Minor news items that don't deserve a thread

[IANdrewDiceClay]

This tweet from Bennett might have confirmed it:

Sometimes what seems like a huge disappointment at the time, can be the greatest thing to ever happen to you

[Arch Stanton]

Getting covered in shit tattoos also ensures that you'll have crap looking action figures forever.

 

If I was in power at WWE, nobody on the roster would be allowed new tattoos without running it by the office first.

 

So many guys in developmental have fuck awful tattoos.

[I Bent My Wookie]

I thought that was already protocol? I'm sure someone a while back got massively bollocked for getting a new tattoo as the office hadn't cleared it yet, whereas they do have the option to tell them no as it is part of the image rights they have for them?

[Arch Stanton]

I thought that was already protocol? I'm sure someone a while back got massively bollocked for getting a new tattoo as the office hadn't cleared it yet, whereas they do have the option to tell them no as it is part of the image rights they have for them?

Maybe it is. To be honest, most of the ones with shit tattoos already had them when they arrived.

[I Bent My Wookie]

The diva in question I was thinking of after a stupidly long google search was under the name Saylor James and got canned in 2009.

[Snitsky's back acne]

The diva in question I was thinking of after a stupidly long google search was under the name Saylor James and got canned in 2009.

 

You should have just asked me!

 

Yes, it was Saylor James, aka Catalina Hager, Jack Swagger's real-life wife.

 

She's also quite the sex-pot.

 

http://www.fratfury.com/catalina-white/

[air_raid]

PS have released their piece on the top 10 US all-rounders of all time, that created a small bit of chatter when Jimmy Boy first gave us the scoop. Let's see how accurate some of our predictions were :

 

Can't wait to see who is in this! Gotta be michaels/hart/flair/steamboat - not sure who else would be in their though

Steve Austin and Great Muta would be in there I'd imagine as both ticked so many boxes. Although if it is only America, they may likely not deem Muta's fantastic NWA stuff enough as it was relatively short. Ted Dibiase from Mid South / Houston up until his retirement was brilliant in the ring, on the mic and generally very versatile. Randy Savage, Jerry Lawler and Terry Funk should also be included.

If Lawler's not in there it's total fucking bullshit. I half expect him to slip Davey Richards in there.

Yeah, and find a way to put in an indy darling that will wrestle in Morecambe soon.

For best "worker/all-rounder" I'm going to have a punt that their ten would be something along the lines of :

Bret, Shawn, Savage, Angle, Bruno, Flair, Dusty, Austin, Funk and Race.

 

I don't expect them to name anyone that never headlined for either the McMahons or JCP/WCW. Rightly or wrongly.

 

So, how did we do?

 

Without typing up the piece verbatim, here is the criteria they used :

"A wrestler who can work, draw money and talk is a U.S.-style all-rounder by the definition of this article."

 

And yes, some of us got pretty near to knowing how Fin's mind works. (Interestingly the piece actually says "Fin Martin lists in descending order whom he believes are the 10 finest" so it wasn't even a collaboration with the other writers.)

 

Here are his ten :

 

10. Jerry Lawler

9. Randy Savage

8. Kurt Angle

7. Bret Hart

6. Harley Race

5. Buddy Rogers

4. Terry Funk

3. Ric Flair

2. Shawn Michaels

1. Steve Austin

 

So, I'm pleased to say I was wrong on the Lawler count. And there's absolutely no denying he deserves his place. Sad that so many modern fans that never know anything different from Lawler prior to him turning up in the WWF will only know what a brilliant heel he is and babyface only in the context of his twilight years : in his prime, he was the one of the best fiery babyfaces you ever saw. Butch can tell you more eloquently than I can.

 

I know many people will debate Bret's inclusion because he didn't really draw and his promo style was understated, but that's not to say the man couldn't talk, and Fin underlines his placing succinctly :

 

"Granted, he was neither the drawing card nor the promo man that others on this list were, but heck: he could deliver the goods in the ring."

 

I'm a little surprised that Angle places so low given that Fin loves him, considering how good he got how quick, and his versatility in terms of embracing full-on ridiculous slapstick humour compared to one or two names that come above him, but then again, he doesn't quite have the gravitas most of the men placed above him have, with the exception of Hart.

 

Jimmy Boy, Steamboat was never getting in as an old-rounder that never played heel or had a distinguished run of gates that he'd drawn behind him. His run of matches with Flair was outstanding, but outside of his sole World title reign, his career was above-average but not outstanding for the time in terms of achievements. He was a midcard babyface with an abundance of talent, but he was only briefly "a big deal" compared to everyone else. In terms of playing heel, I'll accept a counterpoint that Buddy Rogers was never a noteworthy babyface. But he drew big money and he WAS a big deal. So big in fact, that the decisions regarding the booking of him defending - and most importantly, losing - the NWA World title changed the business and played a massive part in the US industry being shaped into what it has become.

 

I'll admit that it might have been naive of me to think Fin would include Dusty, which I did because I know how fond he is of the great verbal storytellers like Piper, Jake, Flair and "The Dream." But Dusty also never successfully played a heel role for a sustained length of time on the national stage, so he too doesn't get in over anybody that did (successfully) play on both sides of the fence on the big stage during their prime years.

 

I find it hard to fault his logic of Austin as number one. Was he a better wrestler than Shawn Michaels or a better promo than Ric Flair? Debatable. But he belongs in a top 3 with the pair of them, and drew more money than both, or as Fin puts it "set cable television, pay-per-view and merchandise sales records" as well as notching the best paid single year (1999) of any pro wrestler ever and being half of the first PPV main event (WrestleMania XVII) to crack the million buys mark.

 

Thoughts?

Edited July 10, 2013 by air_raid

[PowerButchi]

I'm always wary when someone like Buddy Rogers appears in something like this, as to be honest there isn't really the footage available to really make a proper case for him as a top 10 all timer if we're taking in abilities as a worker in with drawing and impact and the like.

 

Or if you are going to put in Rogers, surely you'd have to put in Thesz as well? Or if being a draw is a big consideration in this, you'd have to go to bat for Bob Backlund selling out MSG a billion times or whatever it was.

Edited July 10, 2013 by PowerButchi

[Kaz Hayashi]

It pains me to say it, but I have to say fair play to this list. As above, I raised an eyebrow at buddy, purely because from that list, I'm least familiar with his history. Personally, I love Angle but would have to give bothe the rock and sting a nod above him for a top ten, based on the criteria.

[air_raid]

The case for Rogers is largely built on his impact on the industry in terms of playing a character with promos and catch phrases that were "years ahead of their time" according to Fin. Basically he's the point at which the wrestling/"hooking" ability of the guy on top became secondary to the character - the "style, image, pizzazz."

 

Opening verse from Fin reads "Of all the wrestlers on the list, none did more to change pro wrestling than Buddy Rogers. With the possible exception of the original Gorgeous George, one of his contemporaries, he was the most influential wrestler ever." Basically Fin goes on to say before Rogers, basically heels were all tough and rugged, and nobody did flamboyant and arrogant. In terms of influence, the fact you see so much of Rogers in Ric Flair probably is a factor in Martin rating him so highly. He also says he popularised a lot of moves and was king of the carry-job between the late 40s and early 60s, so you've got "great wrestler" to add to "game changing character," "successful World Champion" and "drew everywhere he worked."

 

He closes with :

"After a title defence against Killer Kowalski, Rogers said : 'The greatest wrestling that wrestling's ever had come out of this body.... (I'm) the greatest diamond wrestling ever had.' At that point, he was."

 

So I would imagine "sphere of influence" and "game changer" might be things that tip Rogers over the edge in comparison to a great wrestler, champion and draw like a Thesz, Backlund or Bruno in the mind of Martin. It might literally be as nerdishly simple as "Ric Flair borrowed heavily from his act and Flair might be the best ever, so he's got to be up there."

[IANdrewDiceClay]

10. Jerry Lawler

9. Randy Savage

8. Kurt Angle

7. Bret Hart

6. Harley Race

5. Buddy Rogers

4. Terry Funk

3. Ric Flair

2. Shawn Michaels

1. Steve Austin

I like the list. He did a good job with it. But ... I'd have had Savage much higher than that. He was the definition of an all-rounder. Austin probably should be number one if you take all of what he could do (and what he did) into account. Serious heel, serious face, comedy heel, comedy face, brawling, mat wrestling, storytelling, promos, acting in segments, tag wrestling and of course drawing ability. He seemed to be able to do the lot in his prime, including working around an injury for years which should have ended his career. Savage for me was a far better all-rounder than Bret, Harley, Michaels and Angle (and I suppose Rogers, but I've seen little of him). Savage had all what they had, but how many people could say they lived with Hogan in his prime in terms of drawing ability? Hogan went off to film No Holds Barred and business continued to thrive with Savage in the big arenas. And in WCW Savage was the reason in 1996 that their business picked up. Savage and Flair's feud was basically the only reason they were selling tickets pre-nWo. The turn around came thanks in large part to Savage. Savage had everything. Bret and Michaels rivaled him (and probably surpassed him) as in ring workers, but Savage by far a bigger star than both of them. Savage was a super worker and a super draw. Rarely do the two meet.

Edited July 10, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay

[air_raid]

Savage had all what they had, but how many people could say they lived with Hogan in his prime in terms of drawing ability? Hogan went off to film No Holds Barred and business continued to thrive with Savage in the big arenas.

 

On that very note Findlay sez :

"His post-'Mania feud with 'Million Dollar Man' Ted DiBiase, whom Savage had beaten in the tourney final, grossed huge dollars. Savage's tag match with Mega-Powers partner Hulk Hogan against Andre The Giant and DiBiase at SummerSlam that year pulled 500,000 buys. And the Mega-Power Meltdown and split from Hogan and Elizabeth in 1989, leading to Savage's heel turn, made WM V, where Hogan regained the WWF title from Savage, the biggest-money show in wrestling history. From 1988-1989, Savage became only the second wrestler in history (after Hogan) to earn more than one million dollars in a year. In terms of status, he would never top that status again."

 

Interestingly all Fin says on Savage's promos are in his closing paragraph - "outrageous promo style made him one of the most imitated men in wrestling." I think Fin definitely leans towards the "technical wrestler" appeal with Bret, Angle and Shawn, even though he does describe Randy as a "brilliant worker and showman, who made everything count". He definitely brings more to the table as a package than Bret did, and for Angle to rank higher... well, I guess Fin overrates "Comedy Kurt." He certainly mention those skits in glowing terms in the write-ups for Austin and Angle alike.

 

As for Savage over Shawn? Hmm.... from bell to bell, Shawn Michaels was the best American style performer of all time for me and as an overall package there was nothing he couldn't do - serious, juvenile, arrogant champion or heroic underdog, scrappy brawler or cunning coward, invincible or vulnerable when the situation demanded it. Plus, his career never deteriorated the way Savage's did - dramatically, due to those injuries - and he went out still the best they had. The things Michaels never did that Savage did was draw big houses for big money as champion, and personally I don't think he was a "star-maker" - he didn't put anybody on the map the way Macho Man did for Dallas Page in '97. You won't convince me he made Stone Cold into a massive star, I'd say he was there already.

Edited July 10, 2013 by air_raid

[Duke]

I was about to launch into some sweltering rhetoric about how it's criminal The Rock isn't on that list (trust me, it'd have been great) but its extremely hard to budge any of the others....

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Shawn Michaels was a part timer for about 14 years and took 4 years out, so I'd say Michaels career did deteriorate. For the praise Michaels deservingly gets, he didn't work half as hard as the rest of the people on the list in his prime. After 1996 (not to mentioned the years from 1993-95 where he'd take long stretches of time off), Michaels never did another full schedule. And he even cried about that in 1997 and went home. Michaels prime was when he was only working TV tapings. When he was in his late 20s and early 30s and arguably in his physical prime Michaels hardly ever did a full calender year. There was always something up with him. Where as Savage's knees and hips were crippling him in the late 90s and he still went out and tore it up with Diamond Dallas Page and made him. When Shawn Michaels was 44 he retired. When Savage was 44 he was still doing close to a full schedule main eventing house shows with Ric Flair for the WCW title. Savage broke down because of his longevity. Michaels took years off in his 30s. I'd say that was a big blemish on his career.

Edited July 10, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay

[air_raid]

I don't disagree with any of that, but I suppose you might ask if you judge the career and take the time off, sabbaticals/fucking off, first retirement and schedules into consideration, or do you just look at the body of work? Do you just look at what each man did while they were in the ring or on TV? When he was competing, HBK was never less than a brilliant wrestler from about the summer of 1992 until the day he hung them up, even playing in pain like he did at Taboo Tuesday, assembling a compelling bout with Trips in spite of being in need of immediate surgery.

 

Fin is fairly critical of the later stages of Savage's career :

 

"His WCW run was spotty: there were more misses than hits, and he was so 'roided-up and immobile in his last run in the shambles that WCW had become in summer 1999 that his fans would prefer to forget it happened. For this writer, Savage's last shining performances were against Diamond Dallas Page in 1997 when he was a member of the New World Order. At that time, he was still a brilliant worker and showman, who made everything count, not an imitation of the performer he had once been."

 

So sure, Shawn's career came in pieces rather than one run, but all the pieces were solid gold. I'm still wondering if he ever had a bad match.