New Doctor Who

[BomberPat]

On ‎02‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 7:57 AM, d-d-d-dAz said:

My only complaint, which is a boring common one, is that I'd have rathered Bill had a noble death than a hazy happy ending.

Yeah, it would be nice to see Doctor Who fully commit to a death with some emotional weight to it, though obviously I understand the various reasons they can't. Is it 100% confirmed that Bill isn't coming back for the next series? I assume so, but I suppose it always helps to keep a companion alive in case they fancy bringing them back later down the line.

I loved that episode - aside from right at the beginning, it lacked the continuity-hopping that Moffat seems to have crowbarred into practically every episode and that really wore thin on me this series, as it was the one thing hurting an otherwise perfect storm of a series, and easily my favourite series of "New Who" yet.

A damn shame that Capaldi's on his way out when it seems they only just figured out how to write to his strengths. I was desperately hoping right up until the end that, somehow, they'd swerved us and he wasn't actually leaving! I was just clinging on to hope off the back of the new Doctor not having been announced yet. I hope they don't announce anyone - a regeneration where we genuinely have no idea what to expect could be superb.

And, well, that ending. Bloody brilliant stuff.

[JNLister]

(With apologies to everyone who either knew/noticed or read about this already.)

The last scene being in the snow is almost certainly because William Hartnell's final episode in 1966 is set in 1986 in the South Pole. During that episode the dying Doctor goes off screen making his own way back to the Tardis ahead of his companions, who later join him there where he regenerates.

That means this year's Christmas special almost certainly takes place *during* that 1966 episode and will involve both the first and twelfth doctors in their final moments before regenerating.

To make it even better, that 1966 episode was the first ever appearance of the Cybermen, in their Mondas (no armour) format. And Peter Capaldi has previously chosen it as one of his favourite episodes.

I don't think I can cope if the Christmas special has this jawdropping awesomeness of a premise and the payoff is Kris Marshall.

[JNLister]

Best part of the episode was that (having avoided any spoilers) I briefly had no fewer than four mistaken interpretations at various points:

1) The Doctor and Bill are both dead but he'll regenerate with her body! The Doctor's a lady!

2) Oh, nope, he's regenerated as the pilot. The Doctor's another lady!

3) Oh nope, he's going to regenerate into the same body by refusing to change and Peter Capaldi will be the Doctor forever!

4) Nope, he's going to regenerate into the first Doctor because when the Time Lords granted him a new cycle, it was actually the same cycle again, so this guy's going to be the Doctor until he leaves and then it'll be a bloke who looks like Patrick Troughton.

[BomberPat]

2 minutes ago, JNLister said:

(With apologies to everyone who either knew/noticed or read about this already.)

The last scene being in the snow is almost certainly because William Hartnell's final episode in 1966 is set in 1986 in the South Pole. During that episode the dying Doctor goes off screen making his own way back to the Tardis ahead of his companions, who later join him there where he regenerates.

That means this year's Christmas special almost certainly takes place *during* that 1966 episode and will involve both the first and twelfth doctors in their final moments before regenerating.

To make it even better, that 1966 episode was the first ever appearance of the Cybermen, in their Mondas (no armour) format. And Peter Capaldi has previously chosen it as one of his favourite episodes.

I don't think I can cope if the Christmas special has this jawdropping awesomeness of a premise and the payoff is Kris Marshall.

It ties in brilliantly with Hartnell's farewell speech, too; it kind of casts it in a new light, as if he was talking to himself as much as to Susan;

Quote

 "One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine"

That came to mind as I was watching it; the Doctor, as well as refusing to regenerate, was giving up on being the Doctor. He said that, wherever he was, he was going to stay. Coming off the back of his, "I do what I do because it's right" speech to the Master, that to me is the Doctor turning his back on his beliefs - and who better to remind him that he must go forward in all his beliefs than himself, one day coming back?

 

Something this two parter isn't being given enough credit for, in amongst all the praise its rightly getting, is that it made the Cybermen scary. Most of the classic Who villains are useless mooks these days, and even when the Cybermen do show up as a big threat, you know it doesn't really count for much. But they managed to make the original Cybermen, the ones that were obviously just blokes in rubbish suits, actually scary. Not only that, but when the "new" armoured Cybermen showed up, they were actually made scarier by association, despite us having seen them countless times over the last few years.

 

Quote

I don't think I can cope if the Christmas special has this jawdropping awesomeness of a premise and the payoff is Kris Marshall.

Likewise. I'm a huge fan of Capaldi as an actor, and felt constantly frustrated by how poor some of the material he was given to work with has been, so I've loved this series. Prior to this series, I was close to giving up on Doctor Who altogether, but stuck with it because, even in a poor episode, you know you're going to get some good business out of Capaldi. But, with him going out, even with the goodwill this series has earned, a crap new Doctor could easily kill my enthusiasm, and it can't come much crapper than Kris Marshall.

I'm worried that they will have, before the rave reviews this series has got, looked at Capaldi as a bit of a failure and gone to cast a quirky young bloke again, and I don't want that! I want crotchety old man Doctor.

[JNLister]

I do have to say that I wish the Doctor would actually learn that when a new assistant comes and they have the "it's bigger on the inside!" moment, he should take the opportunity to go "yep, get used to things being different to how you expect. BTW, if I ever die, don't cry too much, there's this whole regeneration deal."

[BomberPat]

4 minutes ago, JNLister said:

I do have to say that I wish the Doctor would actually learn that when a new assistant comes and they have the "it's bigger on the inside!" moment, he should take the opportunity to go "yep, get used to things being different to how you expect. BTW, if I ever die, don't cry too much, there's this whole regeneration deal."

I'd explain that away as the Doctor not wanting to broach the subject of possible death, as one of his conceits to his companions is that he will always be there to protect them, and suggesting that someone might die - even if it's not exactly permanent - is at odds with that.

[d-d-d-dAz]

I found this far tougher to watch than a grown man reasonably should...

[Guest]

On 26/06/2017 at 11:57 AM, BomberPat said:

What worked against it, for me, is that I'm sick of Moffat's continuity-hopping writing. He's so reluctant to just write a linear story, everything has to be told by jumping around through flashbacks and so on, and it's needless.

On 03/07/2017 at 11:44 AM, BomberPat said:

I loved that episode - aside from right at the beginning, it lacked the continuity-hopping that Moffat seems to have crowbarred into practically every episode and that really wore thin on me this series, as it was the one thing hurting an otherwise perfect storm of a series, and easily my favourite series of "New Who" yet.

I'm fully expecting the Christmas special to begin with Capaldi swashbuckling aboard a pirate ship or something.

Sorry for the late reply but I've just caught up on iPlayer today, and I'm glad this thread was revived. Without it, I'd have been left assuming the old guy they introduced at the end was supposed to be the next Doctor, as I'm not familiar enough with William Hartnell to recognise someone intended to look like him.

[d-d-d-dAz]

Jodie Whittaker has 'done a capaldi', so to speak. Her odds have shot up in the last day, just before the announcement.

Going to avoid social media tomorrow though, as these things invariably leak before the announcement. There doesn't seem to be a special show in the EPG though, which makes me think they'll announce as and when the tennis finishes. Which means I'm probably going to watch three hours of tennis, which I don't really care about.

[Retro Red]

At this point, anyone that isn't Kris Marshall is A-OK with me. If it goes 5 sets tomorrow I'll be less than impressed.

[d-d-d-dAz]

She's a terrific actress, and it's good for a writer/actor to know each other.

I'd have rather Phoebe Waller-Bridge, probably, but I'm happy with it.

Plus, it's not Kris Marshall.

They are continuing the tradition of casting very accomplished actors to the role. Which is good.

[Farrington]

Went to school with Jodie and know the family - she's a lovely person and a great actress. Chuffed 😊

[stevieg1980]

Still not ginger. 

[Keith Houchen]

Has anyone checked on Glen Quagmire? If he is a Dr Who fan this might push him over the edge and he'll start trolling abortion clinics.

[Retro Red]

Raven is making Doctor Who jokes on twitter, what a time to be alive.