UFC 162: 'Silva vs Weidman'

[Caiman]

6 words - "YOU GOT KNOCKED THE F*CK OUT!"

[wandshogun09]

Tell you what could be an awesome fight in the title picture in the not too distant future? Weidman vs Jacare. Thinking about that fight style wise, they match up really well. Jacare's striking is coming on all the time, Weidman obviously wins the wrestling but Jacare has even better BJJ than Weidman. It's a really interesting fight.

 

I can't see Anderson's next fight being anything but a title rematch. If these Super fights are dead in the water, and he doesn't want to go to 205, then the last thing the UFC will want is him sticking around at Middleweight and blowing through the next potential challengers for Weidman. The rematch will do big business and he's got 10 fights left. It'll happen.

 

Yeah, I can't see past Weidman vs Silva 2. Even that looks weird doesn't it, putting Silva's name second? Dana after the show wouldn't even entertain the idea of Belfort getting the shot, the GSP and Jon Jones fights are on the backburner as well. And Dana seems in love with the rematch idea for this. No doubt it will be huge. Especially if they take it to Brazil or the New York/New Jersey area. The Superbowl weekend PPV next February is in New Jersey and Dana is already hinting at doing the rematch there. Makes sense.

 

If Anderson remains adamant that he doesn't want an immediate rematch, then I actually think this Roy Jones Jr fight is the most likely other option right now, as crazy as that seems. Dana, for the first time recently, has gotten a lot more receptive to the idea and Jones Jr is apparently still up for it.

 

Fuck knows. I think once Anderson has some time off to relax and think about everything, I think he'll want the Weidman rematch.

 

As for the talk here of Anderson's performance, Dana said something I agree with at the scrum. Anderson has done that showboating shit a bunch of times and it's those things (dodging Forrest's punches with his hands down/the shit with Bonnar) that people were calling him a genius for. If Anderson had taunted Weidman, hands on hips, did everything the same but then knocked out Weidman, we'd all be heaping praise on him for being Matrix-like, a ninja etc.

 

There's two types of fight where you see Anderson show off. 1) the fights where he seems to see no threat from the opponent - Forrest and Bonnar spring to mind. And 2) really good grapplers who he wants to avoid the ground with at all costs - Maia, Leites, Weidman. And I think it stems from his submission losses to Chonan and Takase. Until now he'd never been bettered on the feet, he had been stopped on the ground and I never saw that same confidence in him when he faced great grapplers. People point to the Maia fight but I'm not having that he carried Maia, I think he acted like a mong that night because he feared Maia's grappling and wanted to fluster him with taunts to goad him into striking. I've always said that and I stand by it. This Weidman fight, I'm convinced he was acting like that because he didn't know how to deal with Weidman's grappling and wanted to anger him into doing something reckless on the feet. This time it backfired.

 

I don't really see a lot he can do different in the rematch. Weidman will still have awesome wrestling and BJJ. And now, coming off his first ever KO loss, his confidence on the feet may be rocked as well. And Weidman's confidence will be higher. Even if Anderson comes out all serious and doesn't taunt or dance, he's still going to have the problem of Weidman's grappling and more importantly, his mixing up of grappling and striking. We now know that Weidman can take Anderson down, can control him and can KO him. That's got to effect Anderson mentally next time.

 

I could see people's point if Anderson looked like doing anything this time. People are acting like if Anderson simply didn't taunt he'd have won but what did he do to Weidman the whole fight really? He landed some kicks and jabs but never anything significant. Weidman won the grappling, kept coming forward on the feet and stopped him mid-Matrix head movement, which no-one was able to do before.

 

Basically what I'm saying is I believe Anderson acted like that because he couldn't figure Weidman out and toy with him like he has others and I think he was doing it out of frustration. Weidman deserves the credit. And I was the one saying he was overhyped going in. Anderson might well win the rematch, but it's going to take more than just not showboating to do it.

 

Fuck, I've gone on again.

[jimufctna24]

The one thing Anderson has to fall back on is that his foot work and speed is a league above Weidman's. I think his technique is better as well, but Weidman's technique cannot be sniffed out, as I said above the combo he threw was advanced for MMA and had thought to it. It was not a lucky shot, he took advantage of Anderson's clowning in a way that only a small selection of strikers at 185lbs could. Still there was a feeling that it was Anderson being too cocky, rather than being beaten on pure merit.

 

I do think Anderson had Weidman slightly miffed and not the other way round, Weidman I thought was playing into Anderson's game before the knockout, after his stellar groundwork he only attempted one takedown with not much commitment that Anderson defended.

 

I really want a rematch, so many questions to still be asked about these two head to head. I will be cheering on The Spider all the way, I get why others dislike him due to his clowning being disrespectful but I love that stuff (You can see why I am a Ali fanatic) Like Jordan Breen said showboating is a calculated risk, some get offended others do not, I could not care less personally it adds a bit of spice and style for me usually.

 

I am not ready to rank Anderson below Jones or GSP just yet, both of those two have had blips with Jones almost getting armbared by a 185lbs and GSP showed vulnerability to Condit who is nowhere near the fighter Weidman is in my opinion. I rank the three of them around the same still.

[lambyUK]

I really want a rematch, so many questions to still be asked about these two head to head. I will be cheering on The Spider all the way, I get why others dislike him due to his clowning being disrespectful but I love that stuff (You can see why I am a Ali fanatic) Like Jordan Breen said showboating is a calculated risk, some get offended others do not, I could not care less personally it adds a bit of spice and style for me usually.

 

The thing is Jim, I've got no problem with showboating myself. I mean I'm a Rashad Evans fan and I love that shit. However, you show boat when you are actually doing something. Have some offence for fuck's sake. Anderson did nothing whatsoever to warrant his show boating.

 

The difference with his showboating against Maia was that Maia was getting the living shit beat out him and Anderson then took to his antics.

 

If he landed anything decent then I would have tipped my hat to him and said it was paying off till that moment. However, it wasn't.

[jimufctna24]

I see you point Lamby, but I think there was a mind set to Anderson's showboating. I think it was done to annoy Weidman into keeping the fight standing and throw aggressively/recklessly so Anderson could counter. It backfired as Anderson went too far with it and underestimated how good Weidman's striking is.

 

I am purely speculating of course in what I think Anderson's intentions were.

[Dead Mike]

There's two types of fight where you see Anderson show off. 1) the fights where he seems to see no threat from the opponent - Forrest and Bonnar spring to mind. And 2) really good grapplers who he wants to avoid the ground with at all costs - Maia, Leites, Weidman. And I think it stems from his submission losses to Chonan and Takase. Until now he'd never been bettered on the feet, he had been stopped on the ground and I never saw that same confidence in him when he faced great grapplers. People point to the Maia fight but I'm not having that he carried Maia, I think he acted like a mong that night because he feared Maia's grappling and wanted to fluster him with taunts to goad him into striking. I've always said that and I stand by it. This Weidman fight, I'm convinced he was acting like that because he didn't know how to deal with Weidman's grappling and wanted to anger him into doing something reckless on the feet. This time it backfired.

 

Wand summed it up pretty well here, although I'd argue that he did know how to deal with Weidman's grappling as he stood up & stuffed another takedown attempt.

It's hard to comment about this without sounding like I'm taking something away from Weidman but Silva was allowing him to unload on him. Just giving him free swings in the hope to get another highlight reel counter punching clinic. As above, if Silva came out with the Sonnen/Belfort mindset, no fucking around & just business it may have played out differently & this is what I hope to find out in the rematch.

[wandshogun09]

The one thing Anderson has to fall back on is that his foot work and speed is a league above Weidman's. I think his technique is better as well

 

Definitely. Despite knocking him out, I don't for one second think Weidman would beat Anderson in a straight striking match. That sounds weird but striking is completely different when you've got takedowns to think about as well, your posture and striking defence are different than in pro boxing or kickboxing. I think Anderson would wipe the floor with him in K-1 with the freedom of not having to defend the takedowns. Too fast, slick and accurate. But Weidman did what the likes of Cain Velasquez and GSP do brilliantly. He beat a better striker because the better striker didn't know if a strike or a shot was coming next, so didn't know what to defend, and it cost him. As you say, Weidman set it up spot on.

 

Still there was a feeling that it was Anderson being too cocky, rather than being beaten on pure merit.

 

This is what I disagree with. Why would it not be on merit? Two men went into the cage, one mostly dominated the grappling exchanges in round one then knocked the other guy out in round two. If the roles were reversed no-one would question it but because it's Anderson Silva finally losing, people think it must be something else other than Weidman just did what he had to do and won the fight. I get why, Anderson was/is so good it seems alien to think he can be legitimately bettered in MMA so people naturally look for other explanations/excuses. No doubt we'll have this discussion again if Johny Hendricks beats GSP in November, or Jones ever loses. At the end of it though, it comes down to two guys in a cage, one got laid out. Weidman won on merit.

 

Weidman I thought was playing into Anderson's game before the knockout, after his stellar groundwork he only attempted one takedown with not much commitment that Anderson defended.

 

Surely that's more impressive. He got flustered and out of his game, played Anderson's game, and still won.

 

Let's remember as well, Anderson has a great chin. He'd never even been badly hurt in a fight before. Chael knocked him down but he looked more off balanced/surprised. He's taken punches off Dan Henderson and Patrick Cote who are known for their heavy handedness, Rich Franklin who is a good striker, Stephan Bonnar who was bigger - nothing. When Weidman landed he knocked him out.

 

'I really want a rematch, so many questions to still be asked about these two head to head. I will be cheering on The Spider all the way, I get why others dislike him due to his clowning being disrespectful but I love that stuff

 

I agree. I'm a big fan of Rashad, I'm a fan of Anderson, I used to love watching Naseem, Roy Jones and James Toney as well. And I love Eubank. It's all fun and usually part of the strategy and mind games. It's also a risk I get that. But I don't have a problem with it. I would hate it if Frank Mir did it though. I'm a hypocrite.

 

Wand summed it up pretty well here, although I'd argue that he did know how to deal with Weidman's grappling as he stood up & stuffed another takedown attempt.

 

That's a fair point. And I've said myself that I think Anderson has improved quite a bit in the wrestling department. You look at how he was taken down repeatedly by Sonnen the first fight. Or how Hendo held him down for a round. Then look how he shook off Sonnen in the second round in the rematch and controlled Bonnar who had a good 20-30lbs on him.

 

But it felt to me like once Weidman had that strong start with the grappling it might have spooked Anderson. He didn't want to go back there and from then on he was dancing, taunting, shouting, anything to get Weidman angry and distracted. In that early grappling part, Anderson had to be thinking 'fuck, this could be Sonnen 1 all over again'. The difference from Weidman to Sonnen though, Weidman could actually threaten Silva once he got him on the ground. Anderson felt Weidman's power in the ground strikes, Weidman was trying leg locks (which no-one's tried on him since the infamous Chonan fight) and realised this would be a rougher night than even Chael gave him the first time if he got taken down again.

 

I think Anderson was in Weidman's head with the taunts to some degree. There's stuff online that cameras apparently caught Weidman immediately after the fight, saying to his corner that Anderson was a "disrespectful piece of shit". So he was rattled by it to some degree. But I also think Weidman's grappling might have worried Anderson, especially after the way the fight started.

 

One thing I think we can all agree on is that the rematch is going to be fascinating. I can't wait to see how Anderson comes back from this.

[jimufctna24]

Still there was a feeling that it was Anderson being too cocky, rather than being beaten on pure merit.

This is what I disagree with. Why would it not be on merit? Two men went into the cage, one mostly dominated the grappling exchanges in round one then knocked the other guy out in round two. If the roles were reversed no-one would question it but because it's Anderson Silva finally losing, people think it must be something else other than Weidman just did what he had to do and won the fight. I get why, Anderson was/is so good it seems alien to think he can be legitimately bettered in MMA so people naturally look for other explanations/excuses. No doubt we'll have this discussion again if Johny Hendricks beats GSP in November, or Jones ever loses. At the end of it though, it comes down to two guys in a cage, one got laid out. Weidman won on merit.

Sorry I should have clarified, to me it is on merit, but the "feeling" I mentioned is out there with other fans. Jordan Breen almost had a nervous breakdown on Sherdog Radio with the amount of fans saying Weidman was a "average fighter" who Anderson "let win" or "did not take seriously" I had a feeling that Anderson did not fight the right fight (the clowning went too far), but I am not going to knock Weidman's skills as I said not any bog standard Middleweight could do what Weidman did on Saturday.

 

To me, I think Anderson needs to treat Weidman's skills with more respect in the cage next time, by that I mean less clowning and fighting a tighter game. Like I said above, Weidman's skills and technique are elite. If Weidman comes out next time and smashes Anderson again without Anderson clowning around, I am sure most doubts will go away.

[Bus Surfer]

Here's the one you want, Jim

 

[jimufctna24]

Thanks Silly Kisser!

[wandshogun09]

Ha, that's great. Don't want to be a party pooper but is it a bit early to have such a spoilery sig Jim?

 

Actually, where is the sensei? Haven't heard a peep out of him since Saturday. And he's usually got so much to say after Anderson's fights.

[KingOfMetal]

Just seen the fight.

My jaw nearly hit the floor, never thought I'd see the day. Hats off to Weidman, I had completely written him off. He did well to keep his head in the game and not drawn into Silva's mindgames.

Thought Anderson did a good job with defending the submission and thought he would settle into his gameplan in the 2nd round. I just can't believe its happened, and against a guy in only his 10th pro fight! Once again, congrats to Weidman, but I'm sure this isn't the last we'll have seen of Anderson

[Supremo]

Weidman calls Anderson Silva, "a disrespectful piece of shit," after knocking him out.

[wandshogun09]

Weidman calls Anderson Silva, "a disrespectful piece of shit," after knocking him out.

 

I mentioned that in one of my walls of text earlier. It's funny, Weidman was all nice at the press conference saying he never took Anderson's clowning as disrespect, just part of the strategy. He mustn't have realised the camera caught him

 

Can't say I really blame him. In the heat of a moment like that, strategy or not, it must have felt pretty fucking awesome to give a great big 'fuck you' to a guy who was taunting you and taking the piss. He probably regretted the comment once he calmed down. No doubt the UFC will be using that clip when hyping the rematch though.

[lambyUK]

Weidman calls Anderson Silva, "a disrespectful piece of shit," after knocking him out.

 

I mentioned that in one of my walls of text earlier. It's funny, Weidman was all nice at the press conference saying he never took Anderson's clowning as disrespect, just part of the strategy. He mustn't have realised the camera caught him

 

Can't say I really blame him. In the heat of a moment like that, strategy or not, it must have felt pretty fucking awesome to give a great big 'fuck you' to a guy who was taunting you and taking the piss. He probably regretted the comment once he calmed down. No doubt the UFC will be using that clip when hyping the rematch though.

 

Whilst I've yet to click on supremos vid, I thought this was known straight away? You see when Joe Silva comes into the cage looking happy as a pig in shit when shaking Weidman's hand, and then on the second occasion you see Weidman mouthing off mentioning disrespect.

 

Additionally, what the hell is the intention of that video anyway?

 

Edit..to answer my own question, perhaps this video gives some further ammo for a rematch?