UFC 166: Velasquez vs Dos Santos III

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

first off, amazing show. Top to bottom one of my favorite fight cards ever. I'll add some random thoughts later on, but on the case of DC/Nelson...

 

It was probably the only muted fight on the show but it followed an absolute epic but it wasn't a stinker. You cannot fault DC with how he fought though, why would a guy stand in front of a dude who's only way of winning is by landing an overhand right? Roy Nelson needs to change up his game, the guy's right hand has been effective but whenever he's fought against someone that isn't stupid enough to stay in range of it he's lost badly, Roy doesn't even try to do anything else, it's hard to watch sometimes cause he's blowing like fuck and all he wants to do is throw a right hand. Don't get me wrong, it's fun when it lands but if it doesn't he has no hope of winning.

 

Stop fucking whinging Roy and sort yourself out, he's basically crying because DC didn't let him hit him.

 

Absolutely, while I didn't like the fight, I understand the strategy.

 

Onto the rest of the card and getting away from the negativity, I watched the rest of the prelims. I don't think I've ever seen such a great collection of Facebook fights. Amagov and Ferguson were both especially devastating, a lanky guy like El Cucuy getting good with submissions spells trouble for those mid-level lightweights.

 

Speaking of LW, gotta believe this event put the final nail in the coffin of Sots' UFC career. He had his moments in the fight but he's still a shell of the man who was streaking through the division in 2010. Australia has much better reps in 2013 in Whittaker and Hunt anyway. Oh, and Lombard. Glad Joe Silva made that guy get out of his comfort zone and drop some muscle. If a slimmed down Lombard can do that to Marquardt, he's going to be able to shut the lights out of most welterweights. Lawler vs. Lombard could be lots of fun.

 

QUOTE (Shane O' Mac Version 2 @ Oct 21 2013, 12:53) *

Cormier wasn't running away or avoiding battle, he just used a smart strategy to win. Much like Condit vs. Diaz, might not be the most exciting version of the fight possible, but it's effective.

 

 

I disagree with you Shane. DC's display was completely different. Condit was more a "pop pop pop" then run away and circle. This is what frustrated Diaz. Condit did refuse to engage. DC however at no point ran away or refuse to engage. DC outclassed Nelson in the stand up with his athleticism and combinations. If anything during these combo's he smothered Nelson, rather than keeping the distance like Condit did.

 

I just meant that both strategies were taking away their opponents' strengths in a manner that lead to a less exciting fight, not that the strategies themselves were similar.

[David]

I just meant that both strategies were taking away their opponents' strengths in a manner that lead to a less exciting fight, not that the strategies themselves were similar.

I would agree with that. Both Cormier and Condit executed near perfect gameplans.

[KingOfMetal]

fucks sake.

 

Totally forgot this was happening. All my predictions came good and I forgot to put a wager on it

[lambyUK]

I just meant that both strategies were taking away their opponents' strengths in a manner that lead to a less exciting fight, not that the strategies themselves were similar.

I would agree with that. Both Cormier and Condit executed near perfect gameplans.

 

Whilst I agree with you both, I still think at the main core of the initial debate (at least from Nelson) was the engagement side of the fight, and hence why I believe Nelson was talking crap.

 

If DC fought the same as Condit he would have had a point.

 

Whilst DC did have a gameplan, the lack of excitement was nothing to do with DC. It was more the gulf in class that resulted in the fight not being exciting. The prime example is DC's fight with Josh Barnett. DC smashed Barnett for 5 rounds and outclassed him with a great gameplan that was executed perfectly. However, because of how good Barnett is, the fight was still very good to watch.

 

Basically Nelson fucking sucks and it's solely his fault why the fight wasn't as great as some expected.

[jimufctna24]

Basically Nelson fucking sucks and it's solely his fault why the fight wasn't as great as some expected.

That may sound harsh, but I actually agree.

 

Nelson when put in there with someone of top 5-10 quality, does not look good. Also it was Cormier who landed all the best shots, and he landed some reall hard ones.

[ColinBollocks]

Nelson doesn't really suck. The fact he's able to compete in the HW division in the state he's in tells you as much. If he got into any sort of athletic shape, where he didn't gas after half a round, at the very least he wouldn't lose fights via fatness.

 

He's being a massive bell end with all this post-fight talk, though. He needs to shut up and work harder.

[jimufctna24]

Nelson doesn't really suck. The fact he's able to compete in the HW division in the state he's in tells you as much. If he got into any sort of athletic shape, where he didn't gas after half a round, at the very least he wouldn't lose fights via fatness.

Its not just his gas tank, he is pretty limited as a fighter.

 

He does have a decent ground game, but rarely uses it. He has questionable takedown defense and whilst he has power is basically a slugger he can be picked off as Stipe and Cormier proved.

 

The fact is skill wise and athletic wise, he does not cut the top 5. Cormier won every round clearly on Saturday, whilst playing Nelson's game of boxing.

[ColinBollocks]

He's not a top 5 fighter, but that doesn't mean he's the shits. As I stated, I'd be interested to see how he would do in some sort of shape where he's not gassed half a round in. In proper shape, Nelson may consider taking it to the ground and not just swing at fresh air, as he may not be busy sucking in huge volumes of air, granted that is conjecture.

 

You can't deny that conditioning plays a big part in elite MMA and Nelson is in shocking shape.

[jimufctna24]

You can't deny that conditioning plays a big part in elite MMA and Nelson is in shocking shape.

I watched the event at my parents house over the weekend, and my dear old Mum entered the room when Nelson was on, her observation. "He needs a gym regime" Its obvious he is not in good shape.

 

Sponsors will not touch him due to his sizable paunch and dopey beard, and I do not really blame them. It may appeal to the fans on the sofa in a novelty sort of way, but it is not a good image for the sport.

 

That said, he has never been much of an offensive wrestler, so he might not be able to use his top game even if he did get into shape. And yeah he is crap compared to the top 5-10 of HW MMA standard, but if you look at the fighters who sit outside the top 10, it is not unreasonable to dismiss them all as crap. Decent heavies do not come along often, for every JDS or Josh Barnett, there is at least 10 Ben Rothwell's and Shawn Jordan's.

[wandshogun09]

I think Cormier was spot on. He attacked intelligently and he took very little damage himself. He schooled Nelson. It was always a bad style match for Nelson because he's basically just a slugger. He's got a really solid grappling game which he seems to have forgotten about completely, but even if he wanted to, he wasn't going to be taking Cormier down. So in this fight, he was just left with the option of hunting for a KO with that overhand right. And Cormier beat him everywhere, and handily. You can't fault him for not maximizing Nelson's puncher's chance by just standing there and trading.

 

And Nelson has a chin of cement. He's basically granite disguised as lard. Cormier would've been mad to just recklessly hunt for the finish, because it probably won't come anyway. JDS, Miocic, Werdum, Mir etc couldn't put him away. And Cormier's had a history of breaking his hands. He probably didn't fancy smashing his fist against Roy's brick head too much.

 

I disagree that Condit avoided the fight against Diaz as well. He landed a lot of shots on Diaz. Just because Diaz waved his arms about and moaned a lot, doesn't mean Condit didn't fight, that's what Diaz does when things aren't going his way. Condit hit him with headkicks, he was throwing flying knees, elbows and punches and a load of "spinning shit" and "baby leg kicks". He was attacking. But if you want to win a striking match against Diaz, standing toe to toe is suicide. Excellent strikers like Paul Daley, Marius Zaromskis and BJ Penn found that out the hard way. Condit did it right. Landing his shots and not being there for the counters and crucially, not allowing himself to be backed up onto the fence where Diaz likes to tee off.

 

I still really want to see Diaz vs Condit 2. I think Diaz came in expecting a much different fight the first time, and I think they'd both come in wanting to prove something in a rematch.

[Egg Shen]

Remember the old myth that Joe Rogan used to pump down our throats that Nelson was deceptively fit and despite being a tubby fucker was actually in very good shape them days are gone.

 

I have no sympathy for Roy Nelson.

[ColinBollocks]

I forgot Rogan used to say that. Of course he stopped it once he saw the bloke in there with the big boys and Nelson would blow up seconds after Buffer had finished gracing us with his beguiling voice.

 

I don't think anybody has a hint sympathy for Nelson. He's come out of this fight looking like a tosser. If he wants to stop stuff like this happening then he needs to work harder.

[Egg Shen]

He's fallen into the trap of being badly out of shape and just completely falling in love with his right hand, seriously since he knocked out Brendan Schaub has Roy Nelson done anything in a fight other than try to land the right hand? It's crazy how succesful he's been with it really.

[wandshogun09]

The silly thing is, a couple of years ago Nelson was slimming down pretty well. I think the loss to Frank Mir really kicked him up the arse and around the time he fought Cro Cop, he was really starting to look much better physically. But it seems like once he starts winning a few fights he seems to get complacent and get back on the cake. He was making the right steps I think but he obviously didn't stick to it.

 

Just read this from Fighters Only;

 

"Junior Dos Santos does not remember most of the UFC 166 fight with Cain Velasquez. Afterwards he was under the impression he had been knocked out in the second round. His corner believe he fought from round two onwards "on autopilot".

 

Christ. Too tough for his own good. In some ways I find fighters like this more worrying than the so-called 'chinny' fighters who get knocked out quicker. Getting knocked out is never good but that's the body's way of dealing with the trauma. With guys like JDS, Mark Hunt, Roy Nelson and BJ Penn, while they're praised for their toughness, you wonder what toll it will take later in life. Where someone like Wanderlei Silva will take a big shot and get knocked out, a guy like JDS will eat them for 25 minutes and even when he's essentially out, he'll keep popping up and the fight doesn't get stopped because he's still appearing to be defending himself. It's fucking dangerous and pretty scary when you think about it. Arturo Gatti was known for his insane ability to absorb punishment, and he was said to have all kinds of problems towards the end of his life with alcohol and depression and stuff. It's not good.

 

Well, that was a cheery post wasn't it

[Egg Shen]

Thats not good, Junior may never be the same after Saturday night. At the post fight scrum you could tell that Dana was really concerned for Juniors health as well.

 

Horrible beating.