Impact wrestling thread - It's a Don West tribute thread now!

[PowerButchi]

They've sacked their Droz!

[King Pitcos]

TNA draws at least 1.2 million a week. For them to only have 6000 people buying their pay-per-views is a shocking statistic. It scream that there is something fundamentally wrong with who is running it.

Or that the market doesn't support a second full-scale wrestling promotion when it comes to ppv and touring. Even as a TV product, it'd be a gamble to decide that a new name and a fresh lick of paint would gain more viewers than you'd lose by cutting the big names. And I can't see them (whoever the theoretical them is) being able to sell such an idea to Spike/Viacom, who have always pushed for TNA to put names on the show.

 

TNA is a TV show that plays at being a wrestling company. If they can't deliver a TV show on-budget, then it makes more sense to just shitcan it rather than go back back back back back to the start. Wrestling gets decent ratings, but they're negated a bit by loads of companies not wanting to advertise on such a tawdry product, so it needs to be cheap programming. If Friends changed its name to Pals and sacked the main six but kept Gunther and that high school kid Monica shagged, it would've been cheaper, but the network wouldn't have gone for it. There's nothing saying that a new wrestling show without the names signed to TNA would be worth giving a two hour primetime slot. And if you are keeping half the TNA lot, you'd have an even harder time convincing people that this new wrestling show is better than the old shit one in the same timeslot that vanished two months ago.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Its not about replacing like for like. Its about convincing the current audience that they wont get fucked if they invest money into them. If Spike did a huge campaign running commercials that there's a new promotion on its way to the network and got the word out, it would have a better chance at succeding that the current TNA. TNA used to be a thriving company until it got killed off by bunch of nutters who tried to make it late 90s WWF ran from a studio. Generally the wrestling audience will spend money on you if you are giving them something worth buying. Its why one month they did 10,000 buys and when they built up Angle vs Joe (in the same month of WrestleMania 24) they pulled over 60,000. The reason TNA never drew, never sold merchandise and never did over what they got was because they never created any stars. Stars drive the business. And they couldn't protect the stars they did have. They spent all their money on names and nothing on advertising them, cross promoting them or even getting the word out that they were signed. It was always "RVD's signed!!!! And now he's getting a kicking off Sting".

 

And they wouldn't technically be going back to the start. The TNA name means nothing anyway. It would still be the same company, still have significant name value, TV worthy production values. It would just owned by the network that airs it and ran by people who aren't the jokers they currently have. There will always be a place for a number two promotion. Just because TNA hasn't filled that gap, it doesn't mean there isn't a place for one.

Edited July 23, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay

[Loki]

If you were buying, you could keep the Impact name and the title heritage and just ditch the TNA bit, along with anything you didn't want to keep.

 

Anyway, the problem isn't the product. The product is fine - Impact is fine, it's still doing ok in its slot and is still entertaining. It's the attempts to expand the brand beyond just a tv show that's not worked out.

 

Someone mentioned the idea of setting up shop in a different market every couple of months - like an Impact Zone but not permanent. So, do 2 months in Orlando, 2 months in New York, 2 month in LA, 2 months in wherever. That might reduce the costs but still keep an "on the road" feel.

 

The bit I really have never quite got is how their house show circuit doesn't do well. They have, outside of WWE, the most recognisable roster, they should be able to pull a couple of thousand in each town and turn a profit.

[The King Of Swing]

The bit I really have never quite got is how their house show circuit doesn't do well. They have, outside of WWE, the most recognisable roster, they should be able to pull a couple of thousand in each town and turn a profit.

 

I may be wrong but isn't TNA's problem (well one of them anyway) that they are really awful when it comes to actually promoting house shows?

[King Pitcos]

There's definitely a place for a number two, but I'm doubtful that the market's there for them to operate on the scale that TNA is trying to. One buy rate for Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle years ago doesn't necessarily mean there's 60,000 who'd buy a second wrestling pay-per-view every month (or every four). I dont know what a cut-down promotion could do to make that many people decide to buy it instead of (or as well as) John Cena vs Daniel Bryan. WWE was very different when TNA drew that buyrate. The people who were raging against Vince then have either gone or are wanking over Seth Rollins now and not needing a big-time alternative. I think Triple H has killed TNA. Look at who TNA's audience is these days. It's Loki and Magnum. Fans who'll watch out of nostalgia and convenience but won't spend money. They're not going down Waitrose in a Frankie Kazarian top or buying VIP meet and greet tickets. If you get rid of the attitude era names, how long are those fans sticking with a Spike/Challenge wrestling product at all? And who replaces them if they go?

 

That's the thing for me. TNA isn't surviving on being the alternative anymore, it's surviving (in terms of viewers, not financially) on people seeing their old favourites. If that's not the case, and the 1.2 million watching is just the same 1.2 million who'll watch non-WWE wrestling on Thursday nights no matter what, then someone could definitely just do a wrestling show with far cheaper running costs in that timeslot. But I couldn't see buyrates improving even then.

[air_raid]

Thing that always confuses me is that they run these relatively small towns like Cape Girardeau (MO) and Ottumwa (IA). Why not just look for a similar sized (i.e. small) venue in the bigger towns in those states like Kansas City or Des Moines/Sioux City, where you've got a bigger population from which to try and attract the same number of wrestling fans? Or am I being naive and is the same size venue likely to be cheaper to rent in Badiddlyboing than a proper city?

[PowerButchi]

The bit I really have never quite got is how their house show circuit doesn't do well. They have, outside of WWE, the most recognisable roster, they should be able to pull a couple of thousand in each town and turn a profit.

 

WWE Smackdown house shows would only draw 2000-3000 a lot of the time, so TNA would have been really really really lucky to get anywhere near that. The house show market isn't the monolith it once was.

[FLips]

Anyway, the problem isn't the product. The product is fine - Impact is fine, it's still doing ok in its slot and is still entertaining. It's the attempts to expand the brand beyond just a tv show that's not worked out.

 

Joking aren't you? The product has been stale practically since the Aces & 8s angle started. It's been all downhill since then, and everything they've touched has turned to shit. They've ruined several red hot acts and killed some money angles just by existing.

 

Bully went from the top heel to the leader of a bunch of nobodies, they also gave away a Team 3D reunion just by adding him to the group.

 

Sting, Angle, and Jeff Hardy have all been going round in circles for the best part of a year too dealing with them.

 

We've had screwy non-finishes to every PPV in recent memory, and not in a shocking or good way like they might think, but in a way that just turns people off it.

 

It's not even just Aces & 8s either, they wasted our time with Gutcheck by bringing in new people, some with good potential, and then sacking them. The quality of matches is awful for the majority because their roster is so shallow. Think of how many people TNA have on their roster and then think of how many of them don't need to be there.

 

Brooke Hogan, Eric Young, ODB, Garrett Bischoff, Wes Briscoe, King Mo, Knux, Manik, Sam Shaw, So Cal Val could all be sacked and with that money they could bring in 2 or 3 middle-big names to add some variety to where it matters. Some of them won't be for obvious reasons.

 

TNA at the minute is shit television with stale storylines and a roster of about 7 people going round in circles.

[Sphinx]

I remember Meltzer saying that Triple H likes the idea of a rotating roster of names, like the territory days, which serves to keep the show fresh as well as slowly get the full-timers more exposure / popularity. Imagine a rotating roster with Lesnar/Triple H/Hogan/Sting/Hardy/Angle/Jericho/RVD/Taker etc. coming in for a few months or shows to freshen things up. Used correctly, that creates so many possible matches.

 

I was thinking how good the limited date contracts can be for WWE. Lesnar wouldn't have half the appeal if I was seeing him every week, just like seeing Taker in any capacity now is a big deal. These deals are a big nail in TNA's coffin too. Before, wrestlers could take that relaxed schedule at TNA. But why bother when WWE can offer a limited date deal like they do, you have more exposure, you're portrayed as a star and things are run better backstage? And some of your Attitude era guys are coming back, like New Age Outlaws, RVD, X Pac and Sting to name a few. What do TNA do about that?

 

There's definitely a place for a number two, but I'm doubtful that the market's there for them to operate on the scale that TNA is trying to. One buy rate for Samoa Joe vs Kurt Angle years ago doesn't necessarily mean there's 60,000 who'd buy a second wrestling pay-per-view every month (or every four). I dont know what a cut-down promotion could do to make that many people decide to buy it instead of (or as well as) John Cena vs Daniel Bryan. WWE was very different when TNA drew that buyrate. The people who were raging against Vince then have either gone or are wanking over Seth Rollins now and not needing a big-time alternative. I think Triple H has killed TNA. Look at who TNA's audience is these days. It's Loki and Magnum. Fans who'll watch out of nostalgia and convenience but won't spend money. They're not going down Waitrose in a Frankie Kazarian top or buying VIP meet and greet tickets. If you get rid of the attitude era names, how long are those fans sticking with a Spike/Challenge wrestling product at all? And who replaces them if they go?

 

That's the thing for me. TNA isn't surviving on being the alternative anymore, it's surviving (in terms of viewers, not financially) on people seeing their old favourites. If that's not the case, and the 1.2 million watching is just the same 1.2 million who'll watch non-WWE wrestling on Thursday nights no matter what, then someone could definitely just do a wrestling show with far cheaper running costs in that timeslot. But I couldn't see buyrates improving even then.

 

Completely with you there. TNA failed to create a homegrown star and that's caught up with them, as it would inevitably. But not only that, they can't even portray their actual stars as stars. Look at how WWE presented RVD. Even though I loved RVD back in '01, I didn't care for his return to WWE - until I saw their video packages and heard the commentators promoting it so much. I used the example before, but Jeff Hardy coming back on that January 4th head-to-head Impact was awful. It should have been a massive deal, but you just had Tenay going 'we told you we'd hsve big names arriving'. No enthusiasm. TNA should br making it seem a bigger deal than WWE would because they hsve to convince people this isn't just the place where the old WWF wrestlers end up.

 

Without the names, they're possibly fucked. WWE caters towards your workrate fappers, has some nostalgia acts (with soon to be more, I'm sure) and is just consistently better booking and presentation. I think TNA need to actually present themselves as an alternative. The six sided ring differentiated them. It was new to the majority of fans and was easily identifiable. I'm not saying that specifically needs to return, but you do need something. Impact looks like a worse version of Smackdown. The X Division used to be their USP but it's not any more. I don't know what they can do now. They're damaged goods.

 

The other problem is their bloody factions and faction storylines. I'm sick of them.

[FireBrand]

Is it a case then that there are not enough people like myself who actually likes seeing Sabin as champ and doesn't see the panic of TNA possibly going under?

 

I can understand folk to liking Sabin as champ because he isn't quite the same before the injouries and he is heavly ascociated with the X-Division but it's not that bad of a decision. Also wrestler wise who have they really cut that means anything Matt Morgan!? D.O.C!? By all accounts it was Prichard who didn't like Jarret not Dixie she always seemed to have a huge crush on him if I am honest.

 

The threads just turned into a doom saying orgy.

 

I do have to admit however the product onscreen has been bland for a little while but there is still enough good stuff about to tune in for this whole thing could well be a blessing in disguise.

Edited July 23, 2013 by FireBrand

[JNLister]

It's the complete lack of people even discussing Sabin as champ that says the most, not the decision itself. That said, there seems to have been a bit of confusion between "push new stars" and "put the world title on a guy who's been midcard at best in the promotion for TEN YEARS."

[IANdrewDiceClay]

^^^That man know.

 

My man Sean Waltman has been throwing his bandana and poodle hair into the discussion:

Classy move by @TNADixie on the release of Jesse Sorensen. Last time I parted ways with TNA, They sent out a statement announcing my release. Problem is, I wasn't under contract for them to release.

 

The Jesse firing is a bad one I reckon. He was doing an office job. On proper shit money. Did they really need to fire him? After he, well, broke his neck for the promotion and didn't sue as he lay there as the referee went "best count him out. I'd rather him break his neck than break kayfabe".

[FireBrand]

It's the complete lack of people even discussing Sabin as champ that says the most, not the decision itself. That said, there seems to have been a bit of confusion between "push new stars" and "put the world title on a guy who's been midcard at best in the promotion for TEN YEARS."

 

 

I think in an effort to conjure a suprise/shock TNA put the belt on Sabin and what I will concede is that there wasn't enough time to build the guy up for it to feel like Sabin was utterly worthy. However seeing as currently it's the core auidence that watches Impact in the U.S and that recently even that group of people have started to ebb away it was something to offer those whom had stuck with TNA loyaly.

 

I think the bigger picture is that giving him the world title now is just a device to solidify him in the main event/upper card status and promote another TNA original talent to the upper echelons of the card (maybe they want to get rid of a higher paid ex-WWE guy in the mid-future). Shelly would have made a better choice and I am sort of hoping that somehow TNA can get him in to fued with Sabin over the title, alas I think that's unrealistic.

 

Magnus or A.J Styles will ultimatly take the title at BFG and have a lenghy reign in my opinion.

[FireBrand]

^^^That man know.

 

My man Sean Waltman has been throwing his bandana and poodle hair into the discussion:

Classy move by @TNADixie on the release of Jesse Sorensen. Last time I parted ways with TNA, They sent out a statement announcing my release. Problem is, I wasn't under contract for them to release.

 

The Jesse firing is a bad one I reckon. He was doing an office job. On proper shit money. Did they really need to fire him? After he, well, broke his neck for the promotion and didn't sue as he lay there as the referee went "best count him out. I'd rather him break his neck than break kayfabe".

 

 

Well I don't know how much money he was on but it wasn't shit money, this was from PWinsider:

 

On the Jesse Sorensen front, the word among those I've spoken to is that he was being paid well above the salary that anyone else working as a production assistant would have gotten as a way for the company to help him as he recovered. It was simply a financial cutback decision as the company is really cutting corners of late. That's actually been going on for months, but now they are really trying to cut back. There may be more talent cuts coming as well and a lot of people are worried about that.