Post-Mania RAW Discussion thread

[Supremo]

I don't think they've done the whole thing much harm with the handshake 'n' shit. Rock will come back next year, rip the shit out of Cena and we'll have the same anticipation we had a month or so ago. Guaran-damn-teed.

In the meantime though, now The Rock's gone, we've been left with two guys in The Miz and Cena who've been made to look like complete dickheads. If you came back due to The Rock's return, why would you stick around now? This whole angle has existed to make the pair of them look bad, neither have been allowed to prove otherwise, and now it's just put on hold for a year? Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure I agree. John Cena stood up verbally with The Rock

Not really. In the battle of the promos, Cena came across like a complete wally. Pearl Necklace, anyone?

 

would probably have beaten The Miz if not for the interference and then offered The Rock a fight.

Balls to offering him out, then agreeing to wait a year. After everything The Rock did and said to him, Cena should've beaten the fucking shit out of him there and then, injuring him for the eleven months they want us to wait. Only then may he have been on par with The Rock and saved face, but as it currently stands he's been made to look a goon and done very little in the way of getting a comeback. Smiling after he cost you the WWE Title at Wrestlemania? Shaking hands? What a fucking spaz.

 

The Miz proved himself a sneaky, viscious bastard before WrestleMania and fought out a gutsy draw before the restart on the show.

Even so, The Rock made him look like a complete mong both before and during Wrestlemania. Seriously, what the fuck was achieved by having The Rock beat The Miz up on both the go-home RAW and following his win at the pay per view? As far as I can see, it did nothing but harm to The Miz, with nothing to show for it. It's honestly as if they can't help themselves and feel the need to cut his legs off whenever he gets anything resembling a momuntary push towards stardom. He gets some heat on Cena for three or four weeks, then The Rock shows up and throws him around like a child. Then he gets a win at Wrestlemania, the first heel to do this in over a decade, and then The Rock pops back in to bounce him around yet again. Fuck, remember what a big deal it was when Hunter, as a heel, walked out of Wrestlemania 16 the champion? Imagine if somebody who wasn't even sticking around for the next year ran in afterwards and made him look like a loser to end the pay per view!

 

The only drawback is that they've highlighted how uncool John Cena can be and reawakened a lot of the hatred towards him (though plenty of that comes around each WrestleMania anyway).

I'd say describing it as a, "reawakening," of hate doesn't do it justice. They've not only awoken it, but did their best to add fuel to the fire. How uncool and lame he is has never ever been so blatantly highlighted. Not even in his feud with Triple H leading into Wrestlemania 22.

 

I don't think they've given anyone who tuned in to watch The Rock a reason to stick around but nor have they driven away their core audience. They've done what they set out to do which is sell WrestleMania..

Whatever number Wrestlemania does, I honestly think it would've done the exact same number had The Rock not appeared again following that first promo. The buyrate was always going to be whatever The Rock meant in terms of bringing back old fans for a one time deal. Everything that followed that first promo though did very little to generate any more interest, whilst simultaneously burying the guys who are sticking round in the long-run.

 

They've also set up an absolute dream match for next year, which I never thought possible. I actually got goosebumps when Rock agreed to it.

 

My only worry is that now we won't ever get Undertaker/Cena at WM which I just have to see

I honestly didn't care by the time they announced the match. They'd botched it too much, as was clearly evident by the lack of reaction. And yeah, given how everything's played out, The Rock vs. Cena is now nowhere as exciting as a potential Undertaker vs. Cena match would be. Unbelievably, I'd rather The Rock got injured somehow so that we could get that match instead.

[Baz Windham]

Pearl Necklace, anyone?

 

No thanks.

[Supremo]

Frigid.

[tiger_rick]

I don't think they've done the whole thing much harm with the handshake 'n' shit. Rock will come back next year, rip the shit out of Cena and we'll have the same anticipation we had a month or so ago. Guaran-damn-teed.

In the meantime though, now The Rock's gone, we've been left with two guys in The Miz and Cena who've been made to look like complete dickheads. If you came back due to The Rock's return, why would you stick around now? This whole angle has existed to make the pair of them look bad, neither have been allowed to prove otherwise, and now it's just put on hold for a year? Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure I agree. John Cena stood up verbally with The Rock

Not really. In the battle of the promos, Cena came across like a complete wally. Pearl Necklace, anyone?

That was shit but the other two outstanding promo's he cut were the best of the entire series. A lot of Rock's stuff was pretty dull too. His promo at WrestleMania when he changed into DJ Talent halfway through wasn't the best.

 

would probably have beaten The Miz if not for the interference and then offered The Rock a fight.

Balls to offering him out, then agreeing to wait a year. After everything The Rock did and said to him, Cena should've beaten the fucking shit out of him there and then, injuring him for the eleven months they want us to wait. Only then may he have been on par with The Rock and saved face, but as it currently stands he's been made to look a goon and done very little in the way of getting a comeback. Smiling after he cost you the WWE Title at Wrestlemania? Shaking hands? What a fucking spaz.

Yeah, fair points. But doesn't kicking the fuck out of The Rock make Cena a heel? They obviously want to avoid that so they've painted themselves into a corner. Still, I can't really argue, he should have been raging but that's not the way he is.

 

The Miz proved himself a sneaky, viscious bastard before WrestleMania and fought out a gutsy draw before the restart on the show.

Even so, The Rock made him look like a complete mong both before and during Wrestlemania. Seriously, what the fuck was achieved by having The Rock beat The Miz up on both the go-home RAW and following his win at the pay per view? As far as I can see, it did nothing but harm to The Miz, with nothing to show for it. It's honestly as if they can't help themselves and feel the need to cut his legs off whenever he gets anything resembling a momuntary push towards stardom. He gets some heat on Cena for three or four weeks, then The Rock shows up and throws him around like a child. Then he gets a win at Wrestlemania, the first heel to do this in over a decade, and then The Rock pops back in to bounce him around yet again. Fuck, remember what a big deal it was when Hunter, as a heel, walked out of Wrestlemania 16 the champion? Imagine if somebody who wasn't even sticking around for the next year ran in afterwards and made him look like a loser to end the pay per view!

Hunter was a super-strong heel. Miz is the sort of chicken shit they tend to favour these days. Send the crowd home happy is their motto with these things.

 

They've also set up an absolute dream match for next year, which I never thought possible. I actually got goosebumps when Rock agreed to it.

 

My only worry is that now we won't ever get Undertaker/Cena at WM which I just have to see

I honestly didn't care by the time they announced the match. They'd botched it too much, as was clearly evident by the lack of reaction. And yeah, given how everything's played out, The Rock vs. Cena is now nowhere as exciting as a potential Undertaker vs. Cena match would be. Unbelievably, I'd rather The Rock got injured somehow so that we could get that match instead.

You're speaking for yourself there. I still desperately want to see Rock and Cena AND Taker and Cena.

[ThePhenom]

They've also set up an absolute dream match for next year, which I never thought possible. I actually got goosebumps when Rock agreed to it.

 

My only worry is that now we won't ever get Undertaker/Cena at WM which I just have to see

I honestly didn't care by the time they announced the match. They'd botched it too much, as was clearly evident by the lack of reaction. And yeah, given how everything's played out, The Rock vs. Cena is now nowhere as exciting as a potential Undertaker vs. Cena match would be. Unbelievably, I'd rather The Rock got injured somehow so that we could get that match instead.

You're speaking for yourself there. I still desperately want to see Rock and Cena AND Taker and Cena.

I would also love to see both, if Undertaker is healthy and ready to go by late July/August, whats stopping them from doing the Undertaker/Cena match at Summerslam?

[tiger_rick]

I would also love to see both, if Undertaker is healthy and ready to go by late July/August, whats stopping them from doing the Undertaker/Cena match at Summerslam?

It doesn't have the same effect. Cena is just about the only guy they have who puts "The Streak" at risk.

[The King of Old School]

I can see HHH/Taker again at next years Mania

 

Give Miz another big WM win next year, and have Taker/Miz at WM29

 

Then Cena vs Taker at WM30, at MSG which i think would be awesome.

 

That is of course if Taker can last that long, which hopefully with a (even more) reduced workload, he can.

[Supremo]

That was shit but the other two outstanding promo's he cut were the best of the entire series. A lot of Rock's stuff was pretty dull too. His promo at WrestleMania when he changed into DJ Talent halfway through wasn't the best.

That's true. The Rock's promos weren't exactly spectacular either, but his superior delivery was often enough for people to forgo the content (like that long as fuck one he cut in front of his belts, that was saved entirely by the passion he dsplayed), people seemed far more forgiving of him because of who he was (all that Yabba Dabba shit was equally as childish as Cena's stuff, but no-one seemed to care), and most importantly his bad promos weren't scripted into the storyline itself like Cena's were. It was bad enough for Cena when he cut that terrible promo, but then you had The Rock talking about it the following week and discussing how no-one was laughing. It made it ten times worse.

 

would probably have beaten The Miz if not for the interference and then offered The Rock a fight.

Balls to offering him out, then agreeing to wait a year. After everything The Rock did and said to him, Cena should've beaten the fucking shit out of him there and then, injuring him for the eleven months they want us to wait. Only then may he have been on par with The Rock and saved face, but as it currently stands he's been made to look a goon and done very little in the way of getting a comeback. Smiling after he cost you the WWE Title at Wrestlemania? Shaking hands? What a fucking spaz.

Yeah, fair points. But doesn't kicking the fuck out of The Rock make Cena a heel? They obviously want to avoid that so they've painted themselves into a corner.

Exactly my point. If they weren't willing to turn either of them, I'm stunned as to how they booked themselves this far into a corner. It reached a point this Monday where their only options were to either turn one of them, or go with what they eventually chose, which was confusing, strange, and made Cena look stupid.

 

Hunter was a super-strong heel. Miz is the sort of chicken shit they tend to favour these days. Send the crowd home happy is their motto with these things.

Speaking as someone who watched Wrestlemania in a pub and saw how deflated everyone was at 4am, sending The Rock out there to beat up The Miz didn't send the crowd home happy at all. Everyone was left feeling confused and ripped off, with many people asking, "wait, is that it?" when the logo came up to signify the end. At the very least, Cena should've returned and had a massive brawl with him. That's what everyone wanted to see.

[Green]

Hunter was a super-strong heel. Miz is the sort of chicken shit they tend to favour these days. Send the crowd home happy is their motto with these things.

Speaking as someone who watched Wrestlemania in a pub and saw how deflated everyone was at 4am, sending The Rock out there to beat up The Miz didn't send the crowd home happy at all. Everyone was left feeling confused and ripped off, with many people asking, "wait, is that it?" when the logo came up to signify the end. At the very least, Cena should've returned and had a massive brawl with him. That's what everyone wanted to see.

I bet Rick is feeling really silly now he's been proven wrong by the incredibly important "everyone in the pub I was at" and their opinion of what happened.

[King Pitcos]

It didn't really work though, the people WWE are hoping will stick around for a year booed The Rock when he dare put John Cena over. These people fucked off during John Cenas 'era'

No they didn't. The people that boo Cena watch every week. I don't know if you don't watch wrestling often anymore, but John Cena gets quite a lot of boos, and has done for years. It's not just the "come back because Rock's at WrestleMania" crowd that doesn't like him.

 

My thoughts exactly. As an example, what with everyone drawing similarities between this Wrestlemania and Wrestlemania 14 leading into it, can you imagine how Stone Cold's character would've reacted if Mike Tyson had cost him the match and the title at Mania 14? Do you think he'd have been smiling on the following RAW? No. He'd have gone absolutely mental, and probably attempted to fucking kill someone. It's night and day between then and now in terms of being made to care about something as a viewer.

Steve Austin in 1998 wasn't a million-time world champion. Cena, like Orton, Edge, HHH and Undertaker, has held the world titles so many times that nobody -- especially his detractors -- buys the "THIS TITLE SHOT MEANS EVERYTHING TO ME" type stuff from him as original or interesting anyway. It's a byproduct of WWE revolving around the same handful of characters without doing much to change them. The Batista heel turn made his obsession with the WWE championship interesting again, but they've yet to figure out a way of doing the same with the other AlwaysChampions.

 

John Cena doesn't give a flying fuck about anything, so accordingly it's no wonder nobody gives a fuck about him.

Of all the reactions Cena draws from a crowd, indifference isn't one of them.

[Devon Malcolm]

John Cena doesn't give a flying fuck about anything, so accordingly it's no wonder nobody gives a fuck about him.

Of all the reactions Cena draws from a crowd, indifference isn't one of them.

 

Agreed, that's mental. You don't ever hear silence when he's around. For apathy, see DH Smith.

[tiger_rick]

John Cena doesn't give a flying fuck about anything, so accordingly it's no wonder nobody gives a fuck about him.

Of all the reactions Cena draws from a crowd, indifference isn't one of them.

 

Agreed, that's mental. You don't ever hear silence when he's around. For apathy, see DH Smith.

In fairness, he's probably referring to the crowd on Monday night who were deathly quiet for a segment involving John Cena and The Rock.

[Supremo]

John Cena doesn't give a flying fuck about anything, so accordingly it's no wonder nobody gives a fuck about him.

Of all the reactions Cena draws from a crowd, indifference isn't one of them.

 

Agreed, that's mental. You don't ever hear silence when he's around. For apathy, see DH Smith.

I meant in terms of wanting to see him achieve something, or avenge something. This year alone we've seen him attempt to win titles, overthrow the Nexus, free himself from being in Nexus, win the Royal Rumble, gain revenge on the man who cost him the Royal Rumble, gain revenge on the man who cost him his Title victory, so on and so forth. All tangible stipulations that should mean something and help push pay per view buys, but because his character doesn't seem to actually give a shit about anything nobody feels like it's worth caring about and the buyrates reflect that. You can attack him for a month, and he'll make jokes on the go-home show to make sure no-one thinks it's important. Or he can go on a six-month quest for a championship, but if he wins or loses it doesn't seem to matter, so why care enough to hand over money?

[denzel_maggiore]

All this Cena didn't give a shit about losing....

 

Firstly he was double counted out anyway so he lost before The Rock even stuck his nose in so didn't really make any difference that The Rock screwed him as The Rock re-started the match anyway.

 

So can see why he didn't give a shit, he lost in the first place so losing again made no real difference.

[Mr Tibbs]

I really dont see what all the fuss about Cenas reaction is? He explained it at the beginning of the promo, the match was a draw, Rock teased Cena by restarting it, then screwing Cena, so logically who you call out? Miz or Rock? Cena blew his chance by getting counted out!

 

All this Cena didn't give a shit about losing....

 

Firstly he was double counted out anyway so he lost before The Rock even stuck his nose in so didn't really make any difference that The Rock screwed him as The Rock re-started the match anyway.

 

So can see why he didn't give a shit, he lost in the first place so losing again made no real difference.

 

What the Fuck are you 2 dip-shits blabbing on about! Of course he should fucking care! The WWE title is supposed to be the pinnicle of the profession. I don't care how many times he has won it, as I have stated before, what he went through to get the shot meant that the WWE title was important to him.

 

Of course it made a difference that the rock screwed him. Manchester Und draw with Chelsea in an FA cup replay. The referee starts extra time and screws Man Utd by awarding the most un-just penelty. Chelsea score and win the match. Do you this Alex Ferguson is going to be smiling, telling jokes, and waving to the crowd! Of course not, he's going to be pissed at the man who screwed him over! He's going to un-leash hell on the ref. Just like the Rock did, he didn't get the job done and was counted out, fair enough, no need for anger (except for at himself).

 

But when the Rock re-starts the match giving him a second chance, he is not given the opportunity to get the job done fairly. He's screwed and pinned, his chance is gone. His quest that he has spent the last 3 months pursuing is gone. Who do you blame, the Miz, no he took the opportunity he was given. It's the Rock. Who has spent the last month saying you wern't in his league, you where a joke. He didn't give you the chance to prove yourself. Cnea should have been a volcano on Monday, spitting venum and wanting this man for WM 28.

 

That's just the way I think. But, that's not to everyones taste!