Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted May 30, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Flair beat Foley is a super odd decision at Vengeance. Foley had a reputation (a well deserved one) at the time of being able to work a showstealer based around weapons and a big bump. So when he wrestled Flair, it was all set to be a good one. 2 out of 3 falls only added to the anticipation. Flair won the first fall after some not so good brawling and then Foley got DQ'd. Everyone went "is that it?" Proper disappointing it was. Â Its happened a few times in TNA as well. I think Kurt Angle beat Rhino. Also, for what its worth, Angle (the heel) beat LAX (the babyface tag team champions, with one of them getting a World title shot at the next PPV) on Impact clean in a handicap match back in 2008. Mental. Edited May 30, 2012 by The_BarbarIAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reznor Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Horsemen vs Blondes on a COTC in 93 also. One of Flair's first matches back iirc. Â Great match too, and a neat ending where the losers were actually the winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members JNLister Posted May 30, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted May 30, 2012 Has there ever been a 2 out of 3 falls match in a main American federation (WWF/WWE, WCW, ECW, NWA, AWA, TNA) where someone has beaten their opponent 2-0? I know I've never seen one, but has it happened? Â MVP won the US title from Benoit that way. Bulldogs beat Hart Foundation on SNME. Islanders beat Young Stallions at Rumble 88. Backlund & Morales won the tag titles from the Samoans at Shea Stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members LaGoosh Posted May 30, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted May 30, 2012 Cheers, that's a lot more than I thought, given how he supposedly hated doing jobs  I've never got the impression Austin hated doing jobs, more that he was happy to job if it was good for business and for the right reasons. And as the top babyface he shouldn't have been expected to lose clean to anyone, thats babyface booking 101.  Him losing to Brock Lesnar in a qualifying match for King Of The Ring on a random episode of Raw is a perfect example of this. It made no damn sense so he refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted May 30, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Him losing to Brock Lesnar in a qualifying match for King Of The Ring on a random episode of Raw is a perfect example of this. It made no damn sense so he refused. The issue wasn't him refusing to lose. The issue was that he just left the TV tapings without informing management. Austin was bang out of order. He should never have walked out. Its easy to change plans, but is not easy to change plans when the main man of the main event isn't there at the venue. Â I never got how it didn't make sense either. Lesnar killed Hogan on TV, later that year. He saw no problem with it, because he felt Brock needed building up for their PPV rematch. And it did. If Lesnar had killed Austin on a live episode of Raw, they'd have done far better business after the fact than if they'd have just had the rookie monster vs. Austin on the KOTR PPV. It would have made Lesnar months before it did. Austin was protecting himself, not the business. Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind. Edited May 30, 2012 by The_BarbarIAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted May 30, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted May 30, 2012 I never got how it didn't make sense either. From a business perspective, it was absolute horseshit. You had the massive star of the past 4 years, a guy who'd achieved in that 4 years what almost every wrestler in history couldn't match in their lifetime. Then you have your next big thing. Not only is it a potentially massive money match but done right, the opportunity was there to pass the torch. To book it like anything else was a crazy mentality. Steve Austin may have been looking out for number one but he was also the only person smart enough to see money being flushed down the toilet. Â It doesn't compare to Hogan either. Hogan was a massive star but one who'd been battered and bruised for years, in terms of reputation. Austin rarely put anyone over for the previous 4 years. You could count his clean losses on about 2 fingers. Him laying down meant something, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted May 30, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Austin wasn't drawing in 2002 Or in 2001 for that matter. He'd suffered more defeats in 2002 than he had his whole WWF career up until that point. An Austin vs Brock Lesnar feud wouldn't have draw at all on PPV in 2002 at the time if it was just comedy Austin doing his "What" gimmick, making a fool out of everyone and everything. If he'd have battered and bruised Austin on TV like was proposed (exactly like the Hogan match), they'd have had a ready made feud and might have done a lot of repair the damage Austin had done to his character by doing this joke character. Brock never had one superstar put him over until Hogan and the Rock did. He worked with RVD and the Hardys, but a win over Austin on TV (where the whole audience would have been watching) would have done him the world of good. Instead, he went into the Rock match with very little momentum. The King of the Ring win was flat as a fart and matches where he didn't pin RVD weren't much of a build for the main event of SummerSlam either. Â Austin should have maned up and just did what he was told. If he was so concerned about not pissing money down the drain, he wouldn't have walked out before a live show he was advertised on. It was a dick move. His feelings were hurt because he was asked to lose to Scott Hall a few weeks before and walked out the first time. Nothing to do with "hurting the business". Â Its Debra I feel sorry for Edited May 30, 2012 by The_BarbarIAN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted May 30, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted May 30, 2012 Austin wasn't drawing in 2002 He was either treading over old ground or working with garbage like Scott Hall. He'd taken a backseat. He was still the main man. A properly promoted Austin/Lesnar feud would have made more money than almost anything else they had at that point. I'm not saying it wasn't a dick move but he was right not to do the match, IMO. Austin never really gets the stick he deserves for putting himself first. He seems exempt from criticism sometimes. Hogan would get pelters for similar stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted May 30, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted May 30, 2012 Austin has said in interviews that he should have "done the damn job". He admitted during that time period he was losing his mind. Burnt out, getting phased out and injuries catching up with him were all leading to one massive explosion - thankfully he didn't kill the lovely Miss "Mongo" Marshall, just a Sean Connery-approved slap about. Â Hogan always got shafted when he put people over. They all seem to piss off after a couple of years. Poor bloke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members CleetusVanDamme Posted May 30, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted May 30, 2012 Austin was finished as a draw by mid-2002. There was a reason he was in a semi-regular tag team with Bradshaw and penciled in for a feud with Eddie Guerrero. It wasn't a case of poor Stone Cold being denied a chance to make money, earlier in the year he was in the world title hunt with Jericho, it didn't catch on. They sacrificed the Outsiders credibility trying to keep him relevant, it didn't catch on. Same with the god-awful Undertaker feud and the Flair/Big Show feud. Â I can't see how putting him up against a guy that had spent the previous month squashing the Hardys to little reaction would have led to money being drawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEWM Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 It wasn't just jobbing with Austin either. He didn't half start playing the cunt DURING the matches when he didn't fancy helping the other guy. He looked a fucking nightmare for Jericho and Booker T in early 02, and gobbled Angle up for his own benefit (despite him supposed to be playing the chickenshit heel) every time they fought in 01. Want to see the worst nWo beat-down ever? No Way Out's your man. He just lies there like a shit. Â Austin was a miserable wanker doing nothing for anybody from his 01 face turn onwards. He seems to all-but admit it in interviews now that he's chilled out too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafia Scum Scum Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Wasn't part of the problem, the fact that the match was not pre advertised for Raw, so Austin thought it was pointless to give away the match with no build up? Â The fact that Austin left the building so he did not have to do the match just shows how selfish Austin was back then. Edited May 30, 2012 by Mafia Scum Scum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution 9 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Just a couple of quick ones: Â Age old question, and plenty of needless threads I'm sure - but what is the actual gripe people have with the Invasion angle? Is it just not hanging on til Flair/Hogan/Goldberg etc showed up? Not looking for debate, just wondered what the accepted consensus was. Â Also, was Bob Orton really fired in 2005 for bleeding on the Undertaker whilst having hepatitis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members CleetusVanDamme Posted May 30, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted May 30, 2012 It should have been the perfect scenario for all wrestling fans, with endless dream match possibilities. Â Instead, we got major pushes for Booker T and Test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members WWFChilli Posted May 30, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted May 30, 2012 I hated, HATED, Austin in 2002. One skit in particular just annoyed the fuck out of me. It was just after Flair had turned heel on him and Austin attacked Arn Anderson backstage while Flair was cutting a promo. Austin then proceeded to 'piss' on Double A. It came off as a corny shite skit and made Austin look like a right cunt. It worked when he did horrible shit to Vince because it was give or take, but by 2002, Austin just came across like a right arsey sod on TV, not just backstage. I was glad when Eddie mullered him at that karaoke bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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