General politics discussion thread

[David]

Voted politician of the year in 2007 by the Dutch political press.

 

Good arrows on that.

 

Also, the BNP site have been counting down to the Question Time show with articles such as this;

 

Question: What does the BNP have to do to be invited onto the BBC

Edited October 16, 2009 by hardcore_harry

[patiirc]

lost of stuff about ebony and black madonnsas

 

 

I would assume that the above is simplifying the arguement a bit. It could have something to do with the conversion or attempt to convert Moors around the Granada region and stragglers in Europe to RC. Even the Wiki page says the ebony argument is well, a bit bollocks.

 

I may come back and type more about this later but Ive got to go out

[The King Of Swing]

It's hard to believe that Johnson was at one time being touted as the next PM when everyone believed that NL were about to pull a Thatcher on Brown.

 

The guy made a total plonker out of himself when he resorted to bringing up two corrupt UKIP members (I think almost every MP that has had a spat with UKIP has tried that one now) that as pointed were actually kicked out of the party unlike the current batch of corrupt twats who only resign occasionaly.

 

Anyone else getting tired of people always attempting to dump UKIP into the same pile as the BNP? I don't even vote UKIP (did come close one time though) but it always comes across as a paper thin attempt at smearing the party when people play the racist card against them and as soon as it is pointed out that they actually have black and asian representatives everyone shuts up.

[Carbomb]

I don't have a problem with UKIP because of their racism. I have a problem with them because they're clearly a party founded on greed - it's rather apt that their logo is a pound sign.

[JNLister]

I'd like to see Nigel Farage be interviewed with the condition that he's not allowed to use the word "Europe".

[David]

An interesting piece by George Galloway, the MP for Bethnal Green & Bow regarding the Goldstone report;

 

The United Nations Rights Council, meeting in Geneva, is about to report on the Goldstone report into Israel's assault on the people of Gaza at in December 2008 and 2009.

 

The report, written by someone who could not remotely be described as biased towards the Palestinians, found devastating evidence of Israeli war crimes during the bombardment and land incursion.

 

The British government initially indicated that it would vote to accept the report, which would then be forwarded to the UN Security Council.

 

It now seems it is about to renege on that pledge and vote to block it.

 

Respect MP George Galloway says, "If Britain casts its vote against the truth it will be a staggering indictment of this government. Everyone who responded in shock and horror to the bombardment of Gaza should contact the Foreign and Commonwealth Office now to demand that the British representative to the UN stands by the original decision.

 

"Burying this report will only create deeper bitterness in the Middle East and further sully our country's reputation. It will, more importantly, send a signal to the hawks in Israel that they can kill and maim Palestinians with impunity.

 

"Gordon Brown and David Milliband have a chance to avoid that. They should be held to account if they refuse to take it."

[patiirc]

Peter Hain doesnt want BNP on QT

 

http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/article.aspx?cp-...entid=150306849

 

Hain warns BBC over BNP appearance

 

pa.press.net

A Cabinet minister has warned the BBC that it could face legal action unless it scraps the controversial appearance of far-right MEP Nick Griffin on Question Time.

Peter Hain has written to BBC director general Mark Thompson demanding he suspend the "abhorrent" inclusion of the British National Party leader on the flagship political debate show.

The Welsh Secretary argued that the BNP was at present "an unlawful body" after the party told a court last week it would amend its whites-only membership rules to meet discrimination legislation.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission had issued county court proceedings over concerns the membership criteria were restrictive to those within certain ethnic groups.

Mr Griffin is due to appear on Thursday's edition of Question Time alongside Justice Secretary Jack Straw, representatives of the other main parties and black writer Bonnie Greer.

But in his letter, Mr Hain said: "Now that the BNP have accepted they are at present an unlawful body, it would be perverse of you to maintain that they are just like any other democratically-elected party. On their own admission, at present, they are not.

"If you do not review the decision you may run the very serious risk of legal challenge in addition to the moral objections that I make. In my view, your approach is unreasonable, irrational and unlawful."

The BBC says Mr Griffin's inclusion is based on obligations resulting from the party's success in winning two seats in European Parliament elections this year.

A spokesman said the corporation had set out its position on the Question Time decision and would respond to Mr Hain "in due course". He added: "Our understanding is that, if there was an election tomorrow, the BNP would be able to stand. Our audiences, and the electorate, will make up their own minds about the different policies offered by elected politicians."

Anti-fascist campaigners plan to stage a protest against Mr Griffin's presence on the show at the BBC's Television Centre in west London when the show is filmed on Thursday. But an opinion poll at the weekend found voters backed the BBC by 63% to 23%.

[David]

"Our audiences, and the electorate, will make up their own minds about the different policies offered by elected politicians."

 

This statement probably sums the whole situation up best.

[Carbomb]

I'm getting fed up with this bollocks. Let them on to the show - everything they push can be easily destroyed in debate, which is the only real, conclusive way to deal with them. The more people try to get them barred, the more sympathy they gain, and they end up being seen as martyrs.

[Keith Houchen]

I'm getting fed up with this bollocks. Let them on to the show - everything they push can be easily destroyed in debate, which is the only real, conclusive way to deal with them. The more people try to get them barred, the more sympathy they gain, and they end up being seen as martyrs.

I'm sure that like me you've encountered fellow lefties who can't understand the reasoning behind this. One guy I was trying to convince how this would be the best method to expose the BNP even invoked Godwins Law saying they tried that in Germany! I just didn't bother trying to explain myself further.

[bobbins]

I'm getting fed up with this bollocks. Let them on to the show - everything they push can be easily destroyed in debate, which is the only real, conclusive way to deal with them. The more people try to get them barred, the more sympathy they gain, and they end up being seen as martyrs.

The problem is that Question Time doesn't really lend itself to real debate. There's no knowledgeable interviewer asking all the tough questions to ensure the public really sees the true views of the politicians. Last week with Nigel Farage was the perfect example of a charming guy being allowed to get away with murder.

[Joe_the_Lion]

I'm getting fed up with this bollocks. Let them on to the show - everything they push can be easily destroyed in debate, which is the only real, conclusive way to deal with them. The more people try to get them barred, the more sympathy they gain, and they end up being seen as martyrs.

The problem is that Question Time doesn't really lend itself to real debate. There's no knowledgeable interviewer asking all the tough questions to ensure the public really sees the true views of the politicians. Last week with Nigel Farage was the perfect example of a charming guy being allowed to get away with murder.

 

I don't think there is any danger of Griffin pulling that off. I think he'll hang himself out to dry, the law of averages leaves me pretty confident that if he has to give his opnion on half a dozen questions over the course of an hour at some point the thick twat will stick his foot in his mouth.

[kjh]

Last week with Nigel Farage was the perfect example of a charming guy being allowed to get away with murder.

 

I don't think Nick Griffin will be given such free rein, because he's an overt racist which outweighs whatever charm and charisma he has.

[David]

I think he'll hang himself out to dry, the law of averages leaves me pretty confident that if he has to give his opnion on half a dozen questions over the course of an hour at some point the thick twat will stick his foot in his mouth.

 

There are many things you can call Griffin, but I would say he's very far from being thick.

 

The progress that the BNP have made in recent years is an example of that. If someone had said three or four years ago that the BNP would be holding seats in the European Parliament they would have been laughed at.

 

I don't think the panel chosen to sit alongside him will work against him either. Bonnie Greer & Sayeeda Warsi may look like good choices to "confront" Griffin, but this is likely what Griffin will want.

 

He'll likely end up being booed, cut off constantly, and will manage to look as though he's being ganged up on.

 

This is looking set to be one of the most watched episodes of QT in recent times, so there'll be plenty of viewers tuning in who don't usually watch, and some of them won't even be fans of politics i'm willing to bet.

 

The show has been covered in all of the tabloids, which means it's known to the "regular Joe".

 

If these people tune in to see someone who knows how to work a crowd, making the right noises about rights for the average British worker, housing for British people, jobs for British people etc being cut off, booed, and "taken to task" by both Greer & Warsi, I doubt many of them will be thinking "yeah, that Griffin is a twat! Fuck him!".

 

They'll see a guy making noises about helping people just like them, a lone voice in the crowd and all that carry-on, getting bullied and vilified.

 

The way things are looking with the show, and especially with the media coverage the idiot left protesters will undoubtedly get, it's really a case of win/win for the BNP.

 

Far from being "thick", i'd say Griffin is smarter than most of the left combined.

 

Articles such as this are certainly doing the BNP no harm at all;

 

Nick Griffin has claimed that his Question Time invitation marks the BNP's arrival "in the British political system", as he argued that some Sikhs and Hindus now support the far-right party.

 

The BNP leader, who is due appear on BBC One's flagship political debate programme this week, said that many ethnic minority Britons agreed with the party's hard-line opposition to immigration.

 

Amid increasing public scrutiny of the BNP's racist policies, Mr Griffin contrasted "civically British" minority communities who lived here "legally and legitimately", with Islamic "colonists" who wanted to impose their views on the rest of society.

 

But he said that the BNP's purpose remained to represent "indigenous Brits"

[Joe_the_Lion]

I think he'll hang himself out to dry, the law of averages leaves me pretty confident that if he has to give his opnion on half a dozen questions over the course of an hour at some point the thick twat will stick his foot in his mouth.

 

There are many things you can call Griffin, but I would say he's very far from being thick.

 

 

Why not? He was bright enough to realise that that the Nazi/Skinhead image wasn't the best but beyond that he's never really seemed to be the sharpest tool in the box. In the context of the Far Right he's the smartest guy in the room, but when the room is almost exclusively populated by chimps that's not really that much to write home about.

 

The BNP really hasn't made that much progress you know. There were a certain number of people who would have happily voted BNP but were put off by the NF links, he made it possible for those people to vote BNP - sure it's an achievement of sorts but it doesn't represent a massive stride forward for the Far Right in the UK. If he takes their current support level and doubles it that would be a massive stride forward as it would show he was attracting a new type of person to the 'cause' . If that happended I might start to give this political genius a bit more credit.