General politics discussion thread

[Carbomb]

Salmond is such a dick. It's like he's forever jumping up and down shouting, "look at me! look at me!"

 

This... What a prick.. I wanna be in a British leaders debate for a general election, where iam relinquishing my seat and have no interest whatsoever in.. but Ill sue you if iam not in it Utter wanker.. People voted for him???? Sod Blair for next president of Europe.. this guy could be a real menace..

 

How come 'his nationalist party' and, t'other nationalist party get so wildly different reactions.. it cant just be the reacisim thing or is that me being naive.. As the SNP is all about Scotland and how they have been hard done to and fuck everyone else..... Hitler Mark 2 that Mr Salmond

 

All due respect, that's a bit of a silly post. There have been plenty of nationalist parties across the world throughout its history, but not all of them have been racist or extreme right. The SNP is pretty left-wing, and they don't campaign from a premise of racism or exclusion, which is why they don't draw the same stick as the BNP. Salmond hasn't talked about "pure Scots" or "pure Scottish culture" or "repatriating immigrants" - at least, not giving them the same prominence in the SNP manifesto that other nationalist parties have.

 

Ultimately speaking, the title of a party means nothing; it's all about what they set out to do, and which platforms they campaign from (I know we don't expect politicians to keep their promises, but I don't think, conversely, that anyone expects them to break said promises by doing a complete switch to the opposite platform).

[patiirc]

Salmond is such a dick. It's like he's forever jumping up and down shouting, "look at me! look at me!"

 

This... What a prick.. I wanna be in a British leaders debate for a general election, where iam relinquishing my seat and have no interest whatsoever in.. but Ill sue you if iam not in it Utter wanker.. People voted for him???? Sod Blair for next president of Europe.. this guy could be a real menace..

 

How come 'his nationalist party' and, t'other nationalist party get so wildly different reactions.. it cant just be the reacisim thing or is that me being naive.. As the SNP is all about Scotland and how they have been hard done to and fuck everyone else..... Hitler Mark 2 that Mr Salmond

 

All due respect, that's a bit of a silly post. There have been plenty of nationalist parties across the world throughout its history, but not all of them have been racist or extreme right. The SNP is pretty left-wing, and they don't campaign from a premise of racism or exclusion, which is why they don't draw the same stick as the BNP. Salmond hasn't talked about "pure Scots" or "pure Scottish culture" or "repatriating immigrants" - at least, not giving them the same prominence in the SNP manifesto that other nationalist parties have.

 

Ultimately speaking, the title of a party means nothing; it's all about what they set out to do, and which platforms they campaign from (I know we don't expect politicians to keep their promises, but I don't think, conversely, that anyone expects them to break said promises by doing a complete switch to the opposite platform).

 

 

Well was only asking about the SNP... Nationalist aims can some times be misconstrued

 

Seems from digging the SNP was amalgamated from two different Nationalist parties, one right of centre one left of centre and that there is still some rival ry

 

I found from their website they are pro EU, pro Euro Currency, Anti Nato and for Nuclear disarmament. Yet the want independence? So how does that work they would be sucked into the EU and single currency anyhoo?

 

This is where the Alex Salmond factor comes in. Already expelled from the party in 1970's for being a radical. he manged to sort thinsg around to the point of becoming leader of the party in 1990.

 

Mr Salmond is seemingly in it for himself and always has been. He has retired as leader of the SNP once already to go and fight in Westminster for the craic ( improve his status) as it were, but couldnt possibly stay out the way and had to come back when Swinney was forced to step down and, try and make the party strong again so that his ideal would become prevalent.

 

However he has been petulant.. Not that i like either politicians but Salmond is famous for using Call my Bluff cards for an appearence he made on the show to lambast a speach made by Tony Blair at one point.

 

It Appears he is the ultimate oppotunist, doing whats right for him to achieve his aims.. nothing worng with that per se but it does appear at times he wants to do whats best for him rather than wnats best for everyone else and is why he is dangerous,.

[The Four Horsemen]

I was having a discussion with my GF and some of her friends about the British political system this weekend and came up with a couple of things to think about:

 

If the Conservatives get close to getting in, in 2010. Can anyone else apart from me see a Liberal-Labour coalition to keep them out? Personally I think this is more than likely.

 

Will Browns apparent health issues force him to resign, but calling a winter election just before he goes to catch everyone on the hop about 7 months early?

 

Proportional representation has been tried and IMO doesn't work. The normal MP first past the post system is tried and tested but the majority of the time is far too predictable, which is usually represented by voter apathy and low turn outs at General Elections. Maybe its about time to introduce a system similar to the American electoral system, where every county is given a set amount of Electoral College votes depending on population, GDP and such.

 

Oh and one last thing and this for me is a real bain with people. You know when we have local, council, European and General Elections? Then why not go and vote, really its not painful and doesn't take too much time and you know the best thing? When your local area is run down and in another economic down-turn and employment is on the up again and your sat at home or wherever complaining about it to anyone and everyone. Just remember you had your chance (if your over 18) to goto the Polling Station and have your say about the way the UK is run, and you really dont have any right to complain because you did sweet FA about it.

[SpursRiot2012]

I was having a discussion with my GF and some of her friends about the British political system this weekend and came up with a couple of things to think about:

 

If the Conservatives get close to getting in, in 2010. Can anyone else apart from me see a Liberal-Labour coalition to keep them out? Personally I think this is more than likely.

 

I don't like this kind of politics. Why does it have to be about keeping a party out? Labour only ever want talk about how much the Tories getting into power would suck for everybody because the Tories are "bad." I'd much rather they tell me what they're going to do to turns things around, apart from sell off assets.

[Joe_the_Lion]

The next election isn't about politics, Brown has managed to remove the usual perks of looking at parties and deciding which one you like the most. Vote for Gordon and the people in darkened rooms who buy government debt will bring on the end of the world as we know it and we won't feel fine.

[Kenny McBride]

I was having a discussion with my GF and some of her friends about the British political system this weekend and came up with a couple of things to think about:

 

If the Conservatives get close to getting in, in 2010. Can anyone else apart from me see a Liberal-Labour coalition to keep them out? Personally I think this is more than likely.

 

It's not actually very likely to be an issue. If the current polls are right, the Tories should be due a pretty comfortable majority.

 

Will Browns apparent health issues force him to resign, but calling a winter election just before he goes to catch everyone on the hop about 7 months early?

 

Highly unlikely. The Labour party needs until May to get its shit together and mount some kind of comeback. The only way Brown's "health issues" could be a factor is if he drops dead and someone nice gets the job.

 

Proportional representation has been tried and IMO doesn't work. The normal MP first past the post system is tried and tested but the majority of the time is far too predictable, which is usually represented by voter apathy and low turn outs at General Elections. Maybe its about time to introduce a system similar to the American electoral system, where every county is given a set amount of Electoral College votes depending on population, GDP and such.

 

What the fucking fuck? Are you for real? PR "doesn't work" how? It tends to give you coalition governments, but that's not necessarily a bad thing, you know. It works perfectly well in plenty of countries and at various levels of local government. In fact, it works quite handily in Scotland right now. It's democratic, see? It means that someone who votes Labour but lives in Kensington or a Tory voter in Burnley still has a vote that counts. As things stand, there are losing candidates at general elections who get more votes than winning candidates in other constituencies. That makes no sense whatsoever. And the electoral college would be a useless system for this country. What would the college vote on? We don't have a presidential system. And how the fuck would GDP be relevant? Are you seriously suggesting that rich people should get more votes than poor people? Presumably the blacks would only get 2/3 of a vote each as well. Fucking hell.

 

Oh and one last thing and this for me is a real bain with people. You know when we have local, council, European and General Elections? Then why not go and vote, really its not painful and doesn't take too much time and you know the best thing? When your local area is run down and in another economic down-turn and employment is on the up again and your sat at home or wherever complaining about it to anyone and everyone. Just remember you had your chance (if your over 18) to goto the Polling Station and have your say about the way the UK is run, and you really dont have any right to complain because you did sweet FA about it.

 

Well, at least you're not a complete idiot.

[Joe_the_Lion]

Ignoring all of the smaller/fringe parties I reckon if you had an election under PR in the UK you'd end up with something like 40% Labour, 40% Tory, 20% Liberal. In those circumstances the party with the fewest votes has the most power which can't possibly be considered to be democratic, something that successive Liberal Democrat leaders have been all too aware of.

 

The thing with electoral systems is you have to consider the make-up of the electorate when choosing your system. PR might well work well in some countries but I don't think it would in the UK on a national level, the first past the post system may seem unfair in some ways and could do with some tweaking but it also has a pretty good record when it comes to delivering viable governing parties which reflect the wishes of the majority of the electorate at that time.

 

I know people argue that PR gives a better chance for the views of those who didn't support the winning party to be heard but if you have five people and three vote for option A while two vote for option B is it really sensible to introduce an option C just because the vote was close? To my mind rather than being fairer to the views of the minotiry you are just ensuring that nobody gets what they want.

[kjh]

The next election isn't about politics, Brown has managed to remove the usual perks of looking at parties and deciding which one you like the most. Vote for Gordon and the people in darkened rooms who buy government debt will bring on the end of the world as we know it and we won't feel fine.

 

You're being sarcastic, right? All three main political parties are squabbling over who can slash spending the most; they're just quibbling over the timing of these cuts and what should be cut. I really think there is a greater risk of plunging the economy into a long term depression by making the cuts too soon, than Gordon Brown's policies plunging us into some sort of Doomsday scenario where investors stop lending us money.

[Joe_the_Lion]

The next election isn't about politics, Brown has managed to remove the usual perks of looking at parties and deciding which one you like the most. Vote for Gordon and the people in darkened rooms who buy government debt will bring on the end of the world as we know it and we won't feel fine.

 

You're being sarcastic, right? All three main political parties are squabbling over who can slash spending the most; they're just quibbling over the timing of these cuts and what should be cut. I really think there is a greater risk of plunging the economy into a long term depression by making the cuts too soon, than Gordon Brown's policies plunging us into some sort of Doomsday scenario where investors stop lending us money.

 

By all accounts the only reason we haven't already lost our AAA debt rating is because all of the people in the markets are assuming that Cameron will win the next election, if Brown wins we will lose that rating and then all the current talk of spending cuts of 10-15% will seem like a magical and wonderful dreamland.

[JNLister]

The thing with electoral systems is you have to consider the make-up of the electorate when choosing your system. PR might well work well in some countries but I don't think it would in the UK on a national level, the first past the post system may seem unfair in some ways and could do with some tweaking but it also has a pretty good record when it comes to delivering viable governing parties which reflect the wishes of the majority of the electorate at that time.

 

At the last election Labour got 35% of the vote, which is equivalent to 22% of the entire electorate. For this they got a healthy majority and were able to run the country for five years.

[Loki]

Ignoring all of the smaller/fringe parties I reckon if you had an election under PR in the UK you'd end up with something like 40% Labour, 40% Tory, 20% Liberal. In those circumstances the party with the fewest votes has the most power which can't possibly be considered to be democratic, something that successive Liberal Democrat leaders have been all too aware of.

 

The thing with electoral systems is you have to consider the make-up of the electorate when choosing your system. PR might well work well in some countries but I don't think it would in the UK on a national level, the first past the post system may seem unfair in some ways and could do with some tweaking but it also has a pretty good record when it comes to delivering viable governing parties which reflect the wishes of the majority of the electorate at that time.

 

I know people argue that PR gives a better chance for the views of those who didn't support the winning party to be heard but if you have five people and three vote for option A while two vote for option B is it really sensible to introduce an option C just because the vote was close? To my mind rather than being fairer to the views of the minotiry you are just ensuring that nobody gets what they want.

 

I don't get what you mean by "the party with the fewest votes has the most power ". When a government if formed under a system of PR, such as in Germany, the largest party holds the most cabinet positions and obviously still has the most seats in Parliament, and Bills are prepared by an amazing thing called negotiation where the parties in the coalition actually discuss the content until everyone is on board.

 

PR works perfectly well in many countries around the world - in fact, the British and American system of democracy is quite unusual and archaic. I fundamentally disagree with the suggestion that First Past The Post has a good track record of refelecting the majority of the electorate - in my lifetime practically every government has repesented less than 50% of the voters (let alone the overall voting population). The reason there is so much resistance to PR is that the 2 main parties have a good thing going here - one in and one out, and they don't feel particularly like letting anyone in on power.

 

Even given FPTP's propensity for creating landslide victories, there is a slim chance that the upcoming election will still result in a coalition government. In that scenario, it's much more likely in fact that the Tories and Lib Dems will create a government than the old Lib Lab pact (which is why the Tories haven't rolled out that line again, and also why Cameron wants to debate both leaders). The two parties have already had behind-closed-doors discussions and a rough plan beaten out. So basically Labour have to get a majority or they are out, and I can't see them getting a majority.

[Joe_the_Lion]

I don't get what you mean by "the party with the fewest votes has the most power ". When a government if formed under a system of PR, such as in Germany, the largest party holds the most cabinet positions and obviously still has the most seats in Parliament, and Bills are prepared by an amazing thing called negotiation where the parties in the coalition actually discuss the content until everyone is on board.

 

Or until the party that holds the seats that are the difference between a coalition having a mjority and not having a majority throws it's hand up the air and fucks everyone else over. For every Germany there is an Italy. I think we'd end up more like Italy than Germany, the Party lines are too well defined and when times get tough selfish instinct will take over and bring the house of cards down.

[patiirc]

So Gordon Brown is selling off the Family Jewels including, Dartford tunnel (where they get a regular income from ?) excess land when the propety and land market is slumped our interest in the Channel Tunnel plus Uranium enriching ( they already sold off our secret weapons laboritories?) and student loans!!!!!!!!!!! Thats going to work sint it I mean Students are already being hit hardest when they finish as they highest unemployed group is 18-25 yet the sale of Student loans could mean they are forced to pay more.. with what, ill never known. Fucking idiot

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8301927.stm

[JNLister]

Bonnie Greer is one of the guests on the Griffin show. It'll be great in that she'll out debate him, but she was born in the US. While it's amusing to have an immigrant on the panel with Griffin, I'd almost have preferred a British born black panelist just to watch him try to argue that they aren't actually British.

[David]

Are any of our Glasgow members going to be voting in Novembers Glasgow North East by-election?

 

I imagine that the SNP will be favourites to snap up this former Labour stronghold, although there will hopefully be a healthy turn-out in favour of some of the other parties as well, such as Solidarity and the Greens.