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The moment you thought about quitting wrestling


IANdrewDiceClay

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In scripted sports you get to pick who you want to make a star out of.

You say that like there is more than one scripted "sport"!

 

You can handpick the super charismatic guy, you can single out the incredibly likable or hatable bloke who'll connect on a certain level with the fans, you can have all your criteria checked and alligned before puling the trigger.

When has that ever actually worked? How many sure fire hits have gone absolutely nowhere. The criteria specifying who catches on in pro-wrestling is nothing like that simple.

 

It raises their profile, sure, but it doesn't make them a star.

What counts as a star though? You mention Machida, Rashad and Sonnen. I wouldn't class any as a star on the level of GSP, Silva, Couture, etc. Those UFC previews are incredible and you're right, they make everything and everyone seem a level above what they are but if you can take a guy and make him a big deal in an hour, then he was a pretty big deal anyway. They don't take someone that no-one has heard of and make him a star in 6 months. There is a hell of a lot goes into an MMA career before you even hit the UFC. Just being on the card means you are deserving and legitimate. The starting point is way higher.

 

I still agree that wrestling could do more but it isn't easy. It's difficult to write characters that people catch on to. If writing stuff is so damn easy, why has no-one made Matt Damon a fucking action hero?

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In scripted sports you get to pick who you want to make a star out of.

You say that like there is more than one scripted "sport"!

 

You can handpick the super charismatic guy, you can single out the incredibly likable or hatable bloke who'll connect on a certain level with the fans, you can have all your criteria checked and alligned before puling the trigger.

When has that ever actually worked? How many sure fire hits have gone absolutely nowhere. The criteria specifying who catches on in pro-wrestling is nothing like that simple.

 

It raises their profile, sure, but it doesn't make them a star.

What counts as a star though?

 

Someone who sells tickets, sells merchandise, and generates column inches.

 

You look at how boxing has struggled to produce stars. It's not like people aren't amassing good fight records, it's just that as a profession they've lost the knack of making people care about the fighters and the fights. They've failed, IMO, to learn from either WWE or UFC.

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Tiger Rick is spot on in what he's saying. Another thing is that to the casual audience alot of it is who wins is who's the best, because of UFC's "these lads are real" type audience. So an impressive performance is out of UFC's hands. If a boring cunt with pasty skin called Clive got a shot at Brock Lesnar and knocked him out, he's a star. If a boring cunt with a hairy chest and tight little shorts beat John Cena, I'm rolling my eyes and seeing whats happening on Eastenders. UFC being a hot, relevately new and real thing has an advantage over a sport that has never been respected and never been appealing to many audiences like UFC is with wrestling and boxing followers. Saying that wrestling doesnt do themselves any favours because there are countless situations where they have shot themselves in the foot due to ego or whatever, and failed to run as hard with their wrestlers or crushed their momentum. The Shane McMahon/Randy Orton thing being a prime example. I just find it easier for UFC create stars than WWE.

Edited by Ian_hitmanhart
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Its the case of money aint it? WWE has to invest money in their chosen guy and hope it pays off, I think they tried to do this with Jericho years ago but it never really worked out so TripleH got his Timmy Mallet out and ended him, they did the same for Cena but it paid off.

 

That and you probably have people in the back questioning is this guy the right guy to lead the company etc, which just leads to more if's and but's.

 

WWE have actually tired to push alot of people, but its like they take a guy straight out of midcard into mainevent and then just shit on him and leave out to dry, swagger comes to mind, I really thought WWE were going to push that guy, but again same old story.

 

The question is what makes a guy over, more victories? it can help for sure but I dont think thats it, the wrestler has to connect with people, Hogan the all american superhero someone thats stands up for whats right, Austin screw the rules sick and tried of taking shit off my boss, so i'll kick his ass, who hasnt ever thought that about one of their bosses? you see something that connects with fans is the key I think.

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Fuck, in recent months it's been a bonus for the UFC if the guys they needed to make a star out of could even speak English! And you're telling me it's easier for them? Bollocks.

What do you think the WWE got wrong with the Vladimir Kozlov push, out of interest? If it's that easy to make a star in wrestling, why didn't the big hard Russian fella who beat everyone for six months become one?

 

Not to downplay what UFC does, because they are very good at building stars in their sport, but it's apples and oranges, for the schedules if nothing else. UFC are making stars out of real fighters who fight once every few months, WWE are (well, should be) making stars who perform on TV every week. UFC has a roster that is bigger and way less exposed. The MMA star who gets battered this month doesn't have to sell a PPV next month. He'll disappear for five months, then return for his next fight with the big "can he come back from the loss?" hype. In wrestling, if you sacrifice Cena, Orton and Undertaker this month to Swagger, Daniel Bryan and Wade Barrett, who's selling next month's PPV?

 

WWE have proven to be total fuck-ups when it comes to making new proper stars in the last half a decade, but it's not as easy a road as you're making out. The cash cows have to be protected to some extent so they can keep doing the frequent business. The fella who mentioned the popularity of reality TV brought up a good point, it's a lot easier to get the viewer to care about "real people" than created characters. And Ian's analogy about someone beating Lesnar and someone beating Cena is spot on.

 

It was bad enough they were making out that a guy who doesn't want to be discriminated against because of hysteria was a heel, and it was even worse when they ran the UT angle, effectively saying: "Don't believe any of them - they're all terrorists."

holden-mcneil-banky-edwards.jpg

Well isn't that true?

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Unfortunatly Im finding myself stop training in wrestling which can be summed up in three letter

 

ufc07.jpg

 

I can not afford too much a week, so its either MMA training or Wrestling. Plus wrestling training is on a sunday which I often work. Daft as it sounds I get less injured at MMA training than wrestling.

 

Wouldnt dream of being a professional MMA fighter I'd just enjoy learning, how to protect myself and fight back if needed. Maybe a Amateur fight if I build up the confidence skill and tallent and with easy access to the gym and boxing and boxercise lesson all free from work its helping me kick wrestling in the head

Edited by ajmcstyles
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Put me in the JBL column. He got me to stop watching SmackDown even though I couldnt quite turn my back on Raw.

 

Don't give a toss how good a charater he was, his matches were gash. As in, "I don't want to watch this rubbish" boring shit. And, as pointed out more eloquently by previous posters, the point he was anointed a main eventer, he was FUCKING NOBODY. I never got past the "It's Bradshaw." He was a jumped up not-even-midcarder pushed far beyond his ability, far too quickly - incredible considering his eight years in the company during which he showed no aptitude for a successful singles career - and anyone who wants to say "oh but he was great at making you want to see him get beat" really needs to revisit the lukewarm response to his dethroning by Cena at WM21 - no one really seemed to give a toss.

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It was bad enough they were making out that a guy who doesn't want to be discriminated against because of hysteria was a heel, and it was even worse when they ran the UT angle, effectively saying: "Don't believe any of them - they're all terrorists."

holden-mcneil-banky-edwards.jpg

Well isn't that true?

 

Joking aside, I'm glad they were forced to stop it, quite frankly. Yes, it's wrestling, but it's not "only" wrestling - a lot of kids watch it, and it's not difficult to fill their heads with nonsense, especially if the parents are going along with it. With the political climate as volatile as it was back then, it was irresponsible of WWE to do it.

 

One of my best friends was a lifelong WWF/E fan - started off as a massive Bret Hart fan, went to Wembley in '92, and eventually became the biggest Triple H mark I know. Bought all the games he could for Megadrive and N64, bought loads of videos and DVDs, never went on the Internet, never watched anything from Japan, Mexico, Britain or the indies, didn't grow up watching WoS, didn't even watch WCW - he was WWE, through and through, and watched it until his mid-20s. He's also Muslim; he took one look at Hassan and the direction they were taking the character, particularly in the context of the general behaviour of the media of the time, as well as WWE's history of using its position as a jingoistic soap-box, and quit. He's not watched any wrestling since, and doesn't particularly want to - he doesn't want to give his money to McMahon, or anyone associated with him. When I've attempted to chat to him about wrestling like we used to, he just says he's not interested any more, and always cites the Hassan storyline as being the reason why.

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You can handpick the super charismatic guy, you can single out the incredibly likable or hatable bloke who'll connect on a certain level with the fans, you can have all your criteria checked and alligned before puling the trigger.

When has that ever actually worked? How many sure fire hits have gone absolutely nowhere. The criteria specifying who catches on in pro-wrestling is nothing like that simple.

I never said it was a guarunteed method of creating a star, but it's got a much higher ratio of success than what they're currently doing to make stars, which amasses to fuck all. If you pick a guy with charisma and talent, give him a genuine, proper push and it doesn't work, then at least you tried. But how many times have they actually done that? And I'm not talking about those half arse, fake pushes, I'm talking a proper push. It happens far too rarely. Deciding that there's a chance it won't work and so therefore never doing at all is a hundred times worse than giving it a genuine go and then every now and then failing. "It's hard to do, and I might not succeed, so I won't try at all," is hardly a mind set that's going to create changes or progress. If you want Nexus to be stars then fucking push them as such, properly.

 

It raises their profile, sure, but it doesn't make them a star.

What counts as a star though? You mention Machida, Rashad and Sonnen. I wouldn't class any as a star on the level of GSP, Silva, Couture, etc.

A star is a star is a star. You know, someone who can sell tickets, generate buys and garner publicity at the top of your card. A money player. Sure, somebody like GSP is on a level above most people not called Brock Lesnar in terms of drawing ability and popularity, but otherwise I'd say the other five guys you mentioned are at the very least on par with one another. They're all stars. You could main event with them and do an above average to very good buy rate depending on their opponent and the story you're telling. In fact, if recent numbers are anything to go by then both Machida and Rashad have at the very least surprassed Randy in terms of drawing ability. Machida's coming off a PPV bout with Shogun that did a very impressive 520,000 buys, while Rashad just did over a million with Rampage! Randy's not done anything close to that in ages. Even when everyone expected Rashad to bomb on PPV main eventing against Thiago Silva in January it still did a surprisingly high number, which Couture didn't manage to match the following month against Mark Coleman.

 

I guess it's an intangible thing in some ways, but if you've followed either business for any length of time then it's really easy to sense when somebody is either becoming or has become a star in a single, solitary moment. Brock Lesnar wiping Hulk Hogan's blood on his chest. Dave Batista giving Triple H the thumbs down. In UFC that recent Chris Leben fight with Akiyama is the perfect example. Coming out of that fight there was no question about it, after threatening to do it for years Chris Leben had finally made himself a star. Granted, you probably couldn't headline with him just yet, unless the production team do a really good job the next time he's got a fight upcoming, but he's well on his way. That's a point as well; in the UFC there's levels of stardom. You can recognise guys who're coming up, or are on the cusp of becoming a star. In WWE you're either John Cena and company, or you're a chump. There's no middle ground where guys are warming up and building momentum.

 

Those UFC previews are incredible and you're right, they make everything and everyone seem a level above what they are but if you can take a guy and make him a big deal in an hour, then he was a pretty big deal anyway. They don't take someone that no-one has heard of and make him a star in 6 months.

Yes they do. In fact; I'll give you two people they've done it with in the past six months; Shane Carwin and Chael Sonnen. Sure, they'd been on previous shows, perhaps even putting in good performances, but from a stardom standpoint nobody bar the hardcore fans had a fucking clue who either guy was because sans having forgettable fights in the middle of cards they hadn't been focussed on at all. Hell, I'm a huge MMA fan and until Chael beat Nate Marquardt in February I don't think I'd have even been able to pick him out a line-up. And even after he was announced as facing Anderson next, I still wasn't that familiar with him, and yet by the time that fight rolled around he was fucking massive and probably my favourite character and promo in all of MMA and pro-wrestling. He's pretty much my hero at this point. He's amazing. Shane Carwin's the same. He'd beaten loads of guys in prelims, but it was only leading into the Frank Mir fight in March that he really appeared on my radar properly, thanks to them starting to focus on him in highlight reels and Countdown specials, and then he became a fully fledged star by the time his fight with Brock came up. Having a couple of casual fans for friends really hammers this home too. Two weeks before that Chael Sonnen vs. Anderson Silva fight my friends weren't even sure if they wanted to come round and watch it. "Who's he?" they asked when I told them Anderson's opponent. Come fight time though everyone was buzzing thanks to the way in which the UFC, with help from Chael's incredible mic work, made him a star.

 

There is a hell of a lot goes into an MMA career before you even hit the UFC. Just being on the card means you are deserving and legitimate. The starting point is way higher.

All being on the card earlier in your career really does is allow the UFC to collect footage of you looking good in order to eventually use it, should you become a main eventer. There's absolutely no reason why the WWE couldn't do the same. Shane Carwin became a star because they showed clips of all those prelim fights he had where he knocked the shit out of everyone. What would stop WWE from doing the same and introducing someone as an incredibly talented fighter who destroys everyone in seconds, showing clips of him from FCW? There's nothing whatsoever to stop them from doing it, but they don't, they bring the talented guys in and go out of their way to make sure the fans think they're losers.

 

NXT every Tuesday night pretty much highlights everything that's wrong with pro-wrestling and how they handle new guys and fail to make stars. It's absolute gash.

 

Tiger Rick is spot on in what he's saying. Another thing is that to the casual audience alot of it is who wins is who's the best, because of UFC's "these lads are real" type audience. So an impressive performance is out of UFC's hands. If a boring cunt with pasty skin called Clive got a shot at Brock Lesnar and knocked him out, he's a star. If a boring cunt with a hairy chest and tight little shorts beat John Cena, I'm rolling my eyes and seeing whats happening on Eastenders.

No he's not, as I've already explained using Frankie Edgar as an example. If all it took to become a star in the UFC was to beat another star then Frankie Edgar would be huge right now. BJ Penn is one of the UFC's biggest stars and biggest draws. He's just lost twice to Frankie Edgar. So, is Frankie a star now? No he's not. People still don't give a shit about him and it's almost cruel to watch press conferences where everyone pretty much ignores him, despite the fact that he's the champion. Nobody talks about how good Frankie is, they talk about what's happened to BJ to make him less invincible. Sure, to make Edgar a star they can now create a Countdown special that emphasises what an achievement it is to beat BJ Penn, and how talented and awesome he must be to have done it twice, with talking heads and highlight packages putting him over, but then that's no different to what WWE could do to make their own star. Put someone over John Cena clean, then harp on about it and make him a huge deal like when Triple H beat Cactus Jack. But they don't do that. They haven't done that in years. They have guys doing obstacle courses, falling over and looking like knobheads.

 

In wrestling, if you sacrifice Cena, Orton and Undertaker this month to Swagger, Daniel Bryan and Wade Barrett, who's selling next month's PPV?

Stars losing doesn't automatically stop them from being a star themselves. In fact, almost every historical example proves otherwise. You honestly believe that if John Cena lost clean to Wade Barrett on an upcoming pay per view that his stock would fall dramatically and he wouldn't draw the following month? Seriously? All it would do is raise Barret's stock ten fold, make a new star if they did it right and built on it correctly, giving John Cena and company a fresh guy to work with in the upcoming months and years.

 

Or, we can have Randy Orton vs. John Cena again. And again.

 

Fuck, in recent months it's been a bonus for the UFC if the guys they needed to make a star out of could even speak English! And you're telling me it's easier for them? Bollocks.

What do you think the WWE got wrong with the Vladimir Kozlov push, out of interest? If it's that easy to make a star in wrestling, why didn't the big hard Russian fella who beat everyone for six months become one?

Kozlov's push, like The Great Khali's push that came before it, was an example of one of two things. Either they're so stupid that they can't see beyond how tall somebody is and will simply push guys based on that, despite the fact that he's destined to fail for every other reason under the sun. Or, the option which I think is more believable is that those in power who don't want to see any long term changes on the top of the card handpick guys that they know won't succeed, give them the ball safe in the knowledge that it won't work, then use these instances as examples as to why guys who could make it aren't give the chance. I mean, fucking hell, think of all the guys who could've pinned The Undertaker clean since 2001. And the only one they let do it was the Great Khali. It's fucking retarded. These clumsy goofs who've got nothing going for them are given pushes, whilst guys who could actually make something of themselves are stuck in comedy segments and shitty three minute matches at the top of the first hour. That's what it boils down to; if we're honest, it's not WWE inability to make stars that's the problem, it's that they simply don't want to do it. They fuck with pushes, stop and start, only giving guys who'll never make it the chance to. You almost never see a guy who could make it being given the true chance to achieve his potential. It's always one or the other. And then by the time they do want to it it's way, way too late and that guy's already been pigeon holed as a chump who's done nothing for the past five years.

 

If The Rock and Stone Cold came round today then they'd first be introduced in NXT challenges that made them look like twats, then they'd be forced to spend a decade feuding over the Intercontinental Title in opening matches on Smackdown, then they'd be given a push for about a month, then it'd be pulled out from under them, rinse and repeat.

Edited by Supremo
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Deciding that there's a chance it won't work and so therefore never doing at all is a hundred times worse than giving it a genuine go and then every now and then failing. "It's hard to do, and I might not succeed, so I won't try at all," is hardly a mind set that's going to create changes or progress. If you want Nexus to be stars then fucking push them as such, properly.

But they don't have the ability to back up such a push. No-one does. I'm not saying that's not the fault of WWE, it's their development system that should get these guys ready after all, but you can surely see why they don't push these new guys to the moon, because none of them can back it up. Since Orton, Batista and Cena, how many guys who've got that level of ability have come through? Hardly any. They've got guys who can talk but not work well enough, guys who can talk well and work well but don't look great, etc. Shaemus is about the best guy to come through in the last 5 years and they've pushed him to the moon. He's still not that over.

 

It raises their profile, sure, but it doesn't make them a star.

What counts as a star though? You mention Machida, Rashad and Sonnen. I wouldn't class any as a star on the level of GSP, Silva, Couture, etc.

A star is a star is a star. You know, someone who can sell tickets, generate buys and garner publicity at the top of your card. A money player.

Sorry, I understand the general definition, it's just names like Sonnen and Machida confuse the issue. Those guys are over because of what they've done in the ring. You mention Rashad vs. Rampage. That sold of the back of the awesome exchanges on the Ultimate Fighter. UFC are putting real guys in real fights and letting real tension sell it. They aren't making it all up. Also, when you talk about selling tickets, you're on dodgy ground. UFC sells out shows like the WWF and WCW did in 1998. They didn't normally need to anounce a card. Plus you are talking about 1 or 2 cards a month, often stacked. They have very little TV to write either. I'm sure if the WWE had a coouple of preview shows and one PPV to write each month, that could be awesome too. UFC do an awesome job but it's still basically just reality TV.

 

Yes they do. In fact; I'll give you two people they've done it with in the past six months; Shane Carwin and Chael Sonnen. Sure, they'd been on previous shows, perhaps even putting in good performances, but from a stardom standpoint nobody bar the hardcore fans had a fucking clue who either guy was because sans having forgettable fights in the middle of cards they hadn't been focussed on at all. Hell, I'm a huge MMA fan and until Chael beat Nate Marquardt in February I don't think I'd have even been able to pick him out a line-up. And even after he was announced as facing Anderson next, I still wasn't that familiar with him, and yet by the time that fight rolled around he was fucking massive and probably my favourite character and promo in all of MMA and pro-wrestling. He's pretty much my hero at this point. He's amazing. Shane Carwin's the same. He'd beaten loads of guys in prelims, but it was only leading into the Frank Mir fight in March that he really appeared on my radar properly, thanks to them starting to focus on him in highlight reels and Countdown specials, and then he became a fully fledged star by the time his fight with Brock came up. Having a couple of casual fans for friends really hammers this home too. Two weeks before that Chael Sonnen vs. Anderson Silva fight my friends weren't even sure if they wanted to come round and watch it. "Who's he?" they asked when I told them Anderson's opponent. Come fight time though everyone was buzzing thanks to the way in which the UFC, with help from Chael's incredible mic work, made him a star.

Carwin is a fucking monster. He proved that when he murdered Gonzaga. All he needed was a big win. Sonnen looked excellent too against Dan Miller and Okami. No superstar, granted but his work was great. I'm not arguing with you about the job UFC do but I'll always argue that the starting point is much, much, much higher. The WWE are taking guys who have little experience, average ability and a good look and trying to convince people that they are great. The UFC are taking people who have proved that they have a really high skill level and are trying to convince people that they are great. Surely you can see the massive difference?

 

Perhaps the problem is that WWE don't like to admit to having a hierarchy. They don't like to introduce guys at the bottom rung and build them slowly, people lose interest in them too quickly. Also, pro-wrestling is very hard to do well. It takes a long time to be great (in most instances). While MMA has a lot of levels of complexity and ability, at the end of the day, you can either fight or you can't.

 

If The Rock and Stone Cold came round today then they'd first be introduced in NXT challenges that made them look like twats, then they'd be forced to spend a decade feuding over the Intercontinental Title in opening matches on Smackdown, then they'd be given a push for about a month, then it'd be pulled out from under them, rinse and repeat.

You mean The Rock and Stone Cold who's initial pushes absolutely fucking bombed?

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wrestlemania9b.jpg

 

Good call!

 

Indeed. That put more people I knew at the time off wrestling than any angle/moment/decision I've ever seen before or since. Honestly I would have thought it was just the area I was living but the combination of moving house so many times since and meeting people around the same age whose knowledge of wrestling ends around that same point and the last decade or so of being on the internet and the last seven or so years on here, the fact so many people point to it as when they stopped watching (at least for the time) or when all their friends stopped watching is incredible. Obviously it proved me wrong and I'd bet money there has never, ever, e-e-e-e-vah being a thread like this on here without it coming up at some point.

 

Obviously it didn't put me off since I'm still here, but it certainly seemed like I was certainly in the minority at the time.

 

I did stop following WCW as closely for a while after this...

 

There are no pictures that I can find, but this should give the game away

 

russodavid2.jpg

 

And didn't get back into it until the final months (which for my money were pretty good) but I can't blame it all on those title changes since my interest had been waning for a while by that point and most of the guys I liked had already jumped ship (Jericho, Raven, Benoit, Saturn, etc.), disappeared from TV (Hart, Savage, Hogan) or were blatantly phoning it in (Sting). The fact Russo was dumb enough to put the title on himself and a C-List actor just solidified my decision and I just decided there wasn't enough hours in the week left to keep watching everything WCW did. Considering it had been my favourite company since 1992 (with the exception of 1997, maybe) I'd say that took some doing. Sad as it might sound but in 1996-97 if I missed a show I'd actually be annoyed about it to the extent I wouldn't go out until after it had finished (this was when it was on 7 until 8, IIRC) or if I really to go to a mate's house/cinema/pub/wherever for a mate's birthday at that time I'd make sure I got it recorded for me. In 2000 if I missed one, I didn't care. That said there was no chance of me stopping on wrestling altogether at that point since I actually thought WWF's product was at its best around that time.

 

This is probably the only thing that came close:

 

I have a few:

 

Chris%20Benoit.jpg

 

Wrestling has always been a sleazy business and you could even say it's part of the appeal but I think that one just made a lot of people sit up and think for a little while if they really wanted to carry on watching.

 

Other than that one brief moment in time, to be honest most of the most common ones - Hornswoggle, PG ratings, John Cena, etc. - never made me think about giving up. The decline of actual wrestling around the world has made me less enthusiastic than I was in the past when at least if Nitro sucked you could change the channel to Raw, if WWF wasn't delivering there was always ECW, SMW or USWA, if the U.S. scene had gotten stale there was a thriving scene in Japan, etc. but I doubt there's one image that could sum it up. That even those things haven't made me give up makes me wonder what it would take for me to do so.

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Other than that one brief moment in time, to be honest most of the most common ones - Hornswoggle, PG ratings, John Cena, etc. - never made me think about giving up.

Aye, the ones I mentioned earlier -- Benoit winning the title, the endless HHH/HBK feud, and the Cryme Tyme vs Hart Dynasty rematches that lasted forever -- never made me think about "quitting" wrestling. The first two just stopped me watching Raw regularly for a while, and the Cryme Tyme/Harts stuff stopped me watching Superstars and made me skip about fifteen minutes of Smackdown a week.

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I wish I'd skipped most of those Michaels/Triple H matches instead of feeling like I had to watch all of whatever show they were on. :(

 

5 pages of people mentioning all kinds of shit with no critisism, then a few mentions of Cena lead to the people posting it being questioned for why they hate him and people summizing it's just because it's the cool thing to do.

 

I'm all for discussion and everything but a lot of people on here seem to dismiss anyone critisizing John Cena as someone doing it just to get a reaction.

 

Personally I find his matches hard to enjoy because his offence and his selling - so everything he does inside a wrestling ring - are so phony looking (something I've never said about any other WWE main eventer ever) that I can't suspend my disbelief, and I have the same problem with his promos. I love psychology in a match where the heel breaks down the babyface until he can muster up a comeback. That's probably the biggest critisism of Cena (and there are many), that he STILL hasn't grasped the concept that if somebody works for 10 minutes on your arm or leg you really shouldn't be running around or picking people up 2 minutes later.

So there is literally nothing about John Cena I enjoy watching.

 

... just kidding, I only don't like him because it's the cool thing to do.

 

I'm something of a Cena fan (I thought he was a shoe-in for 'wrestler of the year' in 2007 and by far the most consistent headliner in 2009 as well) and I disagree with pretty much everything you've said there, re. Cena's actual working ability (I even think he's a decent promo) but I do think you raise a valid point: If people dislike Cena that much and he's such a big part of the product then I'd say that's a perfectly valid reason for them to jack it in. Same with Triple H a few years ago (or even the internet fans who were moaning about it all being about Austin/McMahon in 1999). His fans can defend his actual matches, promos, angles, etc. as much as they want but if someone doesn't find any of them entertaining and they are a big part of the show then I can see why it would make them quit. The "gave up because wrestling could never get any better" is a bit of a puzzler but its already been discussed but as far as criticising/commenting in other posts I actually found some of them interesting/not things I'd expect...

 

unmasked-rey-o.gif

 

Seriously? I actually find that the most interesting one I've seen so far since as much as it was criticised at the time, I never thought of it as something that would make people quit the product (I admit I maybe underestimating Rey's popularity). Where you just particularly big Rey fan or was it WCW's booking in general that put you off?

 

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and in the same vein:

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Im not going to post it but that brings HORRIBLE memories of the Royal Rumble 2000 bikini content if anyone can remember that, she was teh fecking reason PPV's were delayed by 50 minutes in the UK in 2000

 

As bad as those were - and I actually watched Rumble 2000 with a large group (not all wrestling fans) in my University's chaplaincy so I can understand where you're coming from - I never would have quit WWF over them since I thought the rest of the product was starting to get really good around that time. That Royal Rumble 2000 had Cactus/Triple H Streetfight a few minutes later which restored any faith I'd lost.

 

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Only my love for the Armstrongs kept me going. Thank fuck they pulled Brad out quickly.

 

Well that just shows can like the same people, look at the same thing and still see it from complete opposite ends. As a fan of Brad Armstrong, I was actually pleased he was getting something resembling a push! In 1998 if someone had told me Brad would be involved in a celebrity angle the following summer, I'd have laughed at them. So whilst I knew he was realistically just there to carry the load, I was hoping the angle would keep going so him and Rey would get some PPV time out of it. I actually thought a cool old school guy like ol' B.A. getting the celeb rub (even in a crap angle with a rapper I'd never heard of) was pretty cool at the time.

 

That said I can see why you thought about quitting wrestling in 1999 (although I wouldn't have, since there were too many characters I liked and wanted to see how things would turn out for them) whilst the quality of the actual wrasslin' over in WWF was constantly getting torn apart, ECW was past it's peak and WCW had seemingly taken too many wrong turns. Just interesting that The No Limit Soldiers was the straw that (almost?) broke the camel's back.

 

Disgraceful, Hassan was brilliant. It doesn't matter if he had any 'decent' matches or not - when Santino was at his funniest and you wanted to see what he would come out with each week you knew you were never going to get a decent match, same with plenty of other people. It's all about character and he was different, he was a step up from the typical anti-American character, he was relevant for the time and he and Davari had perfectly fine arguments to make. And I always love JR almost exploding at the mere thought of the guy. With the reaction he was getting outside WWE it's disappointing they didn't give him a World title shot before they ditched him.

 

Even if he was fighting "Tom Hanks with the Aids"? Ah but what about the people who didn't find Santino at his "peak" funny - there were a few of them on here in those days as the weekly posts from Mr. Seven and JLM in the weekly Raw threads proved. For the people who didn't find his gimmick funny or enjoy his matches, he offered nothing. Same for the people who found Hassan's gimmick offensive and thought his matches sucked.

 

What could be better than a guy who murdered his family and a drug addict winning the world titles. Jesus.

Shit, you're right. Now I'm going to have to hate every single wrestler because they might kill someone in 3 years time.

 

If we all didn't watch wrestling shows that featured guys who are drug addicts/had serious drug problems you'd be left with a pretty limited selection (no more WWF, WCW, WCCW, USWA or ECW for a start).

Looks like I'm going to have to trade in everything I have covering the Von Erich/Freebirds feud (in case Kerry, Kevin, Michael, Terry, etc. were high that match) for a copy of Lance Storm's Greatest Promos. I would have gone for Lance Storm's Greatest Matches but I daren't even watch those since ECW and WCW were full of people with well-known substance abuse problems. :(

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