UFC 137: 'Penn vs Diaz' Thread

[John Galt]

Are there any real stakes to the main event? Whoever wins is going to get beat by GSP anyway.

 

They might aswell just scrap the 170 division altogether then eh? And with Jon Jones and Anderson Silva about we might aswell get rid of 205 and 185 aswell.

 

GSP will lose eventually. Fuck me, it doesn't seem that long ago people were saying this kind of stuff about Chuck Liddell and Matt Hughes. It's sad but look at them now. One day GSP will be past it and even though he's phenomenal at the moment that's no reason for the rest of the division to just give up all hope of dethroning him.

 

There's no need to be a child about it. Just look at those guys: BJ Penn has been soundly beaten by GSP twice, what's he going to do this time? Especially when you consider how close he was to retiring after the Jon Fitch fight and then Nick Diaz is Nick Diaz. GSP is better than him on every level. Condit is a rising star in the division, here there's a has been and a never will be.

[wandshogun09]

Jorgensen and Curran deserves the main card more than Tavares anyway, this is a somewhat positive change. Jacoby will still be fighting on the prelims.

 

Yeah I agree with that. Jorgensen is one of my favourite 135ers to watch and Curran's a well rounded veteran. It deffo deserves a main card spot.

 

Are there any real stakes to the main event? Whoever wins is going to get beat by GSP anyway.

 

They might aswell just scrap the 170 division altogether then eh? And with Jon Jones and Anderson Silva about we might aswell get rid of 205 and 185 aswell.

 

GSP will lose eventually. Fuck me, it doesn't seem that long ago people were saying this kind of stuff about Chuck Liddell and Matt Hughes. It's sad but look at them now. One day GSP will be past it and even though he's phenomenal at the moment that's no reason for the rest of the division to just give up all hope of dethroning him.

 

There's no need to be a child about it. Just look at those guys: BJ Penn has been soundly beaten by GSP twice, what's he going to do this time? Especially when you consider how close he was to retiring after the Jon Fitch fight and then Nick Diaz is Nick Diaz. GSP is better than him on every level. Condit is a rising star in the division, here there's a has been and a never will be.

 

I'm a child because I don't think the whole 170 division should just roll over and give up hope?

 

To be honest I don't know what the point was you were trying to make. Are you saying just because GSP is dominating the weightclass that no-one should even bother trying to beat him because they'll lose? My reply was the only one that anyone could make to that thinking. There's 2 options, either the rest of the division gives 100% into trying to take his belt or the UFC just gives up and scraps the division because apparently he's unbeatable?

 

You ask what the stakes are, they're the same as any contender fight. Winner gets closer to a title shot. I never once said BJ would beat GSP. And as for Condit being a 'never will be', are you fucking serious? He was the unbeaten WEC champion, he's got one of the best fight finish ratios in MMA, dangerous in every area and he's improved with each fight in the UFC finishing guys who very rarely get finished and beating dangerous up and comers like MacDonald and Ellenberger along the way. If he doesn't deserve a chance at the belt then no fucker does.

 

I never once said the winner of Penn/Diaz would beat GSP in his next title defense. I'm just making the point that nobody in MMA is unbeatable and on any given day his streak can come to an end.

 

As for GSP being better than Diaz on every level, I'm gonna have to disagree. I'd say Diaz is the slightly better BJJ practiononer and the slightly more effective boxer but I'd pick GSP to win that fight because a) he's a better overall mixed martial artist imo, he puts it all together better than pretty much anyone in MMA and b) he's a phenomenal MMA wrestler which is Diaz's main weakness.

 

And being better on every level didn't stop Matt Serra putting him away did it? That right there proves that there is always a reason to tune in for an MMA fight. You can't take any result for granted no matter how 'dominant' one guy is.

[John Galt]

Jorgensen and Curran deserves the main card more than Tavares anyway, this is a somewhat positive change. Jacoby will still be fighting on the prelims.

 

Yeah I agree with that. Jorgensen is one of my favourite 135ers to watch and Curran's a well rounded veteran. It deffo deserves a main card spot.

 

Are there any real stakes to the main event? Whoever wins is going to get beat by GSP anyway.

 

They might aswell just scrap the 170 division altogether then eh? And with Jon Jones and Anderson Silva about we might aswell get rid of 205 and 185 aswell.

 

GSP will lose eventually. Fuck me, it doesn't seem that long ago people were saying this kind of stuff about Chuck Liddell and Matt Hughes. It's sad but look at them now. One day GSP will be past it and even though he's phenomenal at the moment that's no reason for the rest of the division to just give up all hope of dethroning him.

 

There's no need to be a child about it. Just look at those guys: BJ Penn has been soundly beaten by GSP twice, what's he going to do this time? Especially when you consider how close he was to retiring after the Jon Fitch fight and then Nick Diaz is Nick Diaz. GSP is better than him on every level. Condit is a rising star in the division, here there's a has been and a never will be.

 

I'm a child because I don't think the whole 170 division should just roll over and give up hope?

 

To be honest I don't know what the point was you were trying to make. Are you saying just because GSP is dominating the weightclass that no-one should even bother trying to beat him because they'll lose? My reply was the only one that anyone could make to that thinking. There's 2 options, either the rest of the division gives 100% into trying to take his belt or the UFC just gives up and scraps the division because apparently he's unbeatable?

 

You ask what the stakes are, they're the same as any contender fight. Winner gets closer to a title shot. I never once said BJ would beat GSP. And as for Condit being a 'never will be', are you fucking serious? He was the unbeaten WEC champion, he's got one of the best fight finish ratios in MMA, dangerous in every area and he's improved with each fight in the UFC finishing guys who very rarely get finished and beating dangerous up and comers like MacDonald and Ellenberger along the way. If he doesn't deserve a chance at the belt then no fucker does.

 

I never once said the winner of Penn/Diaz would beat GSP in his next title defense. I'm just making the point that nobody in MMA is unbeatable and on any given day his streak can come to an end.

 

As for GSP being better than Diaz on every level, I'm gonna have to disagree. I'd say Diaz is the slightly better BJJ practiononer and the slightly more effective boxer but I'd pick GSP to win that fight because a) he's a better overall mixed martial artist imo, he puts it all together better than pretty much anyone in MMA and b) he's a phenomenal MMA wrestler which is Diaz's main weakness.

 

And being better on every level didn't stop Matt Serra putting him away did it? That right there proves that there is always a reason to tune in for an MMA fight. You can't take any result for granted no matter how 'dominant' one guy is.

 

You should take time out from dribbling onto your keyboard to learn to read. How did you come to the conclusion that I said Condit is shit from the line "Condit is a rising star in the division, here there's a has been and a never will be."? How did you extrapolate my point about BJ Penn and Nick Diaz to mean an entire division? And really, you may as well give a title shot to anyone if you're using Serra's lucky punch win as a sign of the competitiveness of MMA. Did you even see the rematch?

[wandshogun09]

OK I don't normally bother getting into shit like this but fuck it

 

How did you come to the conclusion that I said Condit is shit from the line "Condit is a rising star in the division, here there's a has been and a never will be."?

 

OK then I'll admit I misread that and thought the bold bit was referring to Condit. I guess you meant Penn and Diaz? Well done you got me.

 

Still think it's bollocks you calling BJ Penn, one of the most talented fighters in the sport and one of the best lightweights in MMA history, a has been. And Diaz is a never will be? Yeah OK, that's fucking told me hasn't it.

 

How did you extrapolate my point about BJ Penn and Nick Diaz to mean an entire division? And really, you may as well give a title shot to anyone if you're using Serra's lucky punch win as a sign of the competitiveness of MMA. Did you even see the rematch?

 

Extrapolate? Sorry I'm too busy dribbling on my keyboard to know what that means.

 

Yeah I get that your point was on Penn and Diaz but do you mean to tell me if the contenders fight was between Fitch and Ellenberger you'd be saying any different? The few post I've read of yours always seem to be negative. If you're not into Penn vs Diaz then do something else with your time next Saturday night. Maybe get your dictonary and read up on some more wonderful words like 'extrapolate' to show how fucking superior you are to the keyboard dribblers of this board.

 

On Serra. The phrase 'lucky punch' in MMA is shite. Serra threw the punch, GSP could have avoided it, blocked it or whatever, the fact is Serra threw the punch and it landed. Tough shit. Serra deserves the credit. And if you watch that fight Serra was doing just fine before he 'got lucky'. If GSP was schooling him and then Serra threw a hail mary punch and KO'd him that could maybe be called 'lucky' but he was holding his own and he made his shots count.

 

Of course I saw the rematch and it's clear GSP was the more skilled MMA fighter. Doesn't mean Serra didn't deserve his chance at the belt or that his win is any less valid.

 

You should take time out from dribbling onto your keyboard to learn to read.

 

Sorry I'm not fluent in mong.

 

Look, your entitled to give your opinions so if you don't like the Penn vs Diaz fight fair enough, I don't give a shit I'll be watching and loving every second of it. My reply to your original post was maybe overly sarky but if you're gonna come into these threads being all negative and whiney then some people will disagree.

 

As for the above quote, take your negativity and your big words and shove 'em down your cockhole you utter mouth breather. I guess if I'm getting called a child I might aswell act like one, Prick.

[jimufctna24]

Save the Diaz is a "never was" until he fails against the Penn's, Fitch's and GSP's of the world.

 

The past few years he has beaten some stiff competition, yes the names above are in another league and most are predicting he will lose against them, but until he does we can only speculate.

 

Diaz is not the same fighter who got beat by Sanchez and Sherk years ago.

 

EDIT: Wandshotgun mad? Fucking hell!

[METAL ON METAL]

#TeamWandshogun!

 

[David]

I'm a child because I don't think the whole 170 division should just roll over and give up hope?

To be fair, he never said "the whole division", he said the two guys in this main event. He's right on that account.

[METAL ON METAL]

I'm a child because I don't think the whole 170 division should just roll over and give up hope?

To be fair, he never said "the whole division", he said the two guys in this main event. He's right on that account.

 

It may be true of BJ but to say that about Diaz when he hasn't even faced GSP, is idiotic.

 

Hence the whole reason Diaz was going to fight him in the first place, they'd hardly make a match-up if they think it was one-sided.

[David]

I'm a child because I don't think the whole 170 division should just roll over and give up hope?

To be fair, he never said "the whole division", he said the two guys in this main event. He's right on that account.

It may be true of BJ but to say that about Diaz when he hasn't even faced GSP, is idiotic.

 

Hence the whole reason Diaz was going to fight him in the first place, they'd hardly make a match-up if they think it was one-sided.

What if Penn wins this fight? Where does that leave Diaz then? It's a huge mistake by Dana, and it reeks of something he did without thinking it through properly.

[The Cum Doctor]

They made the fight because it was champion vs. champion mainly I'd say. Although I do agree that Diaz may well have a chance and writing him off isn't smart.

[METAL ON METAL]

I'm a child because I don't think the whole 170 division should just roll over and give up hope?

To be fair, he never said "the whole division", he said the two guys in this main event. He's right on that account.

It may be true of BJ but to say that about Diaz when he hasn't even faced GSP, is idiotic.

 

Hence the whole reason Diaz was going to fight him in the first place, they'd hardly make a match-up if they think it was one-sided.

What if Penn wins this fight? Where does that leave Diaz then? It's a huge mistake by Dana, and it reeks of something he did without thinking it through properly.

 

Well if BJ wins then obviously Diaz will be nowhere near a title shot, but at the same time BJ wouldn't really be near a title shot if he won due to GSP still being champ. I agree it'd look bad if BJ won as it would eliminate another fresh challenger, but UFC couldn't really put better match-ups on the card as replacements in such short notice.

[wandshogun09]

I'm a child because I don't think the whole 170 division should just roll over and give up hope?

To be fair, he never said "the whole division", he said the two guys in this main event. He's right on that account.

 

Yeah that's true but even if you re-word my original sentence to say "I'm a child because I don't think Penn and Diaz should just roll over and give up hope?", I still think that's valid imo. I'm in total agreement that I wouldn't give either guy much chance of winning against GSP but it doesn't mean they (certainly in Diaz's case at least) should never get a chance just because everyone thinks they can't win.

 

Well if BJ wins then obviously Diaz will be nowhere near a title shot, but at the same time BJ wouldn't really be near a title shot if he won due to GSP still being champ. I agree it'd look bad if BJ won as it would eliminate another fresh challenger, but UFC couldn't really put better match-ups on the card as replacements in such short notice.

 

Yeah that's the way I look at it. BJ's gonna have to do something fucking spectacular to ever get a title shot while GSP is holding the belt. But people get carried away sometimes thinking where guys go after without taking time to enjoy the fight we have on our hands currently. Penn vs Diaz for me, is a dream fight which I really never expected to see. I'm just looking forward to seeing them fight, whatever happens after happens.

 

I reckon, assuming GSP vs Condit still goes ahead early next year, that if Diaz beats BJ he'll get the next title shot. If Penn wins I think they might have him rematch Fitch (provided Fitch wins his next fight). In that scenario, if I could choose I'd rather have Fitch vs Ellenberger and have BJ fight someone like Thiago Alves which would be an awesome fight.

[Egg Shen]

I'm a child because I don't think the whole 170 division should just roll over and give up hope?

To be fair, he never said "the whole division", he said the two guys in this main event. He's right on that account.

 

Yeah that's true but even if you re-word my original sentence to say "I'm a child because I don't think Penn and Diaz should just roll over and give up hope?", I still think that's valid imo. I'm in total agreement that I wouldn't give either guy much chance of winning against GSP but it doesn't mean they (certainly in Diaz's case at least) should never get a chance just because everyone thinks they can't win.

 

Well if BJ wins then obviously Diaz will be nowhere near a title shot, but at the same time BJ wouldn't really be near a title shot if he won due to GSP still being champ. I agree it'd look bad if BJ won as it would eliminate another fresh challenger, but UFC couldn't really put better match-ups on the card as replacements in such short notice.

 

Yeah that's the way I look at it. BJ's gonna have to do something fucking spectacular to ever get a title shot while GSP is holding the belt. But people get carried away sometimes thinking where guys go after without taking time to enjoy the fight we have on our hands currently. Penn vs Diaz for me, is a dream fight which I really never expected to see. I'm just looking forward to seeing them fight, whatever happens after happens.

 

I reckon, assuming GSP vs Condit still goes ahead early next year, that if Diaz beats BJ he'll get the next title shot. If Penn wins I think they might have him rematch Fitch (provided Fitch wins his next fight). In that scenario, if I could choose I'd rather have Fitch vs Ellenberger and have BJ fight someone like Thiago Alves which would be an awesome fight.

 

That's how i look at things. People sometimes get caught up up too much in 'grand scheme of things', fuck that! sometimes it's nice to just see some good fights.

[John Galt]

I'm a child because I don't think the whole 170 division should just roll over and give up hope?

To be fair, he never said "the whole division", he said the two guys in this main event. He's right on that account.

 

It may be true of BJ but to say that about Diaz when he hasn't even faced GSP, is idiotic.

 

Hence the whole reason Diaz was going to fight him in the first place, they'd hardly make a match-up if they think it was one-sided.

 

I can't imagine Lorenzo Fertita booking Dan Hardy vs. GSP and thinking it was going to be anything less than the steamrollering that took place.

[Egg Shen]

Dana White Video Blog #1!

 

basically recaps UFC 136 but its well worth a look, it basically focuses on what happens to the losers directly after coming back through the curtain, intersting stuff. Also shows what Melvin Guillard went through that night, literally 20mins before what you see in the video that man thought he was invincible, talk about humbled.

 

Also shows Dana handing out the bonus cheques.