Bret shoots on Triple H

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I want to lock Ian and CM Punk in a room and see what happens..

I'd say "you are a gay wrestler" and then I'd make him suck me off and take a picture like that scene in the Shield. Only I wouldn't have a gun in my hand. He'd just do it because I told him to. Then I'd post the picture on here, but only in paid. You can only imagine the stuff that goes on in there.

[Ross]

I've always thought that Hunter was a very good worker but not a great one.

[Mr Butternut Squash]

Bret's a self absorbed wanker but I agree with the general point of HHH being good rather than great. Saying that he's never had a great match is a bit of a stretch, he's at least had one - that one with Cactus and maybe the Summerslam HBK one. The thing that hurts Hunter the most for me though is that he's a boring as fuck promo, maybe one of the worst that's ever held the big belt. I've always preferred the blue blood to the Game.

[ShortOrderCook]

Nah, he is a great worker. I sort of get Brets point but he's kind of off the mark and as others have said he'd have a better point if it wasn't so exaggerated. I used to think to truly be considered a 'great' wrestler you'd have to make it on top as both a baby and a heel, i don't think that anymore though, although those that do are a notch above those that don't. One quality that certainly makes a great wrestler for me is the ability to enhance your own aura, while also enhancing that of your opponent without yours being damaged in the slightest. I probably haven't worded that very well, at least i know what i mean. Not everyone can do that, some are really good at it, those are generally the great ones. And both Bret and Triple H have achieved it in their careers.

[Ross]

I'd say Hunter has definitely had some great matches - vs. Cactus Jack at the Rumble is my all-time favourite match. He's not in Bret's league though, no way. To me Hunter was always just below that elite level of the likes of Bret, Shawn, Austin and Flair.

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

This is coming from mr 5 moves of doom?

Fuck me, you were actually in the ring for wrestling matches. You were in the business. How can you make a post like that? You can have the same moves every match, but that isn't what makes a match different. Predictability doesn't mean doing the same moves. Having a routine is essential to the storytelling process.

 

I know that, but I think you missed my point. After all... I didn't say having routine or a moveset (is that word still banned here?) was a bad thing.

 

Bret Hart criticised Triple H for being predictable and being routine, despite himself finding success using the same method. A LOT (not all) of Bret's matches were VERY similar. Hence my "5 moves" comment. He didnt just hit the same five moves... He practically hit them in the same order in a lot of matches match. I would personally say Triple H matches are more varied and that Bret Hart's comments are hypocritical.

 

It wasn't so much me saying "god Bret your so predictable" it was more me saying "it worked for you didn't it?"

 

I'm pretty sure that is what Ian thought you meant, at least that's how i took it and you're still completely wrong.

 

Ian implied that I was against set routines in matches and against wrestlers having a set of moves. Which I'm not. in fact it's important. So clearly there was some cross wires here.

 

Just so I'm clear, what do you think I'm wrong about?

[thicko]

I want to lock Ian and CM Punk in a room and see what happens..

 

Ian would have to wait until Meltzer released a newsletter on the subject before he'd know what to do.

[Lefty]

I kind of agree with him...sort of. In terms of straight in-ring gimmick-free matches I don't think Triple H can be classed as one of the greatest ever. He's often had good matches but I don't think he's had any spectacular matches that match the level of Bret Hart and HBK's work.

 

However no one can deny he's a great promo, knows how to develop and sustain a fully fleshed out character and to get angles and storylines over in a way that makes people keep watching and buy PPVs which is all that really matters anyway.

 

This for me. It's an extension of the old argument on why Hogan is, or as some believe isn't, better than say a Ric Flair or a HBK. I don't think Hunter matches up to the elite workers in-ring, but as long as there is an arse every 18 inches and people are parting with their hard earned cash to see him win or lose that's where he shall inevitably be judged in terms of greatness.

[d-d-d-dAz]

You know ShortOrderCook is on to something with the being able to elevate someone but not have it effect your own aura.

 

Triple H is a fucking master at it, too.

 

I don't just mean your Batista's either, I mean Triple H has at different times managed to make Taka, Rikishi, Billy Gunn and Shelton Benjamin (amongst others) look like megastars and genuine threats to his title. His match with Rikishi on Smackdown in 2000 is my favourite TV match of all time.

 

I'd say he was king of the TV main event.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I want to lock Ian and CM Punk in a room and see what happens..

 

Ian would have to wait until Meltzer released a newsletter on the subject before he'd know what to do.

Obviously gotten to. You're just jealous because not everyone has your poor standards.

[d-d-d-dAz]

Why do you dislike Punk so much Ian?

 

I mean aside from a misjudged attempt to turn him into a white meat babyface (around the time Nash came back) , he's pretty great isn't he?

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Same reason why people don't like Tanahashi, Hulk Hogan, Rey Mysterio, The Undertaker, Sin Cara and Sir Mo. Because its an opinion. I don't actually dislike him anyway. He's a good heel and a good talker and far more bearable than when he was doing his insider bullshit act as a face. I just find a lot of what he does goes against what I like my wrestling to be. No big deal in that.

 

That elbow drop is horrific, though.

[hitman89762000]

Surely with the huge video library the wwe now owns there's enough savage footage in there for somebody to take punk aside and go " eh lad this is how you do the macho elbow" whilst just having a loop of savage hitting it so punk learns how to do it?

[d-d-d-dAz]

Oh, absolutely not.

 

But everyone I know, certainly in real life, that's into wrestling loves him so was interested to hear a counter point. Not having a go, like.

 

I think lots of people are shit that others seem to love.

 

For example, Sheamus. I don get it.

[Mr Butternut Squash]

For me current heel Punk is the best thing that's come along in WWE for over a decade. He does have a tendency to phone it in at times though and his promos in particular can be painful to sit through when he is. I can see why some dislike him and, yeah, that elbow is atrocious.