UFC 129: St Pierre vs Shields Discussion Thread

[darepool]

Christ. Poor bastard.

 

Really fun show even if the main event was a bit dull. It had a big fight feel to it and it's rare to see GSP in peril so I didn't think it was too bad.

Did Joe Rogan really say that Shields once lost 20lbs in ONE DAY? How the fuck is that possible?

That's what most MMA fighters do. Losing a stone + in fluids isn't an unusual story. The day of the fight the fighter can be 10-20 pounds heavier than what he weighed in at once he has rehydrated himself properly.

[Bus Surfer]

Ben Fowlkes eight ways of looking at GSP's win. The eye injury, GSP not finishing etc

 

GSP vs. Nick Diaz is now the biggest (only?) welterweight title fight the UFC can make.

It's not that he's run out of credible challengers. Carlos Condit, for instance, could still be an interesting challenger. It's just that, after yet another disappointing decision, convincing fans to pay for the next GSP fight will be a challenge. A superfight with Anderson Silva would probably do it, but that's a ways off, if it happens at all. The champion-versus-champion nature of a GSP-Diaz is the only thing at 170 pounds that would sufficiently energize the mainstream fan base. With Diaz's style

[Supremo]

Despite the dull main event (which you can't really blame GSP for, considering the extent of the eye injury) I thought this was a tremendous show and definitely a contender for pay per view of the year. The stadium looked amazing and they didn't seem to lose anywhere near the amount of atmosphere that WWE lose when they put Wrestlemania in those types of buildings.

 

Sad to see Randy lose, but it was a pipe dream to expect any other result. Ridiculous kick from Machida. All this stuff involving Segal is hilarious.

 

Aldo vs. Hominick was incredible. Reminiscent of Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen, it was filled to the brim with drama and I was on the edge of my seat throughout. At first it looked like it'd be quick night, with Aldo looking leagues above in terms of ability, but as the fight continued and the weight cut obviously played a huge part in tiring out Aldo, I was convinced we might see the babyface come-back. Absolutely insane of them to let Mark continue fighting after he got that hematoma, but it all just added to the drama and I was gripped by the end of round five. I scored the fight for Aldo, but felt the judges were pretty harsh in some of their scores. Hominick definitely won a round or two. Still, he made a star out of himself in this fight and definitely made a life-long fan out of me. Seems like a really cool guy, too.

 

I feel bad for St. Pierre. He obviously wants to finish guys, it's all he seems to ever talk about during the build up and in post-fight interviews, but it constantly alludes him, mostly due to bad luck. It's not his fault Dan Hardy has arms made of rubber, or that Koscheck can fight through a broken face, or that he got blinded in the middle of taking Jake Shields apart, and it seems unfair on him for people to bitch and moan. If he wasn't trying for the finish that'd be one thing, but did you see those swinging right hooks he was throwing towards Jake's face? That's not a man trying to out-point his opponents.

 

However, the most note worthy moment of the evening was when Rory Mcdonald, seemingly possessed by the ghost of Chris Benoit, threw three of the coolest German Suplexes of all time, fucking destroying Nate Diaz in an absolutely amazing performance. A fantastic display and it was a massive shame they didn't manage to put that fight on the pay per view, as it needed to be seen to be believed, particularly the final suplex when Nate landed on his head. Awesome.

 

Actually, that's something I was going to make mention of regarding the Spike prelims. Normally I don't bother watching the prelims, but being so excited for this show I downloaded them whilst I waited for someone to upload the pay per view onto Rapidshare and I was blown away, not only by Rory's fight, but by how brilliant they were at selling the pay per view. I know comparing WWE to the UFC isn't the most popular of things to do, but the last five minutes of the prelims was like night and day in terms of how both companies make their pay per views seem unmissable. Here, on the go-home show, you had Dana White and Joe Rogan marking out like kids on Christmas morning, going fucking nuts about how excited they were and it rubbed off on you as a viewer to such a degree that I can't fathom how anybody watching couldn't have ordered the show. In contrast, on the go-home RAW before pay per views you've got the WWE commentators acting like emotion-less robots, barely acting like they give a shit. I mean, if the people in the company aren't passionate or excited about the upcoming show, then why should we be? And by contrast, when Dana White is shouting his head off, with Joe Rogan's eyes looking like they're going to explode out of his head, it's impossible to not get pumped yourself. I'm not saying it's the biggest reason as to why WWE is getting obliterated on pay per view, but it's definitely a contributing factor.

 

Christ. Poor bastard.

 

Really fun show even if the main event was a bit dull. It had a big fight feel to it and it's rare to see GSP in peril so I didn't think it was too bad.

 

Did Joe Rogan really say that Shields once lost 20lbs in ONE DAY? How the fuck is that possible?

basically by sweating out all the water in your body, it aint healthy.

It all depends on how you rehydrate. If done right it works very effectively.

 

He didn't say it wasn't effective. He said it wasn't healthy, which it isn't. It's fucking stupid and unnecessarily dangerous, regardless of how you rehydrate.

[Egg Shen]

but the last five minutes of the prelims was like night and day in terms of how both companies make their pay per views seem unmissable. Here, on the go-home show, you had Dana White and Joe Rogan marking out like kids on Christmas morning

 

yeh, fucking brilliant. They do that at the end of every Spike! broadcast, they do it as the pre-PPV video is playing in the arena which is f'n loud, that's why they are shouting to be heard, it's always great though. Gets me fucking pumped.

[Ghostface1982]

Despite the dull main event (which you can't really blame GSP for, considering the extent of the eye injury) I thought this was a tremendous show and definitely a contender for pay per view of the year. The stadium looked amazing and they didn't seem to lose anywhere near the amount of atmosphere that WWE lose when they put Wrestlemania in those types of buildings.

 

Sad to see Randy lose, but it was a pipe dream to expect any other result. Ridiculous kick from Machida. All this stuff involving Segal is hilarious.

 

Aldo vs. Hominick was incredible. Reminiscent of Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen, it was filled to the brim with drama and I was on the edge of my seat throughout. At first it looked like it'd be quick night, with Aldo looking leagues above in terms of ability, but as the fight continued and the weight cut obviously played a huge part in tiring out Aldo, I was convinced we might see the babyface come-back. Absolutely insane of them to let Mark continue fighting after he got that hematoma, but it all just added to the drama and I was gripped by the end of round five. I scored the fight for Aldo, but felt the judges were pretty harsh in some of their scores. Hominick definitely won a round or two. Still, he made a star out of himself in this fight and definitely made a life-long fan out of me. Seems like a really cool guy, too.

 

I feel bad for St. Pierre. He obviously wants to finish guys, it's all he seems to ever talk about during the build up and in post-fight interviews, but it constantly alludes him, mostly due to bad luck. It's not his fault Dan Hardy has arms made of rubber, or that Koscheck can fight through a broken face, or that he got blinded in the middle of taking Jake Shields apart, and it seems unfair on him for people to bitch and moan. If he wasn't trying for the finish that'd be one thing, but did you see those swinging right hooks he was throwing towards Jake's face? That's not a man trying to out-point his opponents.

 

However, the most note worthy moment of the evening was when Rory Mcdonald, seemingly possessed by the ghost of Chris Benoit, threw three of the coolest German Suplexes of all time, fucking destroying Nate Diaz in an absolutely amazing performance. A fantastic display and it was a massive shame they didn't manage to put that fight on the pay per view, as it needed to be seen to be believed, particularly the final suplex when Nate landed on his head. Awesome.

 

Actually, that's something I was going to make mention of regarding the Spike prelims. Normally I don't bother watching the prelims, but being so excited for this show I downloaded them whilst I waited for someone to upload the pay per view onto Rapidshare and I was blown away, not only by Rory's fight, but by how brilliant they were at selling the pay per view. I know comparing WWE to the UFC isn't the most popular of things to do, but the last five minutes of the prelims was like night and day in terms of how both companies make their pay per views seem unmissable. Here, on the go-home show, you had Dana White and Joe Rogan marking out like kids on Christmas morning, going fucking nuts about how excited they were and it rubbed off on you as a viewer to such a degree that I can't fathom how anybody watching couldn't have ordered the show. In contrast, on the go-home RAW before pay per views you've got the WWE commentators acting like emotion-less robots, barely acting like they give a shit. I mean, if the people in the company aren't passionate or excited about the upcoming show, then why should we be? And by contrast, when Dana White is shouting his head off, with Joe Rogan's eyes looking like they're going to explode out of his head, it's impossible to not get pumped yourself. I'm not saying it's the biggest reason as to why WWE is getting obliterated on pay per view, but it's definitely a contributing factor.

 

Christ. Poor bastard.

 

Really fun show even if the main event was a bit dull. It had a big fight feel to it and it's rare to see GSP in peril so I didn't think it was too bad.

 

Did Joe Rogan really say that Shields once lost 20lbs in ONE DAY? How the fuck is that possible?

basically by sweating out all the water in your body, it aint healthy.

It all depends on how you rehydrate. If done right it works very effectively.

 

He didn't say it wasn't effective. He said it wasn't healthy, which it isn't. It's fucking stupid and unnecessarily dangerous, regardless of how you rehydrate.

People have been doing it for years without many major incidents. It's relatively safe if you rehydrate properly. Nowadays it's a science, fighters can come into a fight better hydrated than they were before the cut now.

 

The main worry is lack of fluid around the brain due to dehydration, then you've got your muscle tears and strains and other injuries top level athletes deal with anyway. Weight cutting gets a bad rap, especially in America where the college and high school wrestlers take it too far then end up doing damage to themselves due to bad cutting techniques.

[wandshogun09]

 

John Makdessi's spinning backfist KO of Kyle Watson

[wandshogun09]

Was just thinking about what a crazy night it was for finishes, on one night we got

 

a spinning backfist KO

a flying triangle

Vladdy's 20 second KO

Menjivar's standing elbow KO

and a fucking crane kick KO from Machida

 

nuts, the most awesome night of finishes in MMA history. All that plus the classic Aldo/Hominick title fight.

[MoChatra]

The reason why Randy Couture's boring fights were never as badly received as GSP's boring fights is because Randy was often the underdog in his boring fights. This then created more intrigue and unpredictability about those contests, which in turn had fans more engrossed in them than boring fights involving GSP (who is usually very dominant).

 

GSP is and always has been a boring fighter. Part of the reason for that is because he's so superior to his opponents. He's a very smart, shrewd fighter who doesn't like to take risks (hence ducking out of a fight with Anderson Silva until he feels the middleweight champ is past his prime, at which point he'll be up for it), and that's been the case for years. With GSP, you should know what to expect, so being disappointed that he had a boring fight - irrespective of the specific reasons why in the case of his Sheilds fight- is a bit pointless.

 

As for the show, I really enjoyed it. There were no fight of the year contenders but the featherweight title bout was immensely enjoyable and there were many great finishes. I just love Sensei Seagal; you have to see his hilarious interview with Ariel from after the show. Top man.

[jimufctna24]

The reason why Randy Couture's boring fights were never as badly received as GSP's boring fights is because Randy was often the underdog in his boring fights. This then created more intrigue and unpredictability about those contests, which in turn had fans more engrossed in them than boring fights involving GSP (who is usually very dominant).

 

GSP is and always has been a boring fighter. Part of the reason for that is because he's so superior to his opponents. He's a very smart, shrewd fighter who doesn't like to take risks (hence ducking out of a fight with Anderson Silva until he feels the middleweight champ is past his prime, at which point he'll be up for it), and that's been the case for years. With GSP, you should know what to expect, so being disappointed that he had a boring fight - irrespective of the specific reasons why in the case of his Sheilds fight- is a bit pointless.

 

As for the show, I really enjoyed it. There were no fight of the year contenders but the featherweight title bout was immensely enjoyable and there were many great finishes. I just love Sensei Seagal; you have to see his hilarious interview with Ariel from after the show. Top man.

I have to disagree on that

 

GSP from 2005-2007 was never in a boring fight, lets take a look

 

Mayhem - enjoyable 3 rounds

 

Trigg - Made him look like a ametur which was impressive at the time, ended quick as well

 

Sherk - Agreesive TKO

 

BJ Penn 1st fight - A engrossing back and forth brawl

 

Hughes - TKO was a passing of the torch moment

 

All these fights GSP threw caution to the wind and was much more agressive, it was only threw Greg Jackson and after the Serra TKO he became more conservative using his wrestling and safety forst approach more

 

He is a boring fighter in many ways now, but he hasnt always been

[wandshogun09]

I thought his fight with Fitch was good too to be fair. His last few fights haven't been that good but I don't think he's that boring to watch in all honesty. For me it's just that all the other champs are so exciting it kinda diminishes his performances a bit. Not everyone can do the shit Anderson or Aldo come out with.

 

It's more GSP's personality, or maybe lack of I'm bored with. He seems like one of the nicest guys in the sport but he gets so much more coverage than anyone else. 3 Primetime series and a season of TUF in the last 2 years. I still watch cause I can't miss it but I do feel like I've heard everything I wanna hear about him now. Give someone else a look in.

[Barearse]

How can the Aldo/Homnick fight have ever been a 50-43???? Did one judge really not give that last round to Homnick? I mean, what the hell was he watching? I know it''s a mute point in terms of winning the overall war but really, what does a man have to do to win a round?!?!?!

 

MMA judging sucks

[METAL ON METAL]

How can the Aldo/Homnick fight have ever been a 50-43???? Did one judge really not give that last round to Homnick? I mean, what the hell was he watching? I know it''s a mute point in terms of winning the overall war but really, what does a man have to do to win a round?!?!?!

 

MMA judging sucks

 

No it was a mistake, Buffer was handed wrong scores (I don't know how that happens though) by the commission - they apologised to him afterwards.

 

The actual scores were 48-45, 48-46, 49-46.

[wandshogun09]

 

Rory MacFuckinDonald

[David]

It would appear that a champion vs champion superfight could be a real possibility;

 

Is Strikeforce welterweight champion Nick Diaz prepared to drop boxing to fight UFC welterweight champ Georges St-Pierre?

 

The answer is yes. A qualified yes, trainer and manager Cesar Gracie today told MMAjunkie.com.

 

The desire is there, he said. The storyline is there. The contractual hurdles? Not an issue, really, since the UFC purchased Strikeforce this past March. But there is one issue.

 

Gracie said Diaz is contractually allowed to box and is well into his preparation for a match against a high-profile pugilist, which could be former IBF super-middleweight champion Jeff Lacy and could come in the fall.

 

So Diaz needs to be persuaded to put down the 16-ounce gloves. Will a meeting with UFC brass change that?

 

Perhaps.

 

This past week, UFC president Dana White said he will fly to Diaz's hometown of Stockton, Calif., presumably for a heart-to-heart with the chronically brash fighter on his future. Talk of a superfight between St-Pierre and Anderson Silva apparently has cooled following the champ's methodical dismantling of Jake Shields in the headliner of this past Saturday's UFC 129 event, and the idea of fight between the Strikeforce welterweight champion and the UFC champion has come into the picture.

 

Diaz is riding high following a recent explosive victory over Paul Daley in the third title defense of his Strikeforce belt.

 

Of a potential St-Pierre vs. Diaz showdown, White said this past Saturday, "It's an interesting fight."

 

Diaz predicted his longtime training partner Shields would beat St-Pierre and was cageside during the fight. The day prior at weigh-ins, White said Diaz and younger brother, UFC 129 fighter Nate Diaz, yelled obscenities at the crowd on their way backstage.

 

But that's par for the course for the brothers, who get consistent praise from White at the same time he laments their PR problem.

 

"They're unique individuals, those two," White said. "I like them. I like their attitudes. I like their styles. You've got to play the game a little bit, please. And please don't flip off fans and threaten to kick everyone's asses."

 

Diaz previously has attacked St-Pierre's rise in the UFC and said a fight with the welterweight champ is the only one in which he's interested. But he abruptly switched directions after his win over Daley when Gracie announced his fighter was closing in on a professional boxing match that was allowed by his new Strikeforce contract.

 

Shields' impending victory was also cited as a reason Diaz sought out boxing. But now that his prediction for a Shields win has been proven untrue, the stage is set for a change of heart.

 

"Obviously, there's a storyline behind it," Gracie said. "Shields just lost a decision, and Nick wants some revenge for that. Nick is very confident that he can defeat St-Pierre.

 

"He's a guy that could press the action against GSP and not let GSP dictate the pace. GSP has been a great champ, and hats off to him. But there has been criticism that he's not really taking risks. With Nick, you have the ultimate risk-taker. He will fight you at your game. He throws caution to the wind, really, because he's more interested in beating you up than winning on points. I think that makes for an intriguing matchup between the two."

 

But can it happen? Diaz is not only a Strikeforce fighter but a champion, and White previously said that he would not do crossover fights between promotions, regardless of the fact that UFC parent company Zuffa LLC now owns both properties.

 

Gracie thinks Zuffa can.

 

"Look, (UFC executive) Lorenzo (Fertitta) can do whatever he wants at this point," he said. "The guy signing the checks is the guy making the decisions. There's a couple of roadblocks, and I think the least of which is Nick's contract with Strikeforce. That would be a roadblock if we chose not to take the fight against Georges St-Pierre.

 

"But obviously, that wouldn't happen. The biggest thing is that Nick's Strikeforce contract dictates that he can box in 2011, and we've gone pretty far into that process. It's still a work in process, but we're just about there."

 

To reverse the process, Gracie said, is going to take convincing. And by convincing, he means a good deal.

 

"It would take Lorenzo and Dana to really come into this and show us how it could happen," Gracie said. "It would have to make financial sense for everybody. So, we're waiting just like everyone else to see what they have in mind, and I'm more than happy to listen to their suggestions."

The question I ask is, what happens if GSP beats Diaz? The Strikeforce strap won't be on the line, but such a result would devalue the title terribly.

[Egg Shen]

i think Dana wouldn't be too bothered about a UFC champion creaming a Strikeforce champion...if it goes the other way is the problem.