UFC 168: Weidman vs Silva 2

[wandshogun09]

Yeah so do I. If he goes 0-2 to Weidman, it really just leaves him to take whatever fights he wants. He'll then be completely out of the title picture at 185 (how weird is that to imagine?), so there'd be nothing standing in the way of Silva vs Roy Jones. I think it can still happen if Anderson wins, but no doubt it'll be more straight forward to make that fight happen if he loses Saturday night.

 

The Rock is on Team Rousey

 

 

And look at his fucking back! You could park the Lex Express on that for fuck's sake.

[deathrey]

I love The Rock

 

I'm more excited about this show than I am about Christmas. I am even going to attempt to stay up and watch the whole thing live, I really don't want it spoiled. I will be gutted if Anderson doesn't win, I really do feel that anything could happen going in to the fight though. If Anderson doesn't win, personally I can see him retiring...

 

I was always on Team Ronda, even after TUF. As I am not under the charm of Meisha's looks, I personally don't think she came out of TUF looking very good either. Ronda came across as a little high strung and unbalanced, I didn't expect anything else from her, Meisha came a cross as a sneaky two-faced self centered bitch, I had expected a little better from her. None of that really has anything to do with their fighting ability (other than the fact that Meisha may have possibly got in to Ronda's head. but I doubt it), and Ronda takes this every time for me.

 

I'm really looking forward to Barnett vs Browne too, I'm going for Barnett for that one, he has looked great since he has been back in the UFC.

[lambyUK]

I love The Rock

 

 

I was always on Team Ronda, even after TUF. As I am not under the charm of Meisha's looks, I personally don't think she came out of TUF looking very good either. Ronda came across as a little high strung and unbalanced, I didn't expect anything else from her, Meisha came a cross as a sneaky two-faced self centered bitch, I had expected a little better from her. None of that really has anything to do with their fighting ability (other than the fact that Meisha may have possibly got in to Ronda's head. but I doubt it), and Ronda takes this every time for me.

 

Please name one scenario where she came off as two faced? The worst Tate did was play a couple of pranks that have been a staple in the TUF series. The reason why the pranks became a ridiculous thing is that Dana felt the need to put a stop to them due to Rousey becoming increasingly unstable.

[deathrey]

Most of her two-facedness was with her actual team, she didn't seem to give a flying fuck about any of them other than Juliana (who as she said herself, was her friend prre-show) and Chris. A specific example of this was her going up to Julianna's bedroom and bitching about the other team members not deserving her time or being hardworking, but never did she allude to their faces that she did not think they were hardworking enough or even admit to the fact that she gave more of her time to Chris and Julianna - it was in everyone's heads apparently.

[lambyUK]

Most of her two-facedness was with her actual team, she didn't seem to give a flying fuck about any of them other than Juliana (who as she said herself, was her friend prre-show) and Chris. A specific example of this was her going up to Julianna's bedroom and bitching about the other team members not deserving her time or being hardworking, but never did she allude to their faces that she did not think they were hardworking enough or even admit to the fact that she gave more of her time to Chris and Julianna - it was in everyone's heads apparently.

 

I don't think there's anything two faced at all about speaking to a friend about the dynamics of a group. There's nothing sneaky as you put about it whatsoever. She may have actually had two favourites in her group, but so what? I'm not really talking about the merits of Tate as a coach, but there's certainly nothing sneaky or two faced about it.

[deathrey]

When it's two friends discussing group dynamics maybe not, when it's a coach and a student as it was in this situation - there is. Meisha had a job to do, and as a coach your job is to train all the athletes you work with not just the ones you pick and choose to, and it certainly goes against your job description to talk shit about your students behind their backs which is very much what I saw this as. I work in a school and if I were to slag off students to another student, I'd be in trouble as it goes against the ethics of my job. A coach is a teacher of sorts, having favorites and actually showing favor to them in your treatment is unethical in my opinion. Friends can do what they like (though personally, I wouldn't take kindly to friends discussing me in that manor when I was not present), but this is a professional working relationship and Miesha didn't treat it that way, she was sneaky and two-faced and I stand by that. We obviously have very different standards of what we deem to be two-faced.

 

I didn't think Meisha's treatment of her fighters as a coach was very good at all. Ronda cared too much and Meisha didn't seem to care at all, she came across to me as someone who saw the opportunity as a publicity push for herself only and not what she could do to help of her fighters. I don't want to derail this thread in to TUF discussion so lets agree to disagree.

[lambyUK]

I'm sorry deathrey but both you and I have a completely different view of what two-faced means.

 

Two-faced to me is kissing someone's ass to their face and then going behind their back and slagging them off. You've already said that Miesha was accused of playing favourites from her own team so therefore there was no two-faced scenario. Poor coach perhaps, but two-faced? I just don't see it.

 

Just today, I was discussing the merits of a colleague at work about their work level to another colleague. However, at no point did I say anything to the actual person to pretend that I thought the opposite.

 

However, as you say, agree to disagree.

[deathrey]

I don't think we have a different definition Lamby, as I agree with what you have defined there, I think it's just what meets the definition.

 

The way I saw it, Meisha was accused of favoritism, denied it to her team, but then admitted it in private but not to her team - which to me is two faced.

 

I'll stop talking about this now.

[Guy Bifkin]

I

[wandshogun09]

Yeah, there's something about the idea of an Anderson Silva vs Lyoto Machida fight that I find fascinating. I think it's that, depending on what mood they were in on a given day, we could get either an incredible battle resembling something out of a Jet Li film, or the world's longest staring contest. But there's something intriguing about it. When Machida is on, he's probably the only guy I'd fancy to hang with Anderson in a pure striking match. I'd give Belfort a shot but I think Machida could give Anderson a real test.

 

Sadly, I doubt it'll ever happen. Machida actually has seemed kind of open to the idea recently. Now the clock's ticking and he's realised he just wants a UFC title, friendship or not. But Anderson's at the stage in his career where he can say no to fighting his mates and there's not a lot anyone can do about it. He's the worst for it really. He won't fight Machida, Little Nog, Feijao. Possibly won't fight Jacare, Shogun, Wanderlei or Glover Teixeira. And it's not just Brazilians either, he got very upset when Mark Munoz politely mentioned possibly challenging him for his title back in 2011, because they were former training partners. It's almost like if you've so much as exchanged Christmas cards with Anderson, you're on his 'won't fight him' list.

 

I agree though, fuck these MMA friendships. One recent casualty of this was following UFC 167. I got all giddy at the thought of a possible Robbie Lawler vs Hector Lombard fight only to be reminded that, guess what? They train together now so that fight isn't likely to happen, probably ever. Thank fuck Mark Hunt and Bigfoot put their mateyness aside or we'd have been robbed of one of the best fights of 2013.

[Carbomb]

It's always been something that mystified me. Firstly, these guys are supposed to be ultra-competitive and want to prove themselves the best in the world - so why are they not intrigued or piqued by the prospect of measuring themselves up against a friend who might or might not be as good as they are?

 

Secondly, quite frankly, I don't think it should be allowed either. It stands in the way of the UFC as both a sport and a business. Seeing as they're the promotion, they should reserve the right to fine a fighter for refusing to take a match without good reason, and if said fighter is a champion, they should reserve the right to strip the champion of that belt as well.

 

Maybe I'm being harsh, but I just think it goes against the spirit of the sport and against business sense. I'm betting wandshogun and many others would've paid to see Anderson fight Wanderlei at some point, and I bet the UFC would've wanted them to fight for just that reason.

[Dead Mike]

Secondly, quite frankly, I don't think it should be allowed either. It stands in the way of the UFC as both a sport and a business. Seeing as they're the promotion, they should reserve the right to fine a fighter for refusing to take a match without good reason, and if said fighter is a champion, they should reserve the right to strip the champion of that belt as well.

 

Strong arm tactics that'd only work with the lower tier fighters. I know it's been mentioned before but for the UFC to re-sign Silva to whatever crazy deal it was (10 fights?) then it's not just going to be about the money, I'd wager there's an element of being able to pick & choose his fights in there too. The man's financially set for life so Dana threatening to fine him isn't going to lose him any sleep.

 

I know it's a wrestling forum but some of the discussion on here about 'what's good for business' etc implies & assumes that the fighters have the pro-wrestler mentality that their sole job is to make money & entertain. Given that most of these athletes have been competing their whole lives in various competitions it's far more likely that their primary motivation is competing & winning. When fighters play the media game they're often praised & those who choose not to are said to 'not get it'. I'm confident that the fighters know exactly what 'superfights' will be money spinners & know what behaviour will generate media interest & discussion. They just don't want any part of it or simply don't care.

[Carbomb]

I know it's a wrestling forum but some of the discussion on here about 'what's good for business' etc implies & assumes that the fighters have the pro-wrestler mentality that their sole job is to make money & entertain. Given that most of these athletes have been competing their whole lives in various competitions it's far more likely that their primary motivation is competing & winning. When fighters play the media game they're often praised & those who choose not to are said to 'not get it'. I'm confident that the fighters know exactly what 'superfights' will be money spinners & know what behaviour will generate media interest & discussion. They just don't want any part of it or simply don't care.

 

Like I mentioned, I think it's bad for both the sport and the business. And whilst I agree the fighters shouldn't necessarily be expected to be business-savvy, it's the primary concern of the promotion, and given that, at its very essence, the purpose of the promotion is to undertake all the tasks and jobs that fighters have neither the resources or knowhow to do, i.e. provide an arena, contacts for opponents, promotion, broadcast, I think fighters should defer to the promotion's judgment, as without it, they have no career.

 

For me primarily, though, this constant refusal to fight your team-mates is just really unsporting. If they really want to compete and show they're the best, they shouldn't object to fighting anyone, even their mates. Is their friendship with each other so fragile that they're afraid it wouldn't survive some healthy competition held within the context of a sporting event?

[Dead Mike]

For me primarily, though, this constant refusal to fight your team-mates is just really unsporting. If they really want to compete and show they're the best, they shouldn't object to fighting anyone, even their mates. Is their friendship with each other so fragile that they're afraid it wouldn't survive some healthy competition held within the context of a sporting event?

 

How long is a piece of string? Some fighters who are friends might be able to fight & still be cool (Chael & Rashad, Machida & Munoz) some might not. Some might want the cash & do it anyway, others might put value their personal relationships above work. I don't think you can put hard & fast rules in place for situations like this tbh. At the end of the day they're just people, not fighting robots.

[wandshogun09]

I'm betting wandshogun and many others would've paid to see Anderson fight Wanderlei at some point, and I bet the UFC would've wanted them to fight for just that reason.

 

Well, as a Wandy bummer, the silver lining to that fight not happening is that Wand would've got absolutely murdered. So in that sense I'm glad it never happened. But yeah, I'd have still been excited to see it. I've said before, I want everyone to fight everyone. Within reason obviously, I'm not expecting to see a Cain vs Mighty Mouse fight or anything. But guys who are close in weight, especially the big names who have never crossed paths, I want them all to fight and I'm gutted when two big names miss each other. Like Cro Cop vs Randy and Liddell vs Hendo, both of which almost happened in 2007. But now they'll never happen.

 

Even now, there's fights that are longshots that I'm hoping somehow end up happening. If Wanderlei Silva vs Nick Diaz got signed I'd be doing Diego Sanchez 'YES' cartwheels. Shogun vs Franklin, Pettis vs Aldo, Penn vs Aldo, Condit vs Lombard. Sonnen vs Diaz! If these fights get away, and at least some will, I'll be gutted.

 

Anderson vs Wanderlei was a possibility actually in 2009. Wand announced he was dropping to middleweight and Anderson took great exception to his friend coming down to 'his division'. They started slagging each other off in interviews and there was even some talk that if Wand beat Rich Franklin in Germany, he might get fast-tracked into a fight with Anderson. Dana even mentioned the possible battle of the Silvas during the Countdown for Wand vs Franklin. Franklin ended up beating Wand, and then a couple of months later Anderson and Wand met up and talked and all was forgiven.

 

 

Old pals.

 

I know it's a wrestling forum but some of the discussion on here about 'what's good for business' etc implies & assumes that the fighters have the pro-wrestler mentality that their sole job is to make money & entertain. Given that most of these athletes have been competing their whole lives in various competitions it's far more likely that their primary motivation is competing & winning. When fighters play the media game they're often praised & those who choose not to are said to 'not get it'. I'm confident that the fighters know exactly what 'superfights' will be money spinners & know what behaviour will generate media interest & discussion. They just don't want any part of it or simply don't care.

 

I can't speak for anyone else but it's nothing to do with pro wrestling for me. Self promotion isn't exclusive to pro wrestling. Look at boxing. Floyd Mayweather makes insane amounts of money and the way he promotes himself in the media is a massive part of that. He's not the most exciting fighter bell-to-bell but he's the biggest draw in combat sports easy. Ali, Tyson and Leonard were master self promoters. Chael Sonnen was winning fights against Okami on the prelims and no-one cared, he was just another name on the card. Two years later he was raking it in off the Anderson fights, now he's getting big fights every time and getting his money laundering, TRT-ridden dick sucked by the FOX people. He changed nothing about his fighting style, he just started promoting himself more aggressively. And if you ask his accountant, they'd probably tell you it's the best career move he ever made.

 

Lesnar, St Pierre, Jones, Barnett, Mir, Ortiz, Penn, Liddell, McGregor, Bisping, Hardy, Nick Diaz, Rousey. In some ways these are/were all great self promoters. Even if some weren't necessarily trying to promote themselves the way they actually come across. It's a huge part of combat sports and it always will be. That's why they do pre-fight interviews and post-fight interviews. For fighters to promote their fight/themselves. It's really not that different from pro wrestling in that respect.

 

I don't know why anyone would have a problem with it. It spices the sport up. There are plenty of my favourite fighters who don't talk fights up. Who pro wrestling fans might say 'don't get it'. I love Frankie Edgar. He's one of my favourite fighters to watch and it's based purely on his fighting. Renan Barao, Melvin Manhoef, Eddie Alvarez. Some of my favourites. Put a mic in front of them and my eyes get heavy. So it's not a case of just bumming the guys who can talk. But without any of that, MMA would be a much less profitable business and a much more dull sport.

 

Anyway, back to the team mates thing - I agree they can't put a concrete rule in place to force guys to fight. I can see why friends might not want to fight but really, they're sparring daily in the gym anyway. If Velasquez and Cormier or Lawler and Lombard are happy to knock seven shades out of each other for free in sparring a few times a week, why not fight on TV and get paid for it. Shake hands and have a Tip Top or whatever after. I don't think Hunt and Bigfoot will be any less friendly next time they see each other. It doesn't have to ruin the friendship. It's competition. But yeah, it's down to the individuals and if they don't want to fight, there's not much you can do about it.