. Anthony Hamilton (255lbs, 12-3)  was a very poor fight but a lot of that may be have been because Potts was violently taken down by Hamilton almost right away and landed on his head. Once that happened, Potts looked, quite frankly, terrible, and it was very much Hamilton just doing whatever he wanted. Potts would often stay on the ground and want Hamilton to come to him, which didn’t happen, so that didn’t help the quality of the fight. Hamilton got the win via stoppage after brutalizing the ribs of Potts with repeated punches, over and over, from the half guard position. Potts had a nasty looking series of welts on his ribs from taking so many punches.

 

Lorenz Larkin (186lbs, 14-3, 1 NC) vs. Derek Brunson (186lbs, 11-3) was a decent fight and an impressive showing from Brunson who used his wrestling to shut Larkin down for virtually the whole fight. Larkin got off some powerful kicks to the body early on but Brunson was just too dominant in his wrestling and Larkin couldn’t get anything off and Brunson takes it with 30-27 scores on all three judges’ scorecards.

 

Yancy Medeiros (156lbs, 9-2, 1 NC) vs. Damon Jackson (155lbs, 9-0) opened up the PPV and it was a good fight, dominated by Medeiros who showed some very crisp and technical striking, and some good takedown defence as well. Medeiros got the win when Jackson tried to take him down and Medeiros got a very unique looking choke that was essentially a reverse bulldog choke and may have been the first time we’ve seen that in the UFC. It would be nice to see Medeiros get someone further up the ladder although we may just as likely see him take on a winner from one of the fights elsewhere on this card.

 

Ramsey Nijem (156lbs, 10-4) vs. Diego Ferreira (155.5lbs, 10-0) had a great first round, very wild striking, and Nijem was getting the better of it until near the end when Ferreira cracked him with a punch that landed behind the ear and wobbled Nijem who did well to defend until the round ended. Almost right away in the second, Nijem got caught coming in with a punch and almost finished with a guillotine, and not long after that he got caught coming again and was dropped with a right hook and was quickly finished off with strikes. Ferreira showed a nicely diverse game in this fight and looks to have the potential to be a contender down the road.

 

Bethe Correia (135.5, 8-0) vs. Shayna Baszler (135lbs, 15-8) was a tale of two rounds. The first saw Baszler do a good job of controlling Correia on the ground. In the second, it was somewhat similar but when Correia got Baszler trapped against the cage and started unloading, Baszler had nothing; she didn’t move, duck, dodge, or show any kind of head movement. She was a standing target and eventually, John McCarthy stepped in to call it off. It was a good win for Correia to have but if she was troubled by Baszler on the ground, Ronda is going to take her apart if she can’t keep the fight standing. And the odds aren’t great she wins there, either.

 

Is there a reason beyond the obvious that female Brazilian fighters tend to look so masculine that it invites comparisons to East German female athletes of the 70s and 80s?

 

Tony Ferguson (155.5lbs, 16-3) vs. Danny Castillo (156lbs, 17-6) was a good fight but that might be a stretch. It was pretty much all Ferguson in the first round, somewhat even in the second and whilst Castillo got on top of Ferguson near the end, he didn’t do anything with it and Ferguson was staying active and being aggressive, and the third round was even until Castillo got the top position again and he was more active with it this time out but not a whole lot more and it all comes down to how the judges see the second round; will they reward Castillo for taking and maintaining top position even though he did nothing with it? Well, one does but only one and Ferguson takes it via split decision and it probably will end up being down to the second round and whether top control but doing nothing with it means more than being on the bottom but staying aggressive.

 

Danny Castillo gave a rather emotional post-fight interview and apologises to everyone, including his mother, for not finishing the fight.

 

TJ Dillashaw (135lbs, 11-2) vs. Joe Soto (135lbs, 15-2) was promoted, as much as any fight can be promoted on virtually no notice, as a Cinderella story but there was no happy ending as Soto was rocked by a head kick a few minutes into the fifth round and was out on his feet before Dillashaw finished the job with a pair of punches and got the win via knock out. Until that point, whilst Soto was able stay relatively competitive and land some nice shots here and there, Dillashaw was dominating the fight by outworking Soto with constant punches kicks and Soto couldn’t get in any real power shots. As a fight, it was OK, but it wasn’t that exciting because Soto was never able to get anything in to where you thought he might win.

 

Overall, this was a decent night of fights with some good finishes, but that doesn’t hide the fact that the line-up was nowhere near PPV quality. And that was what people were criticizing about this card, not, as Dana claimed during the prelims, the quality of the fights themselves. Nobody said the fights themselves were going to be bad, that it would be a bad night of fights. They just pointed out, rightly so, that this was a terrible card for a PPV; there was no fight on the main card, with the exception of Dillashaw vs. Barao, that you could legitimately claim was a PPV calibre fight. You could argue that a couple of the main card fights were suitable support fights, and they were, but they were not enough to make this a PPV-calibre line-up.

 

This is a problem with running so many shows; you can’t make every PPV a PPV-level card. There just aren’t enough of those types of fight to go around. And with UFC not willing to change their plan of running so often, they need to accept the fact that when you get events like 177, where there is little if anything PPV-level about the line-up, people are going to say so. They, or more likely Dana, need to stop being so defensive about it because when they react with interviews like the one he did tonight, they come off badly because they’re misrepresenting the arguments being made and everyone knows it.

[wandshogun09]

Larkin vs Brunson was decent. Larkin didn't look bad either. But Brunson just proved too strong a wrestler for Larkin.

 

Helwani tweeted that Bethe Correia was considering coming out to Ric Flair's music as a dig at the Horsewomen. Ha. I wish it happened now. Should've gone the whole hog with the robe and strut stuff.