Raw Discussion 10/10/11 **Spoilers**

[Dingo Warrior]

ROH has the wrestling aspect and may lack the star power and money for competing with WWE but at least when it comes to wrestling matches of top quality they deliver.

 

Depends what you're looking for on that count. It's very niche. I wouldn't say ROH's wrestling is top notch in my book.

 

 

It is still worth holding up hope that WWE will one day get their act together and give the fans what they want however a change of attitude is required, which I think will be a long wait.

 

What do the fans want? And which fans are they? There's many subsets of fans these days.

 

I am talking about fans that want good quality wrestling action, storylines that make sense and a TV show that makes you think WOW I wonder what will happen next week.

[Devon Malcolm]

I am talking about fans that want good quality wrestling action, storylines that make sense and a TV show that makes you think WOW I wonder what will happen next week.

 

Yes, but some fans, like me, are already getting that or most of that from WWE at the moment. So with all due respect, don't speak on my behalf.

[JohnnyChimpo]

What a shit come back for someone swearing.

It wasn't meant to be a comeback. It was meant to be me saying I'm not at all bothered by your childish, petty name calling. But I've gathered from your last couple of posts that you're pretty dense and aren't very good a reading between the lines.

 

It's how I'd talk in real life

You go around calling strangers bell ends? You must be a right prick.

 

so stop trying to apply the 'internet warrior behind keyboard geek who lives in basement of parent's house' stereotype to me.

I never tried to apply anything of the sort. Again, you're reading too much into something that isn't really there. Unless of course, you're really desperately trying to cover up that you are in fact an internet warrior behind keyboard geek who lives in basement of parents house. I don't know. Nor do I give two shits.

 

My point is that I'd rather let my imagination run a bit wild with the angle than watch it and keep saying to myself 'now hold on there. Let's not get too carried away, this isn't going to work out.'

And, yet again, you are missing my point. Even though I explained it to you once already. Nobody was saying "lets not get carried away, this isn't going to work". Your either deliberately missing the point and trying to put words in my mouth, or you really are a little dense. When you quoted me saying "Lets not get carried away...." it was referring to people saying Punk was the new Stone Cold, how it was the greatest promo of all time, and how it was the start of a new boom period. Here, here is the quote for you;

All the while, others, like myself, Ian, Butch etc were all saying; "Its a good promo, but lets not get carried away here", and people were responding with; "Fuck that, its the greatest promo of all time~".

Thats what I was saying, lets not get carried away over. Its pretty clear there that I'm talking specifically about the promo, and not the angle as a whole. I wasn't sitting there watching Raw thinking; "Man this is excellent, but I better try to not enjoy it much, cause it will end up shit anyway."

 

So laugh at people who are actually engaged in the product if you weeeeeel but you're the goon for doing so.

I'm not laughing at people who are engaged in the product. I'm someone who is engaged in the product. Again, I've already told you this, I really liked Punk's promo, I like the whole feud with Cena, I loved match they had at MITB. Everyone else thinks the angle has gone shit, but I'm just so happy that Triple H is back on Raw each week, that I don't care. I am 100% fully engaged in the product, just like I was before the Punk promo, and just like I have been ever since.

 

The "laughing" thing is something else you have taken way to literal. tiger_rick said something like "you can chuckle at Punk failing all you want......" and I replied with, 'its not Punk I'm laughing at. Its all the people who were claiming MITB was the most eagerly anticipated match of all time, how Punk was the new Stone Cold, how the new boom had begun etc." It was a tongue in cheek remark that you seem to have gotten your knickers in a twist over. I wasn't sitting there, reading the UKFF, literally laughing out loud. Ya bell end.

[Dirty Eddie]

Well they managed to afford Truth and Miz more time off screen and came up with ways to keep them involved. They may not be main event but there are two of them, both upper mid card.

No, what I'm saying is you have to have something in your main events, and that something should be the most important thing on the show -- and The Miz and R-Truth are neither WWE Champion nor number one contender. They've been a two-man Nexus, pretty much. Plus they only had one week of sending in a Youtube video as well. The notion of WWE keeping CM Punk away from Raw for months with the belt is just fanwank booking that ignores the realities of their business and it only gets Punk more "over" with the same people who were spunking over his speeches and streaming Money in the Bank. Back when everyone thought Punk was the new Austin, keeping him away seemed like madness. Although I'm sure they now regret it, because Cena vs Mysterio at SummerSlam would've more than likely drawn better than Punk did.

 

 

All the buzz that was build around MITB was about Punk's contract coming up and the possibility of the WWE Title being owned by someone about to leave the company. They booked themselves into that corner.

 

Then, when Punk returned and signed a new contract a week later, the whole thing felt underwhelming (which is a huge ongoing issue with many WWE angles).

 

It's just like when Cena got "fired" and didn't actually leave TV, then got re-instated within weeks. Just like McMahon getting crushed on the stage, and there being no pay-off, like The Nexus "higher power" that got forgotten about. Or the Mystery GM, who has been forgotten about.

 

WWE are often brilliant at starting something interesting, but they never get past a couple of weeks before panic sets in and they get back to normal, or they plain forget about what they were doing.

 

Punk was red-hot as the rebel who'd had enough, then they turned him into whiny-bitch man, getting his ass handed to him by Nash.

[Cobra1000]

Well they managed to afford Truth and Miz more time off screen and came up with ways to keep them involved. They may not be main event but there are two of them, both upper mid card.

No, what I'm saying is you have to have something in your main events, and that something should be the most important thing on the show -- and The Miz and R-Truth are neither WWE Champion nor number one contender. They've been a two-man Nexus, pretty much. Plus they only had one week of sending in a Youtube video as well. The notion of WWE keeping CM Punk away from Raw for months with the belt is just fanwank booking that ignores the realities of their business and it only gets Punk more "over" with the same people who were spunking over his speeches and streaming Money in the Bank. Back when everyone thought Punk was the new Austin, keeping him away seemed like madness. Although I'm sure they now regret it, because Cena vs Mysterio at SummerSlam would've more than likely drawn better than Punk did.

 

 

All the buzz that was build around MITB was about Punk's contract coming up and the possibility of the WWE Title being owned by someone about to leave the company. They booked themselves into that corner.

 

Then, when Punk returned and signed a new contract a week later, the whole thing felt underwhelming (which is a huge ongoing issue with many WWE angles).

 

It's just like when Cena got "fired" and didn't actually leave TV, then got re-instated within weeks. Just like McMahon getting crushed on the stage, and there being no pay-off, like The Nexus "higher power" that got forgotten about. Or the Mystery GM, who has been forgotten about.

 

WWE are often brilliant at starting something interesting, but they never get past a couple of weeks before panic sets in and they get back to normal, or they plain forget about what they were doing.

 

Punk was red-hot as the rebel who'd had enough, then they turned him into whiny-bitch man, getting his ass handed to him by Nash.

 

I agree with all of this. I actually am starting to really, really hate Punk atm.

[Devon Malcolm]

I agree with all of this. I actually am starting to really, really hate Punk atm.

 

Punk has been FAR better in the last few weeks since he got less mic time and has just been wrestling really good matches. They gave him far too much mic time and probably far too much freedom as well.

[King Pitcos]

All the buzz that was build around MITB was about Punk's contract coming up and the possibility of the WWE Title being owned by someone about to leave the company. They booked themselves into that corner.

 

Then, when Punk returned and signed a new contract a week later, the whole thing felt underwhelming (which is a huge ongoing issue with many WWE angles).

 

It's just like when Cena got "fired" and didn't actually leave TV, then got re-instated within weeks. Just like McMahon getting crushed on the stage, and there being no pay-off, like The Nexus "higher power" that got forgotten about. Or the Mystery GM, who has been forgotten about.

 

WWE are often brilliant at starting something interesting, but they never get past a couple of weeks before panic sets in and they get back to normal, or they plain forget about what they were doing.

Absolutely, it's a problem they keep booking themselves into. The difference with the Punk one is that he was champion and it was impossible to keep both him and the onscreen main eventers both looking important for any period of time. The Nexus one wasn't bound by anything, Barrett could've bragged for a few weeks about firing him before he showed up again. How long did Mick Foley have off during that phase when DX fired him and made the parody clips of him and all that?

 

I suppose the direction would've been people blaming Cena into doubting himself, then the tournament final at SummerSlam, then Punk returns and they have their real champion vs paper champion rematch at Night of Champions. But they'd have had a real hard time selling that tournament as worthwhile, I think.

 

Punk was red-hot as the rebel who'd had enough, then they turned him into whiny-bitch man, getting his ass handed to him by Nash.

He was whiny-bitch man as the rebel who'd had enough as well. It was the whining that got people online excited in the first place, the only difference was it went from "this is why I'm leaving" to "this is what I want to change." Did Nash ever get the better of him in a fair fight?

[PunkStep]

Just watching Raw. Good to see Air Boom have new entrance music- starting with Evan's music then cutting into the much slower Kofi theme was a heat-killer. Not as bad as the shitjob they had of Big Show & Kane's music last year, but it was still a heat-killer.

 

Also, I love this new stable that seems to have appeared of Christian, Dolph, Cody & Ziggler. I really hope they give this some time as I think the stable could have some legs.

[Dirty Eddie]

All the buzz that was build around MITB was about Punk's contract coming up and the possibility of the WWE Title being owned by someone about to leave the company. They booked themselves into that corner.

 

Then, when Punk returned and signed a new contract a week later, the whole thing felt underwhelming (which is a huge ongoing issue with many WWE angles).

 

It's just like when Cena got "fired" and didn't actually leave TV, then got re-instated within weeks. Just like McMahon getting crushed on the stage, and there being no pay-off, like The Nexus "higher power" that got forgotten about. Or the Mystery GM, who has been forgotten about.

 

WWE are often brilliant at starting something interesting, but they never get past a couple of weeks before panic sets in and they get back to normal, or they plain forget about what they were doing.

Absolutely, it's a problem they keep booking themselves into. The difference with the Punk one is that he was champion and it was impossible to keep both him and the onscreen main eventers both looking important for any period of time. The Nexus one wasn't bound by anything, Barrett could've bragged for a few weeks about firing him before he showed up again. How long did Mick Foley have off during that phase when DX fired him and made the parody clips of him and all that?

 

I suppose the direction would've been people blaming Cena into doubting himself, then the tournament final at SummerSlam, then Punk returns and they have their real champion vs paper champion rematch at Night of Champions. But they'd have had a real hard time selling that tournament as worthwhile, I think.

 

Punk was red-hot as the rebel who'd had enough, then they turned him into whiny-bitch man, getting his ass handed to him by Nash.

He was whiny-bitch man as the rebel who'd had enough as well. It was the whining that got people online excited in the first place, the only difference was it went from "this is why I'm leaving" to "this is what I want to change." Did Nash ever get the better of him in a fair fight?

 

I still maintain that they could have stretched Punk being off regular TV for longer if they had planned things out better. The comic-con thing was a great start, but they gave in too easily. Again though, it was WWE that booked themselves into that situation, and then decided to bring Punk straight back to TV a week later. It was that change from being a renegade "I don't give a fuck anymore" character to being a regular employee again that hurt him.

 

I don't agree that his whole character has just been that of a whiny-bitch the whole time. At first, a lot of what he said seemed quite valid, but by the time he was arguing with Trips and Nash it just turned into petty back and forth stuff from all involved.

 

Nash may not have gotten the better of him in a fair fight, but he did lay him out a bunch of times with no direct returning of the favour from Punk. Still not great stuff for a new top Face. Triple H is the only person who got one back on Nash.

[Cobra1000]

I agree with all of this. I actually am starting to really, really hate Punk atm.

 

Punk has been FAR better in the last few weeks since he got less mic time and has just been wrestling really good matches. They gave him far too much mic time and probably far too much freedom as well.

 

I havent seen this weeks Raw, but I do hope hes better. The bit where he pretended to be sick or whatever just made him look like a whiny cunt, and why he never bothered to lamp Kevin Nash for costing him the title was beyond me.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

The piss taking of Jim Ross didn't stop in the ring. No, no, no. WWE.com were waiting for JR when he got sacked without knowing it. He doesn't answer a word and they keep following him asking him questions like "did it sting to be fired by the person who replaced you" and "is it true audiences dont find you attractive". It actually broke my evil shell and I sort of felt really sorry for him. Check it out:

http://vids.wwe.com/13573/wwecom-exclusive-cameras-capture

[Loki]

Work. WWE have trademarked all the "Mr Future Endeavoured" and that, and this firing surely feeds into that. Laurinitis is going to be an AWFUL boss and the Superstars will be beggin to have HHH back. I reckon JR knew beforehand.

[Fatty Facesitter]

The piss taking of Jim Ross didn't stop in the ring. No, no, no. WWE.com were waiting for JR when he got sacked without knowing it. He doesn't answer a word and they keep following him asking him questions like "did it sting to be fired by the person who replaced you" and "is it true audiences dont find you attractive". It actually broke my evil shell and I sort of felt really sorry for him. Check it out:

http://vids.wwe.com/13573/wwecom-exclusive-cameras-capture

 

You know, they might be onto something there and I'm not talking about Jim Ross. That .Com guy seemed a bit evil. A great running gimmick would be to have a .Com guy badgering babyfaces and asking them annoying questions like that.

[Astro Hollywood]

Work or not, it's hard to feel sorry for him when he keeps coming back like a beaten dog. A list of the times JR's been humiliated over the years would be very long indeed.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I agree with you, but fucking hell, they don't half get on his case. I do laugh at some of it though. No idea why he sticks around. JR could take TNA and a small time MMA promotion to the cleaners if he wanted. He's got value in wrestling and some outside of it, judging by the offers he had when his contract was up last year. He's good at spotting talent, he's good at commentating, he's good at running the backstage area, he's good at producing. And he's a recognisable name and face. I dont get why he takes it. Unlike the performers, who get merchandise royalties and PPV bonuses, JR only makes what he earns on his downside guarantee. He could probably get more than what he earns in WWE elsewhere.

 

I recently heard this story on that Lagana podcast, where he said when Howard Finkle was working part time with WWE in the early part of the 2000s, he was booked to return to a show on the same night as a WWE show. The show he was booked on was the same building he was discovered in and they were going to have a little tribute to him with all his friends and family. Finkle was supposedly telling everyone about it for weeks and he was all excited for it. When he was on his way to the show, Vince McMahon apparently said to all the writers "watch this" and he rang Finkle and told him to get back on a flight, because he was wrestling Lilian Garcia that night just to fuck with him. Poor bastard.