Chris Benoit dead

[Fileeeps]

is it just me remembering with rose-tinted glasses, or is this a relatively recent phenomenon?i'm sure when i first go into wrestling, back at the start of the 1990's, the only time a wrestler died, it was one who was long-retired and from natural causes.it's so depressing to see so many of the guys i grew up watching dropping like flies, and so often from causes that should be avoidable

[Murtz]

I thought id say how I feel about all of this...This has got to be one of the most confusing story I can ever remember reading.. not only within Wrestling, but any World News story.I fully accept what the investigation has concluded.. Im not one of those people that will let the status of a person influence my judgment on them if they've murdered their wife and kid. Hell, if the Pope killed his children Id condemn the fucker to hell. But I can see masses of people that will be sticking up for him no matter what the evidence says.. 'But he's a man of god.. he cant have done that.. and even if he did it must have been a good reason'. I myself cant understand that way of thinking.. but I can accept that there are people out there that are so 'attached' to a person.. that they refuse to accept them being done for murder... No matter how conclusive the evidence is.Even though I believe the outcome of all this.. Im still so confused as to why it all happened. And I think because of that confusion.. my head is thinking of possible scenarios that are more 'obvious' than the one the investigators have come out with.Forget who this person was.. lets just take is as this... a Man.. going home for a family emergency.. kills his wife on a friday in a brutal fashion.. kills his 'mentally retarded' son a day later... and finally hangs himself?. It just doesnt add up... but just because id dont add up doesnt mean Im not willing to accept that it has happened.After reading the last few pages of this thread.. I came across information of how the parents were struggling with the care of their mentally retarded son (I hate saying that term.. but its the way it was reported). And as soon as I read that.. combined with all the information I already knew.. I came up with the most logical solution that my mind can accept as a genuine possibility.Two parents struggling to take care of their child who is suffering from a mental condition. The wife accidently/intently kills the child, probably because she didnt want him to suffer or she couldnt hack it. The father gets called home after the wife's guilt sinks in.. The father is outraged.. kills the wife in a brutal fashion... and then kills himself.That theory makes more sense to me.. but sense is something that is thrown out of the window when you're talking about family members murdering each other. (As well as the autopsy saying Daniel was killed after Nancy).Its all just so confusing.. but that being said.. I have to believe that a man killed his wife and child, just because of the evidence provided. This man being one of the best superstars in a sport that I love doesnt make no difference to me.

[MungoChutney]

I feel the same as Fileeeps. It certainly seems to have gotten worse in the 21st century but I think that can be put down to some performers lifestyles in the 80's and 90's catching up with them.

Edited June 28, 2007 by Sweatsock

[Dirty Eddie]

is it just me remembering with rose-tinted glasses, or is this a relatively recent phenomenon?i'm sure when i first go into wrestling, back at the start of the 1990's, the only time a wrestler died, it was one who was long-retired and from natural causes.it's so depressing to see so many of the guys i grew up watching dropping like flies, and so often from causes that should be avoidable

It's all guys who found fame in the 80's and 90's. When WWF exploded nationally in the early/mid 80's, wrestlers went from being local heroes to national celebrities. This meant more money for everyone, which led to loads of booze and drugs (the 80's was also the decade that saw much of America's rich and famous snorting coke like there was no tomorrow, wrestlers included). Add in the fact that Steroids were everywhere and no-one really knew how dangerous they were (yet) and you get lots of dead 40 year olds! The fact that we are now seeing guys who found fame in the 90's, not the 80's dying off proves that people just will not learn about the dangers of steroid use.Oh yeah, I've not even touched apon the insane travel schedules and the pain-pill problems....!!

[DJ Stevie C]

Murtz I understand searching for an aswer.But the autopsy concluded Nancy Died on Friday, Daniel on Saturday and Chris Saturday night/sunday morning.They've stated that clearly.I'm of the mind they were talking, argued, he snapped and decided they were all better off dead.I've come to accept that somene can, and has done that in the past and someone will do that in the future.Kinda chills me to think that way, but it's how things are. People are shit.

[Carbomb]

is it just me remembering with rose-tinted glasses, or is this a relatively recent phenomenon?i'm sure when i first go into wrestling, back at the start of the 1990's, the only time a wrestler died, it was one who was long-retired and from natural causes.it's so depressing to see so many of the guys i grew up watching dropping like flies, and so often from causes that should be avoidable

It's all guys who found fame in the 80's and 90's. When WWF exploded nationally in the early/mid 80's, wrestlers went from being local heroes to national celebrities. This meant more money for everyone, which led to loads of booze and drugs (the 80's was also the decade that saw much of America's rich and famous snorting coke like there was no tomorrow, wrestlers included). Add in the fact that Steroids were everywhere and no-one really knew how dangerous they were (yet) and you get lots of dead 40 year olds! The fact that we are now seeing guys who found fame in the 90's, not the 80's dying off proves that people just will not learn about the dangers of steroid use.Oh yeah, I've not even touched apon the insane travel schedules and the pain-pill problems....!!

Actually, I disagree. What you are referring to is the deaths that you got to hear about from the media. Quite a few older wrestlers died early, and in some cases, violently.Rikidozan was stabbed by yakuza, and died in hospital a week later.Bruiser Brody was stabbed by Invader#2, on the orders of a scumbag Puerto Rican promoter.Kerry Von Erich committed suicide in the very early 90s, most of the other Von Erichs died in the 80s.I am sure there are countless more - remember, it was commonplace for heel wrestlers to get stabbed by fans, because kayfabe hadn't been destroyed yet. Furthermore, a lot of wrestling was (and still is) dominated by organised crime, especially in Japan and Mexico.

[Dirty Eddie]

is it just me remembering with rose-tinted glasses, or is this a relatively recent phenomenon?i'm sure when i first go into wrestling, back at the start of the 1990's, the only time a wrestler died, it was one who was long-retired and from natural causes.it's so depressing to see so many of the guys i grew up watching dropping like flies, and so often from causes that should be avoidable

It's all guys who found fame in the 80's and 90's. When WWF exploded nationally in the early/mid 80's, wrestlers went from being local heroes to national celebrities. This meant more money for everyone, which led to loads of booze and drugs (the 80's was also the decade that saw much of America's rich and famous snorting coke like there was no tomorrow, wrestlers included). Add in the fact that Steroids were everywhere and no-one really knew how dangerous they were (yet) and you get lots of dead 40 year olds! The fact that we are now seeing guys who found fame in the 90's, not the 80's dying off proves that people just will not learn about the dangers of steroid use.Oh yeah, I've not even touched apon the insane travel schedules and the pain-pill problems....!!

Actually, I disagree. What you are referring to is the deaths that you got to hear about from the media. Quite a few older wrestlers died early, and in some cases, violently.Rikidozan was stabbed by yakuza, and died in hospital a week later.Bruiser Brody was stabbed by Invader#2, on the orders of a scumbag Puerto Rican promoter.Kerry Von Erich committed suicide in the very early 90s, most of the other Von Erichs died in the 80s.I am sure there are countless more - remember, it was commonplace for heel wrestlers to get stabbed by fans, because kayfabe hadn't been destroyed yet. Furthermore, a lot of wrestling was (and still is) dominated by organised crime, especially in Japan and Mexico.

Wrestler's dropping dead of heart problems in their forties is only a problem that has come along since steroids and pain-pills became an accepted part of the industry. Sure there have been (and will be) plenty of "dodgy" deaths in wrestling, violent or otherwise, but surely you can see that the bodybuilding-obsessed, working-when-hurt, steroid-taking, coke-snorting 80's has contributed to a lot of early deaths.

[Loki]

It seems that a lot of people here have decided the the terrible events of one psychotic episode can erase all of the other things a person does in his life. I understand that, but I personally feel that it's an over-reaction. If it turns out that Benoit had a mental breakdown leading to a psychotic fit in which he murdered his wife, then it's some way away from him suddenly being revealed as a serial killer or lifelong paedophile or something.His decision to take his own life and that of his son was obviously one that he considered at length. I can't ever imagine making that decision, but then again I can't being to imagine what it would be like to be in that position, to face leaving a mentally and physically disabled child without parents for the rest of his life, without his primary carers. I doubt many of us have ever had to face anything like Benoit faced last Saturday, and I'm honest enough to say that I honestly don't know what I would have thought or done.I'm not condoning the taking of lives, but trying to understand and empathise with a man who by all accounts has lived his life in the most upstanding way.

[Benno]

*edited, sending forms to ucas, going to uni for 3 years, coming out educated, THEN i'm posting.

Edited June 28, 2007 by Benno

[Loki]

If you can't discuss in a educated manner, Benno, please don't bother posting at all.

[Psygnosis]

Little more TV Updates for you.

 

Debra will be on Hannity and Colmes tonight at 2am dicussing the health and safety of Pro Wrestlers, and drug usage.

 

The O'Reilly Factor - Bill blames Nancy Benoit for "not seeing this coming"

 

Scarborough County on MSNBC - Very good 11 minute dicussion on the Story [A link to Part 2 will show up at the end]

 

Fox News interviews Bret Hart last night

[Guest Ice Chiller]

Totally sickened by this. I have no respect for Chris Benoit at all anymore. For me, murdering your family negates everything you have done in the past. He obviously wasn't in his right mind, I don't think anybody who murders their family are, but sadly that doesn't make one bit of difference to me. He is a lowlife. I don't want to get in an argument with people who still want to respect him, I've had plenty of those on other forums, so I'll leave it at that. Sickened.

[Loki]

Some very interesting insights into the life of a family with a Fragile X sufferer, as sent in to PWTorch:

I have been a physical therapist for 12 years and in private practice for five. I deal a lot with children with fragile x, autism, autistic spectrum disorders (asperger's, PDD, etc.), and ADHD. In my experiences, these children are very difficult to deal with. They tend to display irrational impulsivity and other sociopathic behaviors. They often have motor development issues and self stimulating behaviors (repetitive noise making, head banging, etc.). They definitely require constant attention and supervision. This is not to say that Chris Benoit's son had symptoms to this extreme but this factor can not be underestimated when trying to understand this horrific tragedy.The strain this sort of special needs child places on a family is immeasurable. Then when you combine the facts that Chris Benoit had the stigma of being a small man in a big man's world and his child was grossly undersized, it is easy to see the emotional and psychological toll his son's condition must have taken on him.

I work at Lakeview NeuroRehabilitation Center in New Hampshire. We are a residential brain-injury facility and deal with many forms of birth defect including Fragile X Syndrome (FXS). I can tell you from experience that a child having severe FXS is never a happy ending for the suffering family. Most provide home care until age 8-10 until severe behavioral problems force the families into residential care. The costs associated with this type of care start in the $150,000 per year range, with the most minimal amount of supervision. More likely, (based upon my existing patients) this child would have needed 1:1 care 18hrs. / day. At my facility that's close to $300k per year. Given that Benoit probably had insurance, (I can't imagine he didn't) he would have still needed to kick in 10% - 40% of the bill until Daniel reached the age of 21. At that time, adults with FXS become emancipated from their parents and go on to Medicade. Typically, they remain at these types of facilities for the rest of their lives.Beyond the financial burden, the grief support system for the parents is often ignored. MOST Special Needs parents can't handle the stress that a child with Fragile X Syndrome brings to a relationship. Most divorce and many abandon the child into the state's welfare system. And please before you judge, you've probably never looked down that dark tunnel and seen that there's no light at the end. The despair felt by many parents is simply overwhelming. Add in the whole steroid component and...well. We're right here, where we are now, wondering what went wrong and why it didn't get stopped before it happened.I wish that this tragedy could have been avoided. I know that I will miss the Wrestler, Chris "the Canadian Crippler" Benoit. I can understand the loss and anger felt by the families of the Benoits. But before we paint Chris Benoit with such broad strokes lets look at why this senseless tragedy occurred and how we can stop it from happening again.

Sober and informed thoughts there.

[Benno]

right then, i'm back, feeling educated and ready to post to the standard set by great men like loki.honestly my thoughts on the entire situation, right now, while the situation is still fresh, i can't imagine watching a chris benoit match and enjoying it. it just feels dirty. maybe that will change in a few months when this has settled down, afterall, there are plenty of unsavoury charactors in wrestling history and i'm pretty sure i've enjoyed matches worked or booked by rapists, pedofiles, wife beaters, drug addicts, even killers if the snuka stories are true.as for the reasons behind whats happened, benoits state of mind etc etc, i think we're all really still hoping for an excuse to hang onto, so we can rationalise whats happened. i dont think anbody here wants to accept that the guy most of us idolised and felt we knew just because we saw him on tv and heard second hand stories from his friends, has done this. i still believe regardless of whether its drugs, a psychotic episode, roid rage or whatever comes out as what kicked it off, you can't get away from the fact chris benoit did this and still should be held accountable.as for the aftermath, well the media is clearly sensationalising the roid rage part of this with little evidence and i just LOVE that there are news outlets and tabloids here in this country that are claiming he did this with the crossface. BUT if it all casts light on the horrrific nature of the wrestling buisness and about the drugs, the shitty schedule and their status as "independant contractors" then i'm all for it.Honestly though, i think its all just going to die down and nothing will really change, but i hope i'm wrong.

[stewdogg]

Benoit could have afforded to put his son in that home, even $300,000 I'm sure he could afford that.