Good riddance Jones. Aspinall now undisputed.

[wandshogun09]

6 hours ago, Dai said:

I think it is fair to say GSP did the exact same things Jones did, and only came back when he knew it was a weak champion there (nothing wrong with that, either). 

Nah. I said myself that the GSP situation started very similarly to the Jones one. GSP came back to challenge Bisping while Whittaker was interim champ. That’s where the similarities end. GSP won the title from Bisping on November 4th 2017, he vacated it on December 7th 2017. He held the belt for 34 days. He never trolled anyone, he never tweeted a thousand times trying to play down or discredit Whittaker, he wasn’t throwing out a bunch of names angling to fight anyone but Whittaker next and he didn’t hold up the division. He was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis, didn’t wanna hold the belt hostage so he vacated it and announced his retirement, just over a month after the Bisping fight. 

Compare that to what Jones did in his 838 day HW title reign. It’s nowhere near exactly the same. Jones won a vacant title off Gane, then the silly Stipe fight got booked, then Jones got injured delaying the fight another whole year and by the time it eventually happened Aspinall had won the interim belt and defended it. The Stipe fight still went ahead for some reason, even though Aspinall was by far the more deserving challenger. Jones got his ‘big win’ and then spent the next seven months or so flat out refusing to fight Aspinall but also not committing to retiring and holding onto the belt. Granted, the UFC shoulders a lot of blame for letting that go on as well. But despite Jones fans wanting to blame it all on the UFC and absolve Jones of any responsibility, there was nothing stopping Jones retiring at any time during all this nonsense. He could’ve announced it any time he wanted and it would’ve forced/allowed the UFC to act and move the division on a lot sooner. Just like GSP did in 2017. Just like Khabib did in 2020. Dana didn’t like it when those guys retired but what could he do? If they’re publicly saying they’re done, the division has to move along. Jones didn’t do that. He was deliberately being noncommittal and if Dana is to be believed (yeah I know), at some point they met the number Jones was asking for and Jones agreed to the fight, only to then backtrack and decline it. He was playing games to hold onto that belt as long as possible. I suspect he was gonna try to keep it until he surpassed Cain’s record as longest reigning Heavyweight champ. Think he was only 60 days off breaking it or something like that when he finally retired. Which would’ve been a pathetic and hollow accolade to cap off an equally pathetic and hollow ‘reign’ as champion. It’s easy to have a long reign when you fight once every 18 months or so.

So yeah, the GSP and Jones comparison holds no weight with me. The situations started almost identically, I’ll give you that. But the way both handled it after that was completely opposite. Like I said, GSP had relinquished the belt and retired just 34 days after winning it. It wasn’t ideal but the division as a whole really didn’t suffer for it, they were able to crack on and Whittaker’s interim belt got upgraded to undisputed when he beat Yoel Romero. In contrast, Jones beat Stipe on November 16th 2024, that was his last fight. He then piss arsed about for 217 DAYS before finally skulking off into retirement. That’s the difference. And as bad a look as this is now for Jones, it’s gonna look even worse if he comes back to fight anyone but Aspinall after all this carry on.

And I know I’m rambling but one last thing. I get the point that years from now, most fans won’t care about all this. Fine. We already see that most don’t care about context now. Most fans now don’t even know how good Frankie Edgar was, they don’t know how huge Fedor’s wins over prime Nogueira and Cro Cop were, fuck, I even see fans today playing down Aldo’s legacy because they only know him as the guy who loses to mid level guys like Bautista and Zahabi. Opinions of fans who can’t be arsed to dig deeper than skimming through records on Wikipedia mean nothing to me. People will still rate Jones as the GOAT and act like it’s a fact that can’t be disputed regardless. I think that’s bollocks though. And while the voices might be small in number, there’ll always be people pointing out that he went out embarrassingly avoiding Aspinall. Might not make a difference in the big picture, won’t affect his bank balance and all that but it’s always gonna be a big dirty stain on his legacy to people who know what went down. He might not care but it’s the way it is. Incredible Light Heavyweight. The best ever at 205. His Heavyweight run was absolutely fucking worthless though and if that’s the final chapter of his career and the last memory we have of him, it does diminish his overall legacy to some degree. 

Edited June 23, 2025 by wandshogun09

[JakeRobertsParoleOfficer]

Too many issues surrounding Jones for me to consider him the GOAT and that's excluding rhe fact he is clearly a bad human being:

1. He never faced a guy he didn't have an advantage over age, physically or skills etc 

2. Number of dodgy decisions on his favour 

3. Multiple PED busts

4. The 2 biggest threats in the HW division in Francis and Tom he ran from

5. Last legit outstanding performance was 2015 (10 years ago)

Never faced a fighter the calbire of:

GSP, Silva, Co Cop, Overeem, Liddell

Talented.....defo.....but most definitely overrated 

 

 

 

 

 

[Carbomb]

3 hours ago, JakeRobertsParoleOfficer said:

Too many issues surrounding Jones for me to consider him the GOAT and that's excluding rhe fact he is clearly a bad human being:

1. He never faced a guy he didn't have an advantage over age, physically or skills etc 

Your other points I agree with, but this one is a little unfair - he's got the longest reach in MMA, so everyone he faces is immediately at a disadvantage. As for a skills advantage, I can't really think of anyone at LHW who matched him for skills that he ducked. HW, yes - but not 205. 

Ultimately, if you are one of the best ever (which he was), almost everyone you face is automatically going to be not as good as you - and that's not his fault.

3 hours ago, JakeRobertsParoleOfficer said:

Never faced a fighter the calbire of:

GSP, Silva, Co Cop, Overeem, Liddell

Talented.....defo.....but most definitely overrated 

I don't know - he beat Machida, Shogun, Rampage, Rashad, Belfort, Cormier, Gustafsson; a lot of those guys are comparable. And the ones you mentioned were either not comparable in size, or their careers were in their twilights by the time Jones was at his peak, so it wouldn't have been a fair comparison. He could only face those in front of him.

 

Don't misunderstand me: I agree that Jones is a piece of shit, and he has sullied his career with the bullshit at HW, but I don't think those particular points can be used against him.

[jimufctna24]

3 hours ago, JakeRobertsParoleOfficer said:

5. Last legit outstanding performance was 2015 (10 years ago)

I would say 2017 (Cormier rematch) or 2018 (Gusty rematch) personally.

3 hours ago, JakeRobertsParoleOfficer said:

2. Number of dodgy decisions on his favour 

 

The first Gusty bout and the Santos bouts were close calls, but not dodgy decisions.

Reyes should have got the nod against him though imo. 

3 hours ago, JakeRobertsParoleOfficer said:

Never faced a fighter the calbire of:

GSP, Silva, Co Cop, Overeem, Liddell

Not sure I would rate Liddell as a better fighter than Shogun or Cormier.

Anyway, GSP is still the GOAT in my eyes. It's his career that impresses me most.

Edited June 25, 2025 by jimufctna24

[wandshogun09]

1 hour ago, Carbomb said:

Your other points I agree with, but this one is a little unfair - he's got the longest reach in MMA, so everyone he faces is immediately at a disadvantage. As for a skills advantage, I can't really think of anyone at LHW who matched him for skills that he ducked. HW, yes - but not 205. 

Yeah, I fucking loathe Jones but even I’m not gonna pick apart his 205 run. And on the size thing, people forget now but 205 was a smaller man’s division in the pre-Jones era. There really weren’t many monster Light Heavyweights around back then. I remember people going on like Tito Ortiz and Forrest Griffin were huge 205ers at the time. They were considered big for the weight class. Jones kind of ushered that bigger man’s era in at LHW. Then you had the likes of Gustafsson, Reyes etc come along. To this day there aren’t many 205ers who are as big physically as Jones. But for all his faults and fuck ups, and we know there are many, he never had an issue making 205 as far as I remember. If you can make the weight consistently and comfortably then it’s all fair game and any physical advantages you might have over the rest of the division is really tough shit and for them to figure out. 

For all the slagging off I give Jones, you won’t see me playing down his 205 run. Yeah, he had a couple of lacklustre performances towards the end, a couple of close decisions which you wouldn’t have expected to be so close and that Reyes fight should’ve been Jones first proper loss. But overall, he put a streak together at 205 that probably won’t ever be beaten. You can pick apart any fighter’s record with the benefit of hindsight if you really want to. But whether we like it or not, Jones is the greatest Light Heavyweight of all time. He beat the best that division had to offer, year after year after year. Look back at his 2011 for example. He went 4-0 that year and he didn’t just win four fights. He submitted Ryan Bader who was undefeated at the time, a month later he absolutely demolished Shogun to become the UFC champion, he subbed Rampage in the September and then choked Machida completely unconscious in December. Insane year. And that’s just one year. Then you add in wins over Cormier who was beating everyone else at the time, Gustafsson who matched him in size and he wrecked him in the rematch, Teixeira who was on a huge winning streak at the time and thought to be a real threat going in, Rashad who was a former teammate and knew him better than any previous opponent, Belfort around the time he was juicing up to the eyeballs and wasn’t the shrivelled mess he became post-TRT ban. 

I always bang on about context when it comes to fighter’s records. Not even aiming this at JRPO but I see so many fans these days talking down past fighters, pulling up their losses or downgrading their wins and stuff and you can tell it’s all based off just looking up their record on Wikipedia or Tapology or whatever. You can tell which ones don’t know what they’re on about pretty quick. It becomes evident fast that they often don’t know who know the names on the record are and why wins over them meant something. These kind of fans will look at Jones record and genuinely think Shogun or Rashad were some random bums Jones padded his record with. Because they’ll look at those guys records and base it off how they did at the end of their careers when they were shot to shit. Jones never beat the version of Shogun who lost to Ihor Potieria or the version of Rashad who lost to sodding Sam Alvey. These were legit big wins for Jones at the time.

1 hour ago, jimufctna24 said:

I would say 2017 (Cormier rematch) or 2018 (Gusty rematch) personally.

Yeah, they were the last two times we saw peak Jon Jones. But I will say this, there are clouds over both fights. The Cormier rematch later got overturned to a No Contest because Jones got popped by USADA. Still an incredible performance and I think even Cormier has said he still counts it as a loss regardless. But as is often the case with Jones, there’s that grey cloud over it. And the Gustafsson rematch had to be moved from Vegas to California just days before the show because of dodginess with Jones drug tests again. Kind of sums him up in a way that arguably the two best performances/wins of his career have these weird asterisks attached.

As for the whole GOAT thing, if you have Jones as your #1 I’m not gonna argue. I don’t agree but whatever. Even with all the controversy, it was some run at 205. But I don’t get the way people talk about it as if it’s not even up for debate. That’s the bit I find most silly. People just say it now as if it’s a concrete fact. I was watching Morning Kombat yesterday with Luke Thomas and Brian Campbell and Campbell was saying something criticising Jones but then casually threw in “Even though Jon Jones is the greatest fighter of all time…” then carried on with his point. It’s like it’s been parroted so many times now people just go with it as if it’s an irrefutable fact, as if there are no other fighters in the history of MMA you can even make a case for. I think for a lot of people it’s because he never officially had a proper loss. That’s impressive in itself obviously but I think too much weight is being put on that. Is Rocky Marciano the best Heavyweight boxer just because he went undefeated? Is Floyd Mayweather the overall GOAT because he never lost? Of course not. Again, not saying you can’t make a case for Jones if you can overlook the PED flags, him getting an iffy decision over Reyes and him shamelessly ducking Aspinall at the end. Fine. If that’s your GOAT that’s your problem. But I don’t think ‘well Jones is the GOAT’ is an open and shut case at all. No matter how many times people repeat it, I’m not buying it. 

Edited June 25, 2025 by wandshogun09

[Egg Shen]

Jon Jones went on a barmy tweet and delete spree over the last day so, the guy is a mess.

[Gooner]

High risk, low reward. I understand why Jones didn't fight Aspinall, I never expected it unless he was paid a kings ransom to make it happen. The whole retirement thing I don't believe, I expect he will be back in the octagon within the next couple of years. I'm not sure where I'd put him on the all time GOAT list, but he is definitely in the conversation for being at the very top. I would imagine at 205lbs he goes down as the absolute best. 

[wandshogun09]

9 minutes ago, Gooner said:

High risk, low reward. I understand why Jones didn't fight Aspinall, I never expected it unless he was paid a kings ransom to make it happen. 

According to Helwani (who grates on me but he’s not known to report bullshit), Jones threw out numbers and the UFC met those numbers. Jones agreed to the fight then did a 180 and decided to retire. I wasn’t sure how much of that I believed but Dana also said this weekend that the fight was a done deal at one point and then it was off. When Dana and Helwani are saying the same thing it’s probably true because those two wouldn’t be able to agree that grass is green.

And yeah, I understand his reasoning for not wanting the fight. He’s scared shitless of losing because being undefeated and ‘the GOAT’ is his whole personality and identity. A loss would shatter that and he’s smart enough to know that Aspinall poses the highest risk of that. But I don’t think the rewards would’ve been low. Not financially anyway. He just really mustn’t fancy his chances of winning because if he did, we’d be gearing up for the fight now. Or it would’ve already happened months ago.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he comes back either. If Aspinall loses, he’ll probably announce he’s coming out of retirement before Aspinall’s even out of the cage. He’s only retired because of Aspinall. The slimy prick. 

1 hour ago, Egg Shen said:

Jon Jones went on a barmy tweet and delete spree over the last day so, the guy is a mess.

Yep. Can honestly see this head case going full OJ in the next few years. 

[Bus Surfer]

54 minutes ago, wandshogun09 said:

According to Helwani (who grates on me but he’s not known to report bullshit), Jones threw out numbers and the UFC met those numbers. Jones agreed to the fight then did a 180 and decided to retire. I wasn’t sure how much of that I believed but Dana also said this weekend that the fight was a done deal at one point and then it was off. When Dana and Helwani are saying the same thing it’s probably true because those two wouldn’t be able to agree that grass is green.

 

Just to add to this, Helwani also stated that Turki got involved in the money side too, which is probably a good reason as to why they met Jones' number. 

He just didn't think they'd call his bluff, which is how the Ngannou situation unfolded. 

 

Edited June 25, 2025 by Bus Surfer
Can't spell for shit.

[wandshogun09]

20 minutes ago, Bus Surfer said:

Just to add to this, Helwani also stated that Turki got involved in the money side too, which is probably a good reason as to why they met Jones' number. 

He just didn't think they'd call his bluff. He was which is how they Ngannou situation unfolded. 

Yep. I also think part of it dragging on so long is that Jones probably thought if he just kept stalling, Aspinall would eventually get sick of waiting and would take a fight with someone else. Then he’d sit back and hope Aspinall lost so that problem would go away. If it played out like that, which I think is what Jones was hoping, I don’t think he’d have retired at all. Someone else would’ve eliminated the Aspinall problem for him and he would’ve been able to crack on calling out Tim Sylvia or some other relic and trying to dress it up as a legitimate challenge.

I remember when Aspinall had the rematch with Blaydes in Manchester last year, Jones was tweeting non stop and saying he thought Blaydes was gonna win. Then when Aspinall chinned him in a minute, Jones went quiet then popped back up weeks later saying Aspinall hadn’t done anything or beat anyone. Even though he’d literally just bulldozed the guy Jones was picking to beat him!

Three times while typing this post, my phone autocorrected ‘Jones’ to ‘Jokes’. Now I know why they call these things smartphones. Fuck Jon Jokes. 

Edited June 25, 2025 by wandshogun09

[seph]

Hey Jon, how's retirement

(LGT the main site, not Xitler)

 

[ReturnOfTheMack]

https://www.mmafighting.com/2025/7/4/24461741/jon-jones-claims-hes-re-entered-drug-testing-pool-ahead-of-proposed-ufc-white-house-event

 

Jon Jones claims to be back in the UFC testing pool. Fuck sake.

[Carbomb]

Of course the cunt wants to fight at the White House.

[David]

I can see him coming back for that event and fighting someone other than Aspinall. He's dropped the title, so I could see him in some sort of exhibition fight, no doubt against someone he has a better chance of beating. 

Same with McGregor. 

Man, imagine seeing both of them get crushed at the Whitehouse? Throw in Covington losing on Presidential grounds as well, why not?